Home Distiller

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:07 pm**

Hey guys, what do you think of this? Any thoughts or previous experience with similar would be greatly appreciated.

So I'm thinking of doing an Apple Schnapps. Now from my understanding, we've got the traditional German style schnapps or eau de vie which is the fermented fruit wash distilled for a dry (not sweet) distillate with some mellow background character...say a white and light brandy if you will.

Then there's liqueurs which can be made by macerating fruit for a few weeks, then diluting and combining with a sugar syrup for a sweet and syrupy product.

And lastly, there's the store bought American style which is usually some form of cordial or essence which has been combined with a neutral to make their sweet, yet thin, almost strongly flavoured vodka like product.

On an international forum, we've had some discussions on using a natural stevia sweetening agent for flavoured vodkas. From this I'm thinking of fermenting a heap of apple juice, then distilling to make a neutral-ish (say one run with 6 plates) which still has that subtle fruit character, then soak some apple in that for a week or two, and maybe polish it up with a touch of stevia to finish. Looking at a 20%abv product, not the traditional 35-40%.

The cheapest I can get fresh pressed apple juice is about $2 a litre directly from the manufacturer, which is a bit high. So I was thinking of going the clear processed stuff from Aldi for $1/litre...not ideal, but I'm not making drinking cider either, just distilling. I don't have the time to look into bulk apples and pressing them, so definitely a bought juice option.

From what I have researched, the juice yields an SG of 1.050. I would really like to avoid any added sugar due to the burn it creates, but am not completely opposed to the smallest amount if I want to take it to 1.060 (which I am happy with, same as a normal AG mash)...I don't want any burn as there will be no filtering and limited aging.

I'm also thinking of a single pass on the column with 6 plates. I'm thinking 3 or 4 will not quite be what I'm aiming for as I use that config for whiskey, so thinking 6 (without packed section), should give a neutral as such but still with that apple character lightly in the background.

I would then use that distillate to soak some Pink Lady apple in, then dilute, and age for a bit (as should be done for fruit distillates), and to finish it off, bottle at 20%abv and sweeten to taste with natural stevia additive.

Over to you lot

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:39 pm**

Brendan, sounds like your out to make a sweet appley American style schnapps cordial, but with some real integrity using all natural processes. I like it. great idea. That is something that could catch hold with folks who like a sweet apple bomb but dont appreciate the bastardization we call schnapps here which must make the Germans think we're total assholes.

Your ideas sound spot on, 1 run of straight cider to hold on to flavors. careful with the heads cut, the apple is all up front. Macerating apples I havent done but cant see why it shouldnt work. Why stevia and not sugar? saving your pancreas the insulin response bang? haha.

commercial ciders, especially cheap ones (aldi) are loaded with sulfites to keep them from goin off. Not sure what that will do in your ferment or through distillation. Ive never used anything but fresh apples or fresh cider from a local mill before I built my press. Do you have any apple orchards near you where you can bring some jugs and load up right off the press?

Keep this thread alive. Im curious to see what you come up with. I enjoy a good dessert drink like this, done proper, natural.

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:48 pm**

PS: this thread made me pour a snifter of my apple brandy. You know, aged up a good long time on toasted and lightly charred oak, apple brandy is very sweet, caramelly apple delicious. You could pull the sweetness out of caramelized oak, like this, and macerate apples and bring it down to whatever abv your after? Just another idea. A good Calvados is very much a dessert drink. Digestif, or whatever you wanna call it.

Posted: **Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:19 am**

See Jimbo, this is why I like you. In one post you've nailed exactly what I'm trying to achieve!

I don't have access to any orchards...there is a juice pressing plant but the cheapest they'll sell for is $2/litre, whereas the clear stuff is $1/litre...but I do worry with that how good it will turn out. It's a difference of $40 for a 40 litre wash, or $80 (until I find something better

).

The stevia discussions came about from a commercial distiller using it to sweeten macerated fruit vodkas. The advantage being that it stays a thin clear liquid, rather than cloudy and syrupy, which can happen with most sugar additions (unless you were referring to just a simple dissolving sugar addition)...

I'll keep it up to date, will prob try the clear juice...and keep networking for fresh apple juice

Posted: **Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:36 am**

Hi Brendan
I often make apple ???? Brandy ? Rum lol
I use 12- 18 liters of aldi apple juice and have used 2 to 3kg of brown sugar.
I run it though my VM reflux and make a light apple ???? Brandy rum ???
It tastes good whatever it is

I leave it white mostly but have oaked with success.
Also have spiced with clove nutmeg and cinnamon which is good but very easy overpowered.
Next I want to try the apple blackcurrent juice

Posted: **Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:40 am**

PS.
I recylce all dunder add molasses and make a nice second gen apple rum.
I don't think that is what our after but a great way to reuse that apple juice.

Posted: **Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:52 am**

Thanks meatheadinc. Although it's not exactly what I'm after, it's nice to know from your experience that the clear apple juice from Aldi ferments alright.

If I was making cider (fermented apple beer for the Americans

), I would definitely stick with the fresh cloudy apple juice only, but was hoping I could get away with the clear stuff for distilling purposes and still get some flavour out of it.

Would be good to do both and compare down the track, but yes, I am definitely looking at a white product here not aged on oak.

Posted: **Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:57 am**

Brendan wrote:
If I was making cider (fermented apple beer for the Americans )

No.

We call fermented alcoholic cider 'hard cider', fresh pressed cloudy stuff you'd get at an orchard 'cider' and the clear stuff from a factory sold in the grocery 'apple juice'

Posted: **Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:54 am**

meatheadinc wrote: I run it though my VM reflux and make a light apple ???? Brandy rum ???

Tell me more

please.

Posted: **Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:14 am**

Brendan listen to Jimbo on this one keep it pure no sugar if you can. I ran a Concord grape/ blackberry brandy over diluted and added 2lbs of sugar and shot myself in the foot. It's a bit heady but mellowing the only draw back is the sugar bite on the end that you can't escape, it's got a few more months to age but that sugar bite is a bitch. Keep posting on this thread and good luck. If you run enough give the light oak a chance it adds that natural vanilla flavor and a hint of color.

Posted: **Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:11 pm**

Thanks Melloman for the input. I won't be adding any sugar at all.

I have got about 45L of juice which measures 1.050 (as expected).

I put a yeast starter on last night with SafSpirit Fruit distillers yeast, and will be looking to pitch it in a couple of hours

At the moment, I will not be doing any oaking as I'm after a different type of product, but we'll see...anything can happen

Posted: **Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:03 pm**

ah yes, meant to mention before. Ive noticed too that commercial apple juice is always about 1.050, watered down, while fresh pressed cider varies from 1.060 to 1.070. Just another reason to use the real deal

But in a pinch,.... love the one with youre with, as the song goes.

Another useless factoid while Im typing,.... sweet dessert variety apples dont always have more sugar than other more tart varieties, they just have less malic acid.

carry on.

Posted: **Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:24 pm**

Jimbo wrote:Ive noticed too that commercial apple juice is always about 1.050, watered down, while fresh pressed cider varies from 1.060 to 1.070.

Thanks Jimbo, I noticed that last night when I pressed a few fresh apples to make a starter and found the SG to be higher. But I had researched that bought apple juice was 1.050, so I was expecting that and wasn't disappointed.

I'll see what I can get out of it...i'd rather have low yield, then add sugar

Posted: **Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:01 pm**

yes definitely dont add sugar.

1.050 is ok.

Posted: **Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:10 am**

So, strange occurrences with this so far...I'm getting SFA (sweet F all) from the airlock?

So I made up a starter last night, pitched the yeast into it and sat it on the stir plate overnight. Had a good 14 hours and was frothing up good in the morning, so I know I had a flask full of viable yeast which would have been reproducing all night...

Pitched into the apple juice today into 2x fermenters of 23L each, and after 12 hours I'm getting a bloop in the airlock at about 1 a minute...never seen that before on any other wash.

The temp is fine (25C / 77F), and the fermenters are completely sanitary and air tight.

I've been reading about potassium sorbate in apple juice and how it doesn't kill yeast but doesn't allow it to reproduce...I shouldn't have a problem here as I pitched a pretty damn healthy starter into the fermenters.

The fact I am getting that bubble tells me that I'm producing alcohol, albeit slowly, and normally I'd suggest to someone to add some more yeast, but on this occasion I know that I pitched a healthy volume of distillers yeast (SafSpirit Fruit). I had also considered adding some DAP (yeast nutrient) at the start, but ended up opting for the completely natural ferment.

I'm not going to open it yet as is generally recommended (to not open) with cider washes. I think it's just that I'm used to seeing those bubbles smash at one a second on other washes, but the science head inside me knows that everything is fine in the wash and to just leave it alone...

If the activity is the same in a couple of days, I will probably open each very quickly and take an SG reading to measure the progress.

Posted: **Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:36 am**

Have also considered checking the pH, as the ingredients list 99.7% apple juice, and then citric acid...was contemplating the fact of an non-ideal pH range for the yeast...but it's straight out of the bottle and been done many times before?!

Posted: **Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:21 am**

I wish I had some advice for you Brendan. No idea what you got there, and Ive never used grocery cider. Good luck tho. Let us know.

You could try kicking the temp up to 26/30C for a day to kickthe yeast in the ass. Distillers yeast is normally run off at temps like that, altho I dunno about that safspirit fruit. Normally fruits are fermented out pretty cold for a good long time.

Posted: **Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:03 am**

To me my thought is. The difference between an actual schnapps and brandy is. Brandy is usually aged on wood. Where schnapps is white and not aged on oak.

Sory probably has no barring on what you want to make. Just thought I would throw it out there.

Posted: **Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:47 pm**

Yep, definitely agree with you there PP.

Jimbo, I had thought about the temp, but had also found that professional distillers quite often do a cooler and longer ferment for fruit. It is Saccharomyces bayanus, which is commonly used for winemaking, cider, and even rum...so although I haven't used the strain before, didn't expect a difference. Pretty sure Saccharomyces bayanus is a hybrid of 3 yeasts that includes Saccharomyces cerevisiae anyway, andI think EC-1118 is meant to be banyanus too (but usually isn't)...

Anyway, it'll be a good learning experience and may help others. I'm just going to leave it, and check the SG after 2 or 3 days to make sure it is progressing...I'm not worried if it takes several weeks, as long as it finishes.

Really need to get me some fresh pressed juice/cider!

Posted: **Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:06 pm**

Brendan wrote:
Really need to get me some fresh pressed juice/cider!

If ya start lookin around when youre driving, into peoples yards and such, you'll discover apple trees are everywhere (and the occasional sunbathing beauty

.) Make notes, and make friends. Folks are 9 times out of 10 delighted for you to take them (the apples) away before they fall, kill their grass and make a buggy stinky mess.

Posted: **Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:41 pm**

Well alright, alright, alright! We have a false alarm...went down and checked the fermenters this morning, and they are firing after 24 hours!

They are pumping with the expected few bubbles every few seconds, just had the longest lag time that I had seen, and that's with a strong starter...i'd hate to see what happens if i'd just sprinkled some dried yeast on top

Sorry for the alarm guys, just wanted to talk it through...i'm happy now that it's firing and it's only at 24C, so it will be a nice cool ferment (which, according to research, helps to preserve the fruity flavours in the distillate).

Posted: **Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:16 pm**

Brendan wrote:Well alright, alright, alright! We have a false alarm...went down and checked the fermenters this morning, and they are firing after 24 hours!

They are pumping with the expected few bubbles every few seconds, just had the longest lag time that I had seen, and that's with a strong starter...i'd hate to see what happens if i'd just sprinkled some dried yeast on top
.

If you made a starter with dry yeast you are not using it right.

You make dry yeast in to a slurry with sterile water between 69F-105F (21C-41C) depending on the type of yeast and the manufacture.

Take the water and add 1/4 cup (50 ml) per teaspoon (5 gr) of yeast.
Sprinkle the yeast evenly over the top of the water and let it sit for 15 minute then stir it in and let it sit for 15 minutes.
You should be seeing some activity now.
Add the slurry to the fermenter.

The only time you make a starter from dry yeast is if it is expired (and a few years expired) or of you saved some slurry from a previous fermentation and need a bigger population of yeast.
Otherwise making a starter from dry yeast will give you the lag you experienced.
Dry yeast is dried with nutrients, amino acids, and other foods that give it a boost when rehydrated properly.
But when you make a starter you use up that food stock and the yeast lags when adding to the big batch.
I personally think it is wiser to have the water cooler than hotter. I generally use 85F/30C water unless its a lager yeast.

http://www.fermentis.com/wp-content/upl ... iFRUIT.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://www.brewwithfermentis.com/tips-t ... hydration/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://valleyvintner.com/Merchant2/Data ... MPAGNE.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://www.lalvinyeast.com/faq.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://www.lalvinyeast.com/images/libra ... _Yeast.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Posted: **Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:28 pm**

plaztikjezuz wrote:
If you made a starter with dry yeast you are not using it right.

The only time you make a starter from dry yeast is if it is expired (and a few years expired) or of you saved some slurry from a previous fermentation and need a bigger population of yeast.
Otherwise making a starter from dry yeast will give you the lag you experienced.

Or, if you are pitching into a cider wash of potassium sorbate

You need a much larger amount of viable cells, so I chose that method over using 5 times as much yeast...

But that aside, how does a starter facilitate an extended lag period? I always throw a starter on a stir plate with a watered down amount of the same wash (1.020) that it will be going into...I find it always reduces the lag period, aside from this fruit juice wash, so i'm curious as to the science behind what you suggest...?

Posted: **Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:21 pm**

Brendan wrote:
plaztikjezuz wrote:
If you made a starter with dry yeast you are not using it right.

The only time you make a starter from dry yeast is if it is expired (and a few years expired) or of you saved some slurry from a previous fermentation and need a bigger population of yeast.
Otherwise making a starter from dry yeast will give you the lag you experienced.
Or, if you are pitching into a cider wash of potassium sorbate You need a much larger amount of viable cells, so I chose that method over using 5 times as much yeast...

But that aside, how does a starter facilitate an extended lag period? I always throw a starter on a stir plate with a watered down amount of the same wash (1.020) that it will be going into...I find it always reduces the lag period, aside from this fruit juice wash, so i'm curious as to the science behind what you suggest...?

If you need more dry yeast you just buy more and rehydrate it. The whole point of using it is ease of use. aka no starter.
but hey if it works for you who am I to tell you otherwise.
I just wanted to let you know what I was told.

My latest wash. Made it yesterday.
6 gallons
10# sugar
1.5# molasses
.5# Piloncillo
45 grams Wyeast yeast nutrient
15 grams DAP
10 grams Red Star Pasteur Champagne

Pitched the yeast yesterday at 3 pm. Today I took a gravity reading and I had lost 47 points by 6 pm. I was not surprised, the water, it was getting blow out of the air lock.

I dry pitched. The wash was 87F (30C) when I added the yeast. Fermentation had started by 9 pm, so I had a 6 hour lag.

Fermentation was so vigorous in the first 24 hours that I lost close a half gallon of volume to evaporation.

Posted: **Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:31 pm**

plaztikjezuz wrote:
Brendan wrote:
plaztikjezuz wrote:
If you made a starter with dry yeast you are not using it right.

The only time you make a starter from dry yeast is if it is expired (and a few years expired) or of you saved some slurry from a previous fermentation and need a bigger population of yeast.
Otherwise making a starter from dry yeast will give you the lag you experienced.
Or, if you are pitching into a cider wash of potassium sorbate You need a much larger amount of viable cells, so I chose that method over using 5 times as much yeast...

But that aside, how does a starter facilitate an extended lag period? I always throw a starter on a stir plate with a watered down amount of the same wash (1.020) that it will be going into...I find it always reduces the lag period, aside from this fruit juice wash, so i'm curious as to the science behind what you suggest...?
The starter if used on dry yeast uses up the food the yeast is dried with so once rehydrated to be kicking out of the gates. But in a starter which is a much smaller volume the food get consumed and when you add it to the big batch the yeast lags.

Now if you are just adding a little wort to the stir plate like an 30 minutes before you pitch the yeast then you are basically doing what you are supposed to do. But again the sugar in the wort/wash will make rehydration take longer which is why the manufacturer says to use water to rehydrate. I know brewers who rehydrate on a stir plate with water. The add the dry yeast, let it rest for 10 minutes, then make the slurry with a stir bar for 15 to 20 minutes.

If you need more dry yeast you just buy more and rehydrate it. The whole point of using it is ease of use. aka no starter.
but hey if it works for you who am I to tell you otherwise.
I just wanted to let you know what I was told.

My latest wash. Made it yesterday.
6 gallons
10# sugar
1.5# molasses
.5# Piloncillo
45 grams Wyeast yeast nutrient
15 grams DAP
10 grams Red Star Pasteur Champagne

Pitched the yeast yesterday at 3 pm. Today I took a gravity reading and I had lost 47 points by 6 pm. I was not surprised, the water, it was getting blow out of the air lock.

I dry pitched. The wash was 87F (30C) when I added the yeast. Fermentation had started by 9 pm, so I had a 6 hour lag.

Fermentation was so vigorous in the first 24 hours that I lost close a half gallon of volume to evaporation.

Posted: **Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:57 am**

plaztikjezuz wrote:If you need more dry yeast you just buy more and rehydrate it. The whole point of using it is ease of use. aka no starter.
but hey if it works for you who am I to tell you otherwise.
I just wanted to let you know what I was told.

I hear ya brother, thanks. I've heard the same thing to, but never understood why.

I realise that with dry yeasts there is no need as you can just rehydrate them in water, but often thought that there cant be any negative effects to starting them off... I only use distillers dry yeasts, and most of them say to rehydrate in water or a sample of the wort.

I find it handy, especially for AG mashes, as a started yeast has already been chomping on a low gravity version of what it's going into for a few hours, and by the time the mash is down at pitching temp, I find very minimal lag and the whole mash is fermenting strong. Helps to avoid an infection which is a constant battle with AG

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:30 pm**

I'm distilling this right now on the plated column with 6 plates.

I've been taking it off nice and slow at 95%abv, and the smell and taste that's coming with it is incredible!

So far so good, and still planning to soak various apple types at different strengths to see how they add to the flavour and how well they retain that flavour when diluted.

Happy so far!

Posted: **Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:18 pm**

Thought i'd put a few photos and videos up, as I usually do with everything

That's a lot of juice, but it sure was easy

I don't know why I took a video of pouring apple juice, but at least now you know what that looks like

Got a starter going the night before with freshly pressed apple juice, and some SafSpirit Fruit distillers yeast...wanted it to hit the juice running.

And pitched the yeast...easiest 'mash' ever

Posted: **Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:22 pm**

After the 24 hours of inactivity that I was worried about, they were off and running

After a week of a reasonably cool fermentation (24 - 26 deg C), I ran it on the plated column with 6 plates for a high abv but flavourful output.

This video will probably only be interesting for those who don't already have a plated column/flute

Ended up with 1.4L @ 93% abv, and it smells glorious

Posted: **Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:25 pm**

Now for the flavouring part...i'm using Granny Smith apples. Would like to trial with Pink Lady's as well but can't get them at the moment, so i'll see how the granny's go.

I'm trialling between just having the skins, or using small cuts with skin and a bit of the flesh as well.

I have scored the skin to release the whatever's...

And the others are just small chunks, with the skin also scored.

Sat in 50ml of the apple 'eau di vie' @ 93%abv (they are 200ml bottles).

And you can see within half an hour, there is a significant amount of colour coming from the skins only batch.

I then thought to myself, what if I haven't used enough apple and the flavour is not as strong as I would want once diluted...so I then cut up half an apple, but only used the outer flesh close to the skin so that there is a 50/50 skin and flesh ratio, scored the skin as well and added it to another 50ml of the eau di vie. It fit perfectly for that amount too!

Now to leave for a week or so and see how they go.

Home Distiller

Apple Schnapps Concept

Apple Schnapps Concept

Re: Apple Schnapps Concept

Re: Apple Schnapps Concept

Re: Apple Schnapps Concept

Re: Apple Schnapps Concept

Re: Apple Schnapps Concept

Re: Apple Schnapps Concept

Re: Apple Schnapps Concept

Re: Apple Schnapps Concept

Re: Apple Schnapps Concept

Re: Apple Schnapps Concept

Re: Apple Schnapps Concept

Re: Apple Schnapps Concept

Re: Apple Schnapps Concept

Re: Apple Schnapps Concept

Re: Apple Schnapps Concept

Re: Apple Schnapps Concept

Re: Apple Schnapps Concept

Re: Apple Schnapps Concept

Re: Apple Schnapps Concept

Re: Apple Schnapps Concept

Re: Apple Schnapps Concept

Re: Apple Schnapps Concept

Re: Apple Schnapps Concept

Re: Apple Schnapps Concept

Re: Apple Schnapps Concept

Re: Apple Schnapps Concept

Re: Apple Schnapps Concept

Re: Apple Schnapps Concept

Re: Apple Schnapps Concept