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OK, I know they are charred, but I have watched the video on JD processes for barrel making and they did not seem to toast them for any length of time. they appear to get steam for the warping phase, and then have flame run up through them, on a conveyor belt.

The reason I ask is that I use JD chips for Scotch. If they are not toasted, then the oak deeper than the char may not have had the conversion necessary for flavors. I supposed the JD would benefit a bit based on the "soak line" they show, but that leaves 2/3 to 3/4 of the oak as just old wood.

I toasted some just to test, but it could be a while before I find any conclusive info.

Didn't get much out of toasting JD chips but I always char them.

Yes JD barrel wood is toasted at 450 for 4 hours before charring. I read something from Brown-Forman cooperage once that described the process for their Jack Daniels barrels. Cant find it now. They claim to be one of the only cooperages that so carefully toasts their wood as a seperate process from charring.

This is the Brown-Forman web site, lots of info on JD barrels can be found here. http://www.brownformancooperages.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Thanks! I guess toasting them more is a total waste of time after that amount of heat and duration. I did put a char back on some of my last batch.

We have a local micro distillery in my area that buys used wine barrels and re-chars them by taking the outer ring off, removing the ends and using a torch, then reassembles and uses them on his whiskey. He likes the used barrels that were used with red wine as he feels some of the fruit flavor comes through and gives his whiskey a little more pronounced flavor.

To see if there could be a bennie for re-toasting, just cut one and look at the coloration of the wood. When we do reworks on used spirits barrels, we usually scrape them down then just do a re-char. We do not do any re-char/ toast for used wine barrels since it will tend to bring out nasty burnt flavors on wine barrels.

So far I only have access to the commercial wood chip products (smoking chips) - these are already shredded pretty thin. For my untrained eye to detect a difference I think I would need to get my hands on a complete stave.

Me just picking up a handful of chips and hoping to discern a difference is probably too random.

Now, I assume that if a stave can be checked and determined to benefit from toasting, the chips would likewise.

scout wrote:To see if there could be a bennie for re-toasting, just cut one and look at the coloration of the wood. When we do reworks on used spirits barrels, we usually scrape them down then just do a re-char. We do not do any re-char/ toast for used wine barrels since it will tend to bring out nasty burnt flavors on wine barrels.

Interesting as I only have the one reference by the micro distillery in my area who uses wine barrels for his whiskey!

Bushman wrote:

scout wrote:To see if there could be a bennie for re-toasting, just cut one and look at the coloration of the wood. When we do reworks on used spirits barrels, we usually scrape them down then just do a re-char. We do not do any re-char/ toast for used wine barrels since it will tend to bring out nasty burnt flavors on wine barrels.

Interesting as I only have the one reference by the micro distillery in my area who uses wine barrels for his whiskey!

I've never seen a wine barrel (first run) that was charred, in fact the four wineries I've made barrels for specify a light toast for white wine barrels, a medium toast for most other wines. In the world of Scotch no used wine barrel is ever charred. Bourbon's are where you find char used the most in the cooper world.

This is from Kelvin Cooperage, makers of fine wine barrels : "We are committed to working with winemakers to deliver exactly the barrel you want. This commitment is evident in our attention to detail. We are always interested in trying new techniques or materials at winemakers’ requests. We are also always interested in receiving feedback on our barrels’ performance.

We select the finest, tight-grain, slow growth American oak (Quercus Alba) from Central Kentucky, Southwest Kentucky and Minnesota. The oak is air-dried in Kentucky for at least two years and exposed to both winter and summer weather. Our barrels are bent and toasted over oak fires to customers’ specifications using traditional methods. Our slow toast penetrates deeply without blistering or scorching allowing the barrel to impart subtle oak overtones.

The heads are assembled using wooden dowels in the old Cognac style. Barrels are available with or without toasted heads. Six galvanized hoops are fitted to maintain maximum structural integrity. Consistent with our commitment to quality, rigorous quality control inspections are conducted at every step of the process from wood selection to air and water testing of the finished barrel."

This is from Demptos Cooperage, who sell all over Europe.
"Watch out for retoasting! Anyone who wants to recondition a used barrel should know that retoasting does not give satisfactory results. All the substances in the 5 liters of wine absorbed by the staves of a 225-liter barrel are burnt and converted into compounds that give the wine tarry and burnt rubber odors, collectively known as "burnt character".

This is why we scrape down to fresh wood if the reconditioning order desires re-toasting or toasting and charring. Of course everyone has the right to do it their way.