SPP Packing

[MiddleOfTheWorld]

Exactly what are you using to support your SPP so it doesn't fall into the boiler?

Here mine

image.png (47.46 KiB) Viewed 2563 times

,(or what it looks like ) 10 usd free shipping and some extra triclamps so like 15~ish. works like a charm.

[Salt Must Flow]

I thought these days to copper wires soldered as a cross within the base of the column but the SPPs are small enough to drop through those holes. I have to find a tea strainer to put over the cross and to be sure that the strainer is surely stainless steel and not something else. I think that the holes should not be too small because it can lead to chocking and flooding.

The SPPs are not so small, I made a confusion. I made them last year and I remember that they are between 4 and 4.5 mm diameter and 4-6 mm length. Two thirds of them are rectangular shape and one third are triangular. I etched them in ferric chloride to be more porous.

Thanks for your help!

The point of the cross is to support stainless steel scrubber or copper mesh and the SPP is poured over top. This ensures that you have no restriction which creates a choke point and causes flooding. You don't want to smash a scrubber in the column so tight that it can support the SPP all on its own because that will create restriction, creates a choke point and causes flooding. You want a loos scrubber to retain the SPP and the cross will support the scrubber so it doesn't fall into the boiler.

A tea strainer is too fine of a mesh, causes restriction, creates a choke point and will cause flooding. The solution is as simple as criss cross of copper wire, copper or a scrubber then SPP on top.

I don't understand how a cross could prevent the scrubber to smash. If the weight of the SPP presses on the compressible scrubber, it will flatten. I have 3 kg SPP for 2 inch column but I imagine those who have 3 or 4 inch, many times more weight pressing on that scrubber.

I think that copper mash or something uncompressible is better. I would reather put SPP over a layer of ceramic rashing rings that sits over the tea strainer and the strainer over the cross.

10 lbs of SPP or lava rock for instance will not impart 10 lbs of pressure directly to the scrubber or mesh. It just doesn't work that way. There is lateral pressure as well, not 100% downward pressure. It won't smash it and create restriction like you are imagining. I know this because I do it every time I run my still. As I've said previously, in the past when I was doing it wrong using a coarse screen, I had nothing but consistent flooding problems. Once I did as I have shown, I now cannot get my column to flood even if I try. There are countless instances here in the forum of people with flooding issues. The one thing they all had in common was they were are using screens, plates with holes and other methods that create restriction. Once the restriction was removed, their problem was solved.

Check out the pics on the Doctor Gradus website. It's just a simple and absolutely effective concept.

[cob]

download/file.php?id=2583

[TwoSheds]

So where are folks getting SPP these days? I've gone through the last few pages of this thread and a couple others and most of the links are dead or out of stock.

Doctor Gradus site seems to be up and available but I'm not sure the complexities of getting a shipment from Russia to the US is.

eBay and Ali seem to have packing that resembles a spring rather than having the extra triangular crimp which I would prefer.

I haven't completely ruled out making my own but would rather spend that time on my steam stripping rig...

TwoSheds

[Salt Must Flow]

So where are folks getting SPP these days? I've gone through the last few pages of this thread and a couple others and most of the links are dead or out of stock.

Doctor Gradus site seems to be up and available but I'm not sure the complexities of getting a shipment from Russia to the US is.

eBay and Ali seem to have packing that resembles a spring rather than having the extra triangular crimp which I would prefer.

I haven't completely ruled out making my own but would rather spend that time on my steam stripping rig...

TwoSheds

If those spirals didn't cost so much, I'd love to give them a try with my 3" column. The wire diameter and spiral dimensions are closest to spec for my column than all other SPP made that I've seen. Dr Gradus makes large enough SPP, but way too small of wire diameter which results in requiring much more power. They should just use larger diameter wire to make it perfect for a 3" column.

[elbono]

I got lucky and found some on ebay when Piotor had it in stock. I was very happy with it and asked him to send me an email when he makes more. I'll post a heads up AFTER I order some.

Try this too. I believe it is Manu de Hanoi from the early condenser control threads. I don't know stock status or shipping costs, he asks you to send an email to find out.

Besides the current political situation I saw recent posts about Dr Gradus SPP cleaning issues that make me wary.

[shaawnzee]

I got mine from Oleg (Selivanenko) and standard Russian shipping was here within a week or two. This was about a month ago. 3"x24, 2 glasses, 2 3x2 reducers, and the liquid distributor shown earlier.

[Salt Must Flow]

Besides the current political situation I saw recent posts about Dr Gradus SPP cleaning issues that make me wary.

Curious what cleaning issues? I'm assuming that you mean that their SPP is oily, dirty, etc... It's up to the customer to clean the SPP. If I misunderstood what you wrote, please let me know. I've seen where people have had to rinse with hot water, soap or whatever to clean it up, but I would expect to have to do the typical cleaning runs to make it ready to use.

[shaawnzee]

Mine wasn't very dirty. I boiled both the SS and Cu in water with some vinegar and then put in mesh laundry bags and in the dishwasher.

[elbono]

Besides the current political situation I saw recent posts about Dr Gradus SPP cleaning issues that make me wary.

Curious what cleaning issues?

Brewinbrian44 seems to have had a rough time.
I had just received my SPP from still4you when this happened so I was suitably paranoid when I cleaned mine. Boiled it in water twice, ran it through the dishwasher in a brew bag, did a sac run. The only thing I saw was a tiny amount of oil on top of the boiled water when it cooled. So little that I wasn't positive there was anything there. Skimmed it, changed water and boiled again anyway.

I think the SPP from Piotr was very clean. My batch or BB's batch could have been out of the norm for either supplier. YMMV!

[Salt Must Flow]

Besides the current political situation I saw recent posts about Dr Gradus SPP cleaning issues that make me wary.

Curious what cleaning issues?

Brewinbrian44 seems to have had a rough time.
I had just received my SPP from still4you when this happened so I was suitably paranoid when I cleaned mine. Boiled it in water twice, ran it through the dishwasher in a brew bag, did a sac run. The only thing I saw was a tiny amount of oil on top of the boiled water when it cooled. So little that I wasn't positive there was anything there. Skimmed it, changed water and boiled again anyway.

I think the SPP from Piotr was very clean. My batch or BB's batch could have been out of the norm for either supplier. YMMV!

That's what I thought you were referring to. It's nothing boiling and dish soap can't handle along with the standard cleaning runs.

[elbono]

It sounds like BB did a lot more than that. Any opinion on his experience? Overly cautious? Could starting with vinegar have caused a chemical reaction resulting in the "burnt rubber" smell? I experienced nothing like that.

My view is boiling in water will remove almost all residual oil, dishwasher is probably not needed but easy to do, sac run just normal procedure on new parts.

[Salt Must Flow]

It sounds like BB did a lot more than that. Any opinion on his experience? Overly cautious? Could starting with vinegar have caused a chemical reaction resulting in the "burnt rubber" smell? I experienced nothing like that.

My view is boiling in water will remove almost all residual oil, dishwasher is probably not needed but easy to do, sac run just normal procedure on new parts.

No, he didn't. He said he just tossed the new SPP in his column, did a vinegar run, a sacrificial alcohol run and finally put it in his dishwasher.

I would have literally boiled it with dish soap at least once and multiple times if necessary before even trying a vinegar run. Here's a video that shows how he cleaned his and said it stunk.

[elbono]

I'm not much on youtube, I'll take your word on it. The thread makes it sound horrible.

Nothing like my experience.

[BrewinBrian44]

Hey guys just to clarify, I should have started with the dishwasher to make things easier for me. Trying to get vinegar to dissolve all that oil was a mistake on my part. Because of this mistake I ended up adding more steps to get the stuff clean.

It’s remarkable what dishwasher detergent will remove. Do this step, vinegar run and sac run after and you’ll be good to go!

[Skál]

If it helps anyone here I also bought my SPP a few years from that Piotr Lipski fellah.Didn't give it more than a boil with detergent vinegar (I forget) before use as it was very clean.After use I put the outflow from my coolant through the top of my Boka and use that to rinse.Only time I've had problems with that was after not using it for a year or so and where the SPP touched the inside on the column there was some copper carbonate residue.Also,I soldered 2 wires across the bottom of the column to support the SPP but the "scrubber " things Piotr supplies with the SPP (appear to be made from the waste when his SPP machine fecks up and throws the wire) will support it no problem alone and that's with the weight of 130cm of SPP above in a 2" column.Nice to have the wire for security though.

[bitter]

With all the issues with war and threat of war destabilizing things. My buddy had some time so got a spool of .023 308L stainless steel. He has it all ready for me to snip up. We ended on the larger size about 6mm OD so might need another element to drive more power but time will see. The Stuff on Still It was abotu 8x8mm and worked better than pot scrubbers anyway so will be some benefit anyways. worst case get more wire if the 10lb is not enough

B

[bitter]

Here is the SPP about 6mm OD cutting 9-10MM but not always perfect...

Be nice when I get a liter so I can see how much the 10lbs of wire will yield. I need about 6 liters overall so might need another real.

This is about 1.16 to 1.17 kg per liter. So will have about 2/3 what I need from 10 lb roll.

B

[Skál]

Going to slightly (perhaps) derail this thread (I've looked through so many others) but has anyone made a dedicated post on how to run SPP? When I started it was Odins,DerWo,Dane and someone else's names I forget that made me spend the cash for SPP and it was £ V Time was great.I haven't distilled for a few years until recently and getting back to grips with holding a flooded condition throughout a spirit run.aezo is no problem from scratch from a 10%(roughly) 20ltr wash at 2ltr per hr.In my experience anyhow.Have there been other threads dedicated to is it SPP and a recommended/optimal use.For me now after reading and comparison to newer posts there is no REAL 'How To Use SPP'. I'm happy to do some runs if a smarter person can analyse my outcomes,dissect them and come up with an equation?lol.rather that my "a bit if this and a bit of that". I see Odin has left and for me he was a faunt of knowledge that's a shame also DerWo isn't he still around?

[Skál]

I derailed myself.Could we make a dedicated post on the most efficient use if SPP?Ill do experiments if I a smarter person than me tells me what to do Also Skow who I called Scow a Shytty barge I forgot him.

[Skál]

I suppose MY question is.With 1200mm of (5mm )SPP in a 2" 5.5mm column with 2.7W is there a limit? Obviously power input is a factor as is 'super cooling' from reflux.I can take at 2ltr per hour from a 20 litre wash with and done.If a spirit or feints run up to a full 40 ltr I can't sayI can't say.I drink too much but my point?Could we make a definitive post/thread?


Jeez I'm dumb as fk eh!?

[bitter]

You need to see were your SPP starts flooding and then back off a little for optimal performance and takeoff. This is based on odin and Dad300 comments early in the thread.

5x5mm is a bit large for a 2" so I expect you might need more power to run it optimally. I will know more once My SPP is done Have just over 3.5L but need 6L for my 3" boka. I am also upgrading my CSST condensor at the same time for to do cleaning runs with everything at the same time as my current condenser is borderline for 5500W were I think I will need to be close to for my setup and SPP.

With Copper blocker its a bit of a dance to find the sweet spot. I could do 5.X LPH but was not clean. Maybe it will be with SPP but to me I d rather get say 4 LPH and things be clean and set it and forget it for the run. 58L keg say I put 50L in it per run going to be 5L of potental at 10% wash... so not worth running too fast. 3 to 3.5Lph worked better for clean neutral with the 3" and copper blocker so I expect will get over that, likely wider cuts and also more stability.. was a bit of a dance as things went had to gradually increase power to up reflux to keep up and keep the column stable.

B

[BrewinBrian44]

I suppose MY question is.With 1200mm of (5mm )SPP in a 2" 5.5mm column with 2.7W is there a limit? Obviously power input is a factor as is 'super cooling' from reflux.I can take at 2ltr per hour from a 20 litre wash with and done.If a spirit or feints run up to a full 40 ltr I can't sayI can't say.I drink too much but my point?Could we make a definitive post/thread?


Jeez I'm dumb as fk eh!?

As Bitter alluded yo, I think you’ll find this thread is “the thread” for how to run SPP. I’ve read the whole thread many times and screenshotted some key posts for my notes and used them as a baseline to run my VM rig. Follow the instructions from Dad300 and Odin, they are indeed the gold standard. With that, your specific SPP and column design will make your numbers different. You’ll have to find what works for you by your own experimentation. Though, the same principles still apply.

You’ll also find there are different opinions on HD about running in a semi flooded state being the optimal way to make neutral. I think a lot of this sentiment is coming from folks who haven’t used this packing material but have great success in their process.

In my most recent posts in this thread, I’ve discovered how important it is to make sure you have an easy drainage path back to your boiler. On my first cleaning run, I was able to run high wattage and balance the distillate pool quite easily, achieving 96% ABV at a high take-off rate. To my frustration, when I performed my first spirit run, I kept getting a runaway flood situation and had to dial everything down because I stuffed too much copper mesh in the bottom of the column, thus creating a true smeared flood. I had to resort to running lower power and a slower take off to resolve this, which prevented the SPP from performing any better than scrubbies. I plan on fixing this issue and posting results, but I had to take a break from neutral and put all my efforts towards re-filling a 5 gallon barrel with bourbon.

[BrewinBrian44]

Here is the SPP about 6mm OD cutting 9-10MM but not always perfect...

1.jpg
2.jpg


Be nice when I get a liter so I can see how much the 10lbs of wire will yield. I need about 6 liters overall so might need another real.

This is about 1.16 to 1.17 kg per liter. So will have about 2/3 what I need from 10 lb roll.

B

Wow Bitter, I applaud you for making the SPP yourself. I am far too impatient! I could foresee a massive blister forming on your “snipping hand” with how much of this stuff you plan to make! Haha.

[bitter]

Wow Bitter, I applaud you for making the SPP yourself. I am far too impatient! I could foresee a massive blister forming on your “snipping hand” with how much of this stuff you plan to make! Haha.

Yeah well cutting is next to automate.. My hands hurt lol.. but what does not kill you makes you stronger!

Can't wait to post results on this once I get some time to play and find the sweet spot. Need some gin so will start with neutral then go and give making pure whiskey a go again. done it a few times and this running this fast might be perfect for do that to make a nice clean whiskey.. I found it ages a bit faster than pure pot whiskey and really good.

B

[BrewinBrian44]

Can’t wait to see your results! Should be some great inspiration for other members.

[bitter]

Can’t wait to see your results! Should be some great inspiration for other members.

Hope so. Be nice if was available easily is North America.

B

[BrewinBrian44]

I agree! I’m surprised someone like Milehi or Brewhaus isn’t making it!

[bitter]

Looks like kegland is getting in on the SPP for there alcoengine stuff.

[manu de hanoi]

Exactly what are you using to support your SPP so it doesn't fall into the boiler?

Here mine image.png,(or what it looks like ) 10 usd free shipping and some extra triclamps so like 15~ish. works like a charm.

gogo gadget