SPP Packing

[BrewinBrian44]

From what I’ve read, just rinse with hot water and make sure it’s fully dry before storing it. I spread mine out on a beach towel with a box fan pointed at it. Bone dry by the next morning.

[CopperFiend]

I have always taken my SPP out, rinsed it in the sink with water and then put on a baking tray in the oven to dry it out before storing it in sealed buckets. I left it in the column for a week or so before and it started to smell a bit rank and was still wet!

[shaawnzee]

Does anyone use or think a flow distributor is necessary?

I have a single centering pipe from my mushroom cap above the column. Oleg Selivanenko is recommending a liquid distributor, shown below for this 3" column.

[CopperFiend]

That looks very cool. I do see a decent amount of mine running down the sides of the glass section of my column so maybe this would prevent that missing the vapour stream. I get Azeo at around 4L/Hr so that's fine for me, I suppose if you wanted to maybe go a little faster it would help?

[BrewinBrian44]

Hmm this is an interesting thought. I definitely see some reflux coming down the sides. Not sure if this is a problem or not.

[Salt Must Flow]

I don't know that centering devices are 'necessary'. I've read that since more people have been making all borosilicate columns, it has supposedly been shown that wall affect channeling is not an issue. Even still, I prefer to see 100% of my reflux drop straight down the center of my sight glass onto the packing. I hate seeing reflux run along the wall of sight glasses.

That device is overly complicated and expensive if you ask me. I use a Still Dragon Plate Gasket and do a little cutting on a flattened out piece of copper pipe. Simply install it at the top Tri-Clamp joint of the sight glass.

Still Dragon Plate Gaskets are also handy for packing supports too.

[shaawnzee]

I don't know that centering devices are 'necessary'. I've read that since more people have been making all borosilicate columns, it has supposedly been shown that wall affect channeling is not an issue. Even still, I prefer to see 100% of my reflux drop straight down the center of my sight glass onto the packing. I hate seeing reflux run along the wall of sight glasses.

That device is overly complicated and expensive if you ask me. I use a Still Dragon Plate Gasket and do a little cutting on a flattened out piece of copper pipe. Simply install it at the top Tri-Clamp joint of the sight glass.

Centering Plate.jpg

Still Dragon Plate Gaskets are also handy for packing supports too.
Plate Gasket 01.jpg

Solid info, thank you.

[bitter]

Just got word from the doctor-Gradas

"
Thank you for the information.

We can advise you 6L or 7.2kg of 3.5x3.5 SPP for your column. The maximum power is going to be 3-3.5 kWt during the spirit run
https://doctor-gradus.com/catalog/nasad ... kaya_v_kg/

It’s going to be about 2,7-3,3 liter per hour of 96-96.6 abv alcohol. The range is wide because there are a few things to adjust for the higher-speed collection.
- insulation of the column
- precise power adjustment

"

Unfortunately the price of shipping is as much as the product and likely 25% duty on it for my location form the checking I did.

As much as I want to say just do it. Not sure I can justify that much money if it won't improve performance any. I wonder if they are setting the bar low just so anyone even if not knowing how to run things will surpass there rating.

B

[Iulistoi]

How should you feel the breathing from the column through the SPP packing, easier or harder than with scrubbers?

I built my own SPP from 0.4 mm wire, 3.5 mm diameter, for a 2 inch column, but when you try to blow through the packing it feels quite hard.

If I bring more power when distilling low wine, there is pressure build up and the steam starts to come out from the lid and other jointings. This does not happen when I run mash or wash even at about 2500W.

I regret that I followed the advice of someone here on the forum to make the SPP smaller. It would be better to let them bigger, so being able to bring more power to the column.

[Saltbush Bill]

How should you feel the breathing from the column through the SPP packing, easier or harder than with scrubbers?

but when you try to blow through the packing it feels quite hard.

Ive never run SPP , only copper structured mesh like this.

Everything Ive ever read about packing in a reflux column, regardless of what type of packing, says you need to be able to blow through the column easily. My own experience using reflux stills tells me the same thing.

If I bring more power when distilling low wine, there is pressure build up and the steam starts to come out from the lid and other jointings

Sounds all wrong to me , there should be no pressure in your still at any time. You need to "detune" ( remove the spp) before trying to strip using a packed column, that or build a dedicated stripper, a pot still.
You need to stop stripping that way before an accident happens.
Hopefully a few of the more experienced Reflux Geeks will pipe up with their two bobs worth.

[richard1]

I suspect that you have completely collapsed all the SPP and has become almost like a solid mass. This is the problem with this product in that it has no strength.

Ideally you ought rather consider SS helical coils like as shown below.

[bunny]

I suspect that you have completely collapsed all the SPP and has become almost like a solid mass. This is the problem with this product in that it has no strength.

Ideally you ought rather consider SS helical coils like as shown below.

helical coils.jpg

I have to disagree with you on this point.
In all the glass column videos I have seen, never has there been any "collapsed" spp visible.
Can you point to any video showing differently?

[Salt Must Flow]

If I bring more power when distilling low wine, there is pressure build up and the steam starts to come out from the lid and other jointings. This does not happen when I run mash or wash even at about 2500W.

Exactly what are you using to support your SPP so it doesn't fall into the boiler?

How did you fill the column with your SPP? Are you smacking the side of the column or tamping them down to nestle them in tight or are you simply pouring them in there?

If I recall correctly, the SPP is supposed to be 1/10th to 1/12th the diameter of your column. That would be anywhere from 4.2mm-5mm. 3.5 is smaller than what is generally recommended.

[Iulistoi]

Exactly what are you using to support your SPP so it doesn't fall into the boiler?

A stainless steel scrubber at the buttom.

[Salt Must Flow]

Exactly what are you using to support your SPP so it doesn't fall into the boiler?

A stainless steel scrubber at the buttom.

Is there anything beneath the scrubber to keep it from falling into the boiler or is the scrubber packed so tight that it supports the SPP all by itself? If it is the latter, I would say that could be a big part of the problem. Stainless scrubbers can easily cause flooding when compressed too much. Been there, done that.

If you have a screen or perforated plated supporting the scrubber then those have also been the source of flooding. Been there, done that too.

[Iulistoi]

Exactly what are you using to support your SPP so it doesn't fall into the boiler?

A stainless steel scrubber at the buttom.

Is there anything beneath the scrubber to keep it from falling into the boiler or is the scrubber packed so tight that it supports the SPP all by itself? If it is the latter, I would say that could be a big part of the problem. Stainless scrubbers can easily cause flooding when compressed too much. Been there, done that.

If you have a screen or perforated plated supporting the scrubber then those have also been the source of flooding. Been there, done that too.

Is just the scrubber who supports all the SPP. I don't have any idea how to hold the SPP without scrubber.

[greggn]

I don't have any idea how to hold the SPP without scrubber.

This is what I use ...

https://www.glaciertanks.com/filter-spo ... 0-300.html







... but that's not the whole solution. I use raschig rings but SPP will suffer the same problem ... they can become wedged in the holes and block the vapor so I fill the spool with several dozen cut-off pieces of a 1/2" diameter copper pipe. Then fill the rest of the column with the raschig rings. The filter spool provides support, the pipe cut-offs allow vapor flow and prevent blockage of the filter perforations.

I haven't suffered a flood since adopting this method.

[CopperFiend]

I agree with SMF, there should be absolutely no pressure in your still (unless you're using a valve and have the valve fully closed with no pressure relief... Not a good idea). I use 4mm SPP I made myself in a 2" column and have no issues pushing 5KW through it at full reflux.

[squigglefunk]

as SPP any more efficient than SS scrubbies?

[bunny]

I agree with SMF, there should be absolutely no pressure in your still (unless you're using a valve and have the valve fully closed with no pressure relief... Not a good idea). I use 4mm SPP I made myself in a 2" column and have no issues pushing 5KW through it at full reflux.

Any chance to see a picture of your homemade spp and your mfg set-up?

Doesn't 72 ips vapor speed at full reflux tend to flood the column?

[bunny]

as SPP any more efficient than SS scrubbies?

Depends what you call "more efficient".

SPP and SS scrubbies can give you exactly the same product.

However, SPP can do this in less space and faster. Enough so to make it worthwhile to consider if you can afford it.

[CopperFiend]

Any chance to see a picture of your homemade spp and your mfg set-up?

Doesn't 72 ips vapor speed at full reflux tend to flood the column?

Sorry, not sure what mfg is but I don't have a pic of my setup at the moment, it's a 2" column with a massively oversized (10" long with 6 inner tubes) copper shotgun condenser as my defleg. Here's a pic of the SPP though. I think it's 0.45mm annealed 316 stainless wire I used.

Never had it flood. I was actually trying to get it to partially flood as I think Dad or Odin were suggesting but not sure if I achieved it.

[Salt Must Flow]

Exactly what are you using to support your SPP so it doesn't fall into the boiler?

A stainless steel scrubber at the buttom.

Is there anything beneath the scrubber to keep it from falling into the boiler or is the scrubber packed so tight that it supports the SPP all by itself? If it is the latter, I would say that could be a big part of the problem. Stainless scrubbers can easily cause flooding when compressed too much. Been there, done that.

If you have a screen or perforated plated supporting the scrubber then those have also been the source of flooding. Been there, done that too.

Is just the scrubber who supports all the SPP. I don't have any idea how to hold the SPP without scrubber.

You can simply solder two criss cross pieces of copper wire inside the base of your column to look similar to this.

Another way is to anneal some copper wire, flatten it out and solder it like this. The inner portion of a Tri-Clamp gasket can be cut away or more easily use a Dremel tool with a PTFE gasket. You can also buy these Still Dragon 3" Plate Gaskets.

Here's using the same plate gasket, but the support is made from flattened out copper pipe and criss crossed copper wire.

Here's another method that uses a similar disk, but it secured using a Tri-Clamp Orifice Plate Gasket.

Like I said before, if you are cramming your scrubber/scrubbers in there tight enough to support the weight of the SPP then it's way too tight, causing a choke point and is the cause of the flooding. Rig up proper packing support with no restriction and it will behave like a totally different animal. Instead of being restricted (causing flooding), your column will be WIDE OPEN allowing you to run at higher power.

Many claim to use Tri-Clamp perforated plates (plates with several holes) or Tri-Clamp screen gaskets, but those have been known to cause flooding too with packing resting directly over the holes. Don't do screens or holes. You'll always have a wide open column without having to think about it or tinker with bits to try and make it work. Flooding issues can be very confusing until you finally realize that you've been doing it wrong. Been there, done that.

[squigglefunk]

Depends what you call "more efficient".

SPP and SS scrubbies can give you exactly the same product.

However, SPP can do this in less space and faster. Enough so to make it worthwhile to consider if you can afford it.

Ah I see, not really important, just curious, I did see that lava rock is essentially the same as SPP as far as efficiency, just figured I would ask about the scrubbies.

[Iulistoi]

I thought these days to copper wires soldered as a cross within the base of the column but the SPPs are small enough to drop through those holes. I have to find a tea strainer to put over the cross and to be sure that the strainer is surely stainless steel and not something else. I think that the holes should not be too small because it can lead to chocking and flooding.

The SPPs are not so small, I made a confusion. I made them last year and I remember that they are between 4 and 4.5 mm diameter and 4-6 mm length. Two thirds of them are rectangular shape and one third are triangular. I etched them in ferric chloride to be more porous.

Thanks for your help!

[Salt Must Flow]

I thought these days to copper wires soldered as a cross within the base of the column but the SPPs are small enough to drop through those holes. I have to find a tea strainer to put over the cross and to be sure that the strainer is surely stainless steel and not something else. I think that the holes should not be too small because it can lead to chocking and flooding.

The SPPs are not so small, I made a confusion. I made them last year and I remember that they are between 4 and 4.5 mm diameter and 4-6 mm length. Two thirds of them are rectangular shape and one third are triangular. I etched them in ferric chloride to be more porous.

Thanks for your help!

The point of the cross is to support stainless steel scrubber or copper mesh and the SPP is poured over top. This ensures that you have no restriction which creates a choke point and causes flooding. You don't want to smash a scrubber in the column so tight that it can support the SPP all on its own because that will create restriction, creates a choke point and causes flooding. You want a loos scrubber to retain the SPP and the cross will support the scrubber so it doesn't fall into the boiler.

A tea strainer is too fine of a mesh, causes restriction, creates a choke point and will cause flooding. The solution is as simple as criss cross of copper wire, copper or a scrubber then SPP on top.

[jonnys_spirit]

I purchased a couple SS mesh PTFE gaskets for this and cut the mesh into a cross X to support a small amount of copper mesh which holds the media up and provides minimal obstruction to vapor.

Cheers!
-j

[BrewinBrian44]

I purchased a couple SS mesh PTFE gaskets for this and cut the mesh into a cross X to support a small amount of copper mesh which holds the media up and provides minimal obstruction to vapor.

Cheers!
-j

Genius. Seems like the most simple solution requiring little fab work. How thin did you make the width of the cross sections? I think I’m gonna do the same thing

[Iulistoi]

I thought these days to copper wires soldered as a cross within the base of the column but the SPPs are small enough to drop through those holes. I have to find a tea strainer to put over the cross and to be sure that the strainer is surely stainless steel and not something else. I think that the holes should not be too small because it can lead to chocking and flooding.

The SPPs are not so small, I made a confusion. I made them last year and I remember that they are between 4 and 4.5 mm diameter and 4-6 mm length. Two thirds of them are rectangular shape and one third are triangular. I etched them in ferric chloride to be more porous.

Thanks for your help!

The point of the cross is to support stainless steel scrubber or copper mesh and the SPP is poured over top. This ensures that you have no restriction which creates a choke point and causes flooding. You don't want to smash a scrubber in the column so tight that it can support the SPP all on its own because that will create restriction, creates a choke point and causes flooding. You want a loos scrubber to retain the SPP and the cross will support the scrubber so it doesn't fall into the boiler.

A tea strainer is too fine of a mesh, causes restriction, creates a choke point and will cause flooding. The solution is as simple as criss cross of copper wire, copper or a scrubber then SPP on top.

I don't understand how a cross could prevent the scrubber to smash. If the weight of the SPP presses on the compressible scrubber, it will flatten. I have 3 kg SPP for 2 inch column but I imagine those who have 3 or 4 inch, many times more weight pressing on that scrubber.

I think that copper mash or something uncompressible is better. I would reather put SPP over a layer of ceramic rashing rings that sits over the tea strainer and the strainer over the cross.

[richard1]

This is how I support the helical coil packing. The laser cut plate is welded in.