Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by Fletching »

PeatyKeats wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:10 pm
For anyone who has done a single malt Scotch style spirit run, what does yours taste like unaged after you’ve made the cuts?
Take this with a grain of salt, as I have only done a single malt one time. I used 75% 6 row and 25% peated barley. I also added some of my tails from a previous UJSSM run, so a little different from the recipe in this thread. However, I thought I would share what some of my flavor points were.

The heads of this run had the soapy flavor I have found in other runs, but also, some jars in the late heads tasted heavily like dirt, and not in a good way.

The hearts tasted a little earthy and Smokey, but pretty light most of the way through.

Early tails tasted like leather to me. Like I was chewing on my belt. Then, heavy peat showed up to play and I loved those jars. I expected late tails to have the wet dog/cardboard taste that I typically have found in the tails of other runs. This run was no exception. Late tails were funky dog, but if that dog were eating a slug that had just smoked a Marlboro red.

That being said, I wanted the peat flavor bad, and the leather flavor had me intrigued. I blended the leather jars in with the rest of the hearts and tails I decided on. I aged them six months on once used charred oak dominos and it turned out pretty dang good!

Before oaking, the final flavor tasted pretty earthy, but some of the peat was definitely present.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by HDNB »

when you light a fire and smoke your grain, time is the only thing that will put the fire out. there's a reason scotch is aged for so long.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by PeatyKeats »

StuNY wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:29 pm I've made about 15 batches of this now. Did you collect the spirit run in small jars sequentially? Each part of the run will taste differently. The first jars more acetone and harsh, the last jars more wet paper dull. The hearts of the run should taste very good white. Full of flavor but still a little "hot". Then it is just a matter of blending the heads you like, with the tails and hearts. Aging will mellow everything. I now include a lot more heads and tails in what I keep. Aging it 3 months on oak is drinkable, 6 months is very nice, 1 year is excellent, 2 years incredible, 3 years... I have no idea because I haven't made it this far with anything left to drink haha! I have been making this recipe a few years now.
Yes. I collected abt 35 jars w/ 200-300 MLs. I identified the main cuts, but I wouldn’t say that my hearts (even proofed down 40%) tasted good. There were aspects I liked, but it wouldn’t be a spirit I’d want to drink unaged. That might be that my product wasn’t all that good. Time will tell. I’ve also read that the aging process mellows out the harshness and adds flavor. I attempted to slightly widen the cuts w/ heads/tails for flavor. Right now it’s on oak, and we’ll see what happens.
Thanks for the response.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by PeatyKeats »

Fletching wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:10 pm
The heads of this run had the soapy flavor I have found in other runs, but also, some jars in the late heads tasted heavily like dirt, and not in a good way.

The hearts tasted a little earthy and Smokey, but pretty light most of the way through.

Early tails tasted like leather to me. Like I was chewing on my belt. Then, heavy peat showed up to play and I loved those jars. I expected late tails to have the wet dog/cardboard taste that I typically have found in the tails of other runs. This run was no exception. Late tails were funky dog, but if that dog were eating a slug that had just smoked a Marlboro red.

That being said, I wanted the peat flavor bad, and the leather flavor had me intrigued. I blended the leather jars in with the rest of the hearts and tails I decided on. I aged them six months on once used charred oak dominos and it turned out pretty dang good!

Before oaking, the final flavor tasted pretty earthy, but some of the peat was definitely present.
Thanks for the response. That helps. My heads were astringent, as expected, and my hearts were lighter, but also had a leather taste and some peaty mouth feel. The tails went quickly from wet dog to dirty toes, but the late tails had some nice peat to it.
Thanks again.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

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HDNB wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:06 pm when you light a fire and smoke your grain, time is the only thing that will put the fire out. there's a reason scotch is aged for so long.
LOL. Thanks!
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by EricTheRed »

I am currently attempting this recipe and process, fermenting on the grain - but am having a serious ph crash
never had that before when sparging it and fermenting off the grain

The mash loosened up a lot during the enzyme rest (68°C) after 1.5 hours

OG was 1.06 on one barrel and 1.064 on the second

After 3 days the grain raft had completely disappeared and sunk to the bottom
ZERO activity

it is now 11 days going and the SG is still the same on both. PH is 3.2 - 3.5 (depending what mood the meter is in - yes it was calibrated)

Should i chuck it and call it a learning experience?

edit: it smells very very sour too
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

EricTheRed wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:37 pm
Should i chuck it and call it a learning experience?
What exactly would it be that you learned? Why don't you tell us that before you think about throwing it away.

What did you learn?
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by NormandieStill »

Why not add some calcium carbonate and try and recover it. If you get the pH back up it may well take off again.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by Setsumi »

Before you answer SCD, take a SG reading.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by EricTheRed »

SCD
Ph at 3.3
Sg at 1.06

What i learned. Our water has no calcium, so all grain is going to need more ingredients. Like cc and likely more gypsum.
Haven't got any cc to chuck in and closest shop 100kms away.
Will eat lots of eggs so i can use them to recover it.

Speaking of which, how to prepare them, the eggshells that is?

So lessons learned
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by EricTheRed »

A thought. I have enough space to chuck in 10L h2o at ph of 6.5
Would that help?
Should i repitch yeast?
Volume at the moment is around 35L
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

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EricTheRed wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 5:29 am SCD
Ph at 3.3
Sg at 1.06
Sorry, missed that.

So you had zero yeast activity after 11 days? Even without a pH buffer this is very unlikely.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by EricTheRed »

Any opinion on chucking 10 l hi ph water and re pitchong the yeast?
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by jonnys_spirit »

Water’s probably not going to have much buffering capability. Is it sweet? 68C is 154*F. What was the temp when you added malted grain? Did you use additional enzymes? Have you done an iodine/starch test?

White wine is typically in the 3.2-3.4 pH range. Bakers might not be too happy but i’d expect something….
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

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jonnys_spirit wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:45 am Water’s probably not going to have much buffering capability. Is it sweet? 68C is 154*F. What was the temp when you added malted grain? Did you use additional enzymes? Have you done an iodine/starch test?

White wine is typically in the 3.2-3.4 pH range. Bakers might not be too happy but i’d expect something….
Used distillers yeast
Smells very sour but tastes very sweet
In at 70c, rested at 68c for an hour and a half.

I should be able to raise the ph to around 4.2 by adding water.

This has me stumped. Just finished a peach mash and a rhubarb mash (must, whatever) and zero issues there. Previous grain ferments no problem. This however is my first on the grain.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by Setsumi »

Better to mash low say 62 deg C when distilling, more fermentable when using malted grains. I would adjust pH and if you have put in some amaly. But a pH drop that low without yeast activity on all grain?
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by EricTheRed »

Very strange.
Am going to add water and repitch in the morning
Will let y'all know what happens
Thanks for the inputs
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

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EricTheRed wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:52 am
jonnys_spirit wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:45 am Water’s probably not going to have much buffering capability. Is it sweet? 68C is 154*F. What was the temp when you added malted grain? Did you use additional enzymes? Have you done an iodine/starch test?

White wine is typically in the 3.2-3.4 pH range. Bakers might not be too happy but i’d expect something….
Used distillers yeast
Smells very sour but tastes very sweet
In at 70c, rested at 68c for an hour and a half.

I should be able to raise the ph to around 4.2 by adding water.

This has me stumped. Just finished a peach mash and a rhubarb mash (must, whatever) and zero issues there. Previous grain ferments no problem. This however is my first on the grain.

Did you use any backset? That is pretty low, 4.2 should be adequate to make them go, they like 4-6. Crushed eggshells should work as well, might take a little time. It would benefit you to have a water report, it may be your residual alkalinity is low.

As long as your water is not chlorinated you can pull the pH up with a little baking soda.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by EricTheRed »

Water not chlorinated, well water low in calcium and ph of 6.5

No backset

How much baking soda? Tbsp or 2?
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by CoogeeBoy »

EricTheRed wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 5:29 am SCD
Ph at 3.3
Sg at 1.06

What i learned. Our water has no calcium, so all grain is going to need more ingredients. Like cc and likely more gypsum.
Haven't got any cc to chuck in and closest shop 100kms away.
Will eat lots of eggs so i can use them to recover it.

Speaking of which, how to prepare them, the eggshells that is?

So lessons learned
Are you taking the wash out of the fermenter and measuring separately or are you measuring the SG in the fermenter?
I made that mistake and found the solids or suspended solids affected my SG reading.

Try taking a sample out and letting it rest for 15-30 mins then measuring SG.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

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No solids
All sunk
But yes, took out a cup and let settle
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by EricTheRed »

Soooooo,
i was racking my brain as to what has gone wrong as even the dunder i used 4 times didn't do this to me.
Started going through everything - including invoices from malted grain supplier - tada!
The *(&(^(*^(*&^* sent me regular light toast barley - NOT MALTED.

So those OG readings and current SG readings mean nothing at all! Just some random reading based on viscosity, not density - grrrrrrrr

I chucked 3.5KG of sugar into each tub and I chucked in 4 TBSP of baking soda into each one, stirred up real good - now has a raft again
Waiting for yeast to re-activate - else tomorrow i'll re-pitch it.

Then I'll take the spent (not so spent) grains, heat them up to 83°C, pitch enzymes and do a very strange reverse sugarhead! :D

Lesson - always check the fekking invoice and make sure you got what you ordered!

This has had me going for several days now - and thanks for the all the inputs folks - that one piece of missing information has wasted everyone's time. Maybe i should write this up in a separate thread so it will be easier to find if somebody else has the same/similar experience

ta
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by jonnys_spirit »

Good detective work! I keep a bottle of glucoamylase enzymes and throw in a capful or two at 150*F for insurance even with all malt. I wonder if there’s a flavor difference between cultured enzymes and malt only conversion - used on the same grain bill. I have some iodine but rarely actually do a starch test unless it seems questionable.

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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

There you go, Eric. Good job. Now we all learned something and you didn't just dump a perfectly good barrel of potential whiskey :thumbup:
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by EricTheRed »

JS
I also have and starting a new mash today, and same story- so the enzymes have just been added :D

SCD yup, I'll report back on the reverse sugarheads :D
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by EricTheRed »

OK
Lessons learnt
- don't always assume that what others are doing is good for your own setup, water, etc.

After letting this stuff sit for another 10 days, it started to get very grey, smelled absolutely horrible, and not on iota of fermentation. SG still at 1.075

We chucked it out for the cows - they didn't touch it until we had 55mm of rain on it.

i have now decided that i will go back to my own personal tried and true recipe which has never failed me. No more adding all the other stuff - just grain, oatmeal, dextrose and yeast! :)

ta
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by Stilman »

OK, I have made many a batch of all grain and based most of what I have done on info through this thread. But I think I have a PROBLEM.
Last night I mashed 20 gallons and 40lbs malted wheat as usual BUT.....I let the temp hang around 140-148 for maybe 4 hours, stirring here and there and then I let it rest and cool overnight before pitching yeast.

it smells......it smells different and it does not water my mouth. I worry I have an infection. Any suggestions on what to do??

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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by StuNY »

Does it smell like baby puke? White film on top, or spidery lines into bubbles? If so you are in luck and it is fine- just a case of lacto and does not hurt- maybe even helps- the flavors. You never know what will grow though when you leave warm wort overnight. Always let the yeast get a head start over all the other organisms and all will turn out fine.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by Stilman »

ya, smells like puke but with the thick grain cap on top, hard to tell much else. I will let it ferment away and hope for the best. I was thinking that even if the lacto made for bad flavours, I could run it through a column and make wheat vodka.....thanks for the response.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

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Stilman wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 7:28 am ya, smells like puke but with the thick grain cap on top, hard to tell much else. I will let it ferment away and hope for the best. I was thinking that even if the lacto made for bad flavours, I could run it through a column and make wheat vodka.....thanks for the response.
Puke smell isn't lacto, it's butyric I believe, and you have to let it ride until it smells like pineapple before you distill it. Seems that's what I've read on here. Never had a butyric infection, but I've had a few lacto infections.
Can you post a picture of what's growing on top of the cap?
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