Irish whiskey

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wineo
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Irish whiskey

Post by wineo »

I made this early this year,and its much better than jameson.I just made up the grain bill,and its irish whiskey.It turned out really good.
Heres my post from april.

Hey all,here is my new try for a good malt whiskey.I ran the grain through the barley crusher today,and im going to mash it tomorow,
after i do my weekly UJSM run,and im going to use 2 gallons of corn backset to start the mash.I will be mashing in a cooler,and will leave it
till the next day. I will split this grain into 2 buckets,and ferment on the grain,useing w/d yeast w/ag.
10lbs of american 2 row pale ale malt
1 lb of american 6 row vienna malt
1 lb of wheat malt
1/2 lb of flaked barley
3 lbs of cleaned oats {horse feed}
1 1/2 cups of flaked rye {for a hint of rye}
9 lbs of corn sugar
I am shooting for a starting sg of 1080
I have never mixed it up this much for whiskey,but im trying to make a
complex flavor profile,for some good malt whiskey,so off we go into the great unknown! Ive done this kind of thing,making beer with good results,
and this aint much different. Tell me what you all think,good or bad cause
a 2nd openion is always a good thing.

This turned out a really smooth irish whiskey.I potstilled it 1 time.
wineo
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Re: Irish whiskey

Post by Johnny Reb »

wineo wrote:I made this early this year,and its much better than jameson.I just made up the grain bill,and its irish whiskey.It turned out really good.
Heres my post from april.

Hey all,here is my new try for a good malt whiskey.I ran the grain through the barley crusher today,and im going to mash it tomorow,
after i do my weekly UJSM run,and im going to use 2 gallons of corn backset to start the mash.I will be mashing in a cooler,and will leave it
till the next day. I will split this grain into 2 buckets,and ferment on the grain,useing w/d yeast w/ag.
10lbs of american 2 row pale ale malt
1 lb of american 6 row vienna malt
1 lb of wheat malt
1/2 lb of flaked barley
3 lbs of cleaned oats {horse feed}
1 1/2 cups of flaked rye {for a hint of rye}
9 lbs of corn sugar
I am shooting for a starting sg of 1080
I have never mixed it up this much for whiskey,but im trying to make a
complex flavor profile,for some good malt whiskey,so off we go into the great unknown! Ive done this kind of thing,making beer with good results,
and this aint much different. Tell me what you all think,good or bad cause
a 2nd openion is always a good thing.

This turned out a really smooth irish whiskey.I potstilled it 1 time.
wineo
What was the total cost after you was done and how much likker did ya git outta it :)

Sounds liken it would be a good sippin

Johnny Reb
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Post by mtnwalker2 »

Hey Johnn Reb, I was fortunate to acquire a bottle of this from Wineo.

Let me tell you it was some of the best malt whisky i have ever tried, and it was only weeks old on charred oak.

He forgot to tell me the proof was 120, it tasted and felt like around 85 and i enjoyed it as such, and with the expected result. Sure did enjoy it, and no hangover, just gallons of water.

Worth makeing for sure.
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>habit" Aristotle
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Post by wineo »

I didnt add up the cost on it because I already had all the grains.If your going to do it,buy a 50 or 55Lb bag of 2 row malt from the brewing supply.You should be able to get it under $40.I did 3 ferments on that grain,and had about 5 gallons of booze off of it.I still have 10 pounds of that malt left,and made lots of beer,and whiskey with it.You can also just use regular sugar.I tried it both ways,and theres not too much difference.
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Post by Johnny Reb »

wineo wrote:I didnt add up the cost on it because I already had all the grains.If your going to do it,buy a 50 or 55Lb bag of 2 row malt from the brewing supply.You should be able to get it under $40.I did 3 ferments on that grain,and had about 5 gallons of booze off of it.I still have 10 pounds of that malt left,and made lots of beer,and whiskey with it.You can also just use regular sugar.I tried it both ways,and theres not too much difference.
wineo
Right now I am mainly trying out different bills till I find somethin I like.

The different bills I been making is gettin stored and put away.

I hate waiting on sometimes years to be able to drink wines and likker cause I feel I might not be round to enjoy them and everyone knows you cant take it with ya when its time to go :lol: an I dont wants the kin folk sittin round some night sippin and sayin that there Johnny Reb made some damn good sippin likker, too bad his not round to enjoy it too :shock:

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Re: Irish whiskey

Post by thereddon »

~25lbs of ingredients...how much water did that go into?
wineo wrote: Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:41 pm I made this early this year,and its much better than jameson.I just made up the grain bill,and its irish whiskey.It turned out really good.
Heres my post from april.

Hey all,here is my new try for a good malt whiskey.I ran the grain through the barley crusher today,and im going to mash it tomorow,
after i do my weekly UJSM run,and im going to use 2 gallons of corn backset to start the mash.I will be mashing in a cooler,and will leave it
till the next day. I will split this grain into 2 buckets,and ferment on the grain,useing w/d yeast w/ag.
10lbs of american 2 row pale ale malt
1 lb of american 6 row vienna malt
1 lb of wheat malt
1/2 lb of flaked barley
3 lbs of cleaned oats {horse feed}
1 1/2 cups of flaked rye {for a hint of rye}
9 lbs of corn sugar
I am shooting for a starting sg of 1080
I have never mixed it up this much for whiskey,but im trying to make a
complex flavor profile,for some good malt whiskey,so off we go into the great unknown! Ive done this kind of thing,making beer with good results,
and this aint much different. Tell me what you all think,good or bad cause
a 2nd openion is always a good thing.

This turned out a really smooth irish whiskey.I potstilled it 1 time.
wineo
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Re: Irish whiskey

Post by StillerBoy »

thereddon wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:49 pm ~25lbs of ingredients...how much water did that go into?
New to as all grain bills..

How did you arrived at 25 lbs grain bill.. there's only 16 lbs at best.. and he used 2 - 5 gal pails to ferment that in..

So my estimate would be 7.5 - 8 gal of water, and whatever space 9 lbs of dextrose need and also need to have a some head space for the fermenting 2 - row malt..

Mars
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Re: Irish whiskey

Post by 6 Row Joe »

I count 26# just saying. Don't forget the 10# of 2 row.
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Re: Irish whiskey

Post by Yonder »

Yeah 25#. Still, how much water and what kind? Don’t need to guess at it, he ain’t MIA or hiding, just ask.
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Re: Irish whiskey

Post by cayars »

I count a bit less than 16 pounds of grains and 9 pounds of dextrose (sugar).
I debated to post this or not as I'll come off as an ass hat. (oh well too late) LOL

The purest in me balks at calling this an "Irish Whiskey" since it has sugar added among other reasons which don't fit "Irish".

The 9 pounds of dextrose in usable sugar content would require 16.3 pounds of corn at 70% conversion efficiency to keep this a true whiskey. The corn of course would give you the "corn" flavor that you won't get from the dextrose.

At that point you'd have 12 pounds of malted grains and about 20 pounds of unmalted grains.
So it's not a "Single Malt", "Single Grain", "Pot Still" (uses other than barley), "Grain Whiskey" (particularly light style usually made from corn or wheat, grain whiskey is produced in column stills but must contain only cereal grains available in Ireland), leaving the closest match a "Blended" whiskey although this isn't blended. A true Irish Blended Whiskey is a blend of the other types of Irish Whiskey.

To be Irish Whiskey it would need to be produced in Ireland and be stored in oak for a minimum of 3 years but we won't worry about either of these two requirements. :)

Irish Whiskey is almost always fermented off grain vs on grain. Although there is no requirement, most pot distilled Irish Whiskey is TRIPLE DISTILLED at increasing ABV which kind of blows this from being similar to Irish IMHO since this is distilled once leaving a full flavor. All Irish Whiskey is at least twice distilled if done in pots.

Had the corn been used instead of the dextrose this would be 51% corn mix that's fermented on grain and distilled once, making it much closer to a high malt Bourbon than Irish IMHO.

<ass hat off>
Regardless of what you want to call it, I'm sure it will be quite tasty due to the malted grains and nice combination of grain choices. I'd personally distill it twice however (strip and spirit run).
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Re: Irish whiskey

Post by StillerBoy »

6 Row Joe wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:40 pm I count 26# just saying. Don't forget the 10# of 2 row.
Yonder wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:11 pm Yeah 25#. Still, how much water and what kind?
I stand by the numbers provided.. I don't see any water numbers..

How come.......

Mars
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Re: Irish whiskey

Post by Irishgnome »

Sounds like this could be really tasty!

Mars, you’re not going to get an answer from Wineo on the numbers.

If anyone has attempted this, please let us know how this turned out as well as the numbers you used.

Cheers
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Re: Irish whiskey

Post by cayars »

I did a very quick calculation and based on the fact that he said 2 buckets and shooting for 1.080.
If topped off completely to 10 gallons you could get 1.080 SG.
So you would end up with about 5 gallons of liquid plus any sparge.

Personally if only working with 10 gallons total I'd lauter or sparge out the grains before fermenting real well to get out all the sugar, use some additional hot water to get the sugar off the grains, then mix in the sugar after separating the grains. I'd only add enough of the dextrose sugar to bring up the potential to around 9% ABV vs the 10.5 in the op post.

But instead of having about 5 gallons after fermenting of 10.5% you'd have about 9.5 gallons of 9% that will settle and run cleaner. You also won't need to wring out the grains after fermenting to get all the alcohol out or water it down below 9% using more water.

With all that malted grain it's going to be tasty after aging.
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Re: Irish whiskey

Post by StillerBoy »

Irish.. I am aware wineo haven't been around for some time now, I don't expect an answer..

I provided numbers for gallons based on these statement.. "I will split this grain into 2 buckets,and ferment on the grain," and "I am shooting for a starting sg of 1080"

Most times when reference to a bucket, it's imply to be a 5 gal.. and reference to a SG of 1080 imply less water than normal used for an SG of 1065 - 1070..

Now.. mashing with barley malt requires lots of head space as malt has a tendency of foaming big time and making a high cap, high cap meaning it will push the grains out of the water surface, unless some anti foam is used and if so, it will still push a cap up, but.. there is no mention of using anti foam..

So base on the about, I would fill the bucket to no more than 4" from the top, and that would be on the edge.. so 4" from the top is about 4 gal per bucket.. over all equal 8 gal for the recipe batch..

Mars
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Re: Irish whiskey

Post by cayars »

Agree completely with Mars. What I mentioned above is just the pure calculation of achieving 1.080 based on 10 gallon total volume which leaves no head room. This is a grain heavy recipe for sure and to high an ABV/SG IMHO.

That's why I suggested lautering or sparging the grains before the ferment to remove them which would allow you to get more liquid needed for the still after fermenting.

Of course if you have a 15 gallon or bigger container you will ferment in vs "couple of buckets" you can use the recipe as written and top off to the 10 gallon mark (or maybe 11 or 12) for slightly less ABV and still have headroom. 5 gallon buckets or carboys will be problematic with this much grain IMHO.
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Re: Irish whiskey

Post by Irishgnome »

I agree with Mars as well!
Wineo did note 6 gallon washes a few times, so I would assume that he was using grape juice buckets.
Most vendors that sell grape juice for making wine come in 6 gallon buckets. Just something to consider.
I have seen some in an odd 28 litter bucket, which would be close to 7.5 gallons.
Anyway, this sounds like something that I’d like to try.

Cheers!
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Re: Irish whiskey

Post by StillerBoy »

Irishgnome wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:33 am using grape juice buckets.
Agree with guys.. grape juice buckets that I have are 23 l, or 6 gal US..

This exercise was about getting a number for the amount of water, so I think it is in the ball park..

If using a grape juice bucket, Yah , I can see doing a 5 gal per pail.. but.. always keep in mind that malt requires lots of head space..

But as Cayars stated, doing the recipe for a 10 gal batch in a larger fermenter would be the place to start from..

I may just give it a try, since I've done the exercise (lol), plus I have lots of Pilsner malt on hand and some of the other ingredients, except the dextrose which I can get from a friend who buy it by the 100 lbs..

Mars
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Re: Irish whiskey

Post by cayars »

That's funny as I was thinking about giving it a try as well.
I'm missing the 1 lb of wheat malt
1/2 lb of flaked barley

I've got unmalted wheat but none malted and all my barley is malted. :) I've got the other stuff on hand.
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Re: Irish whiskey

Post by StillerBoy »

cayars wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:53 am That's funny as I was thinking about giving it a try as well.
It will be at the beginning of January for me, as I'm got a few other thing on the go right now.. about done the corn shine (UJ style) and some neutral for pastis, which I need to make 2 batches of before my sons come over.. we just love this pastis thing..

Plus I'm just about finish making 5 batches of desert wines, the last one to be bottled the first of December, plus have 2 carboy of 1 yr old wine to bottle sometime in the next 10 days or so, as they are in the freezer right now.. then I have one of my son and his family coming over for 15 days from New Zealand, which I haven't seen for 12 yrs..

So not much free time until then for something new..

Mars
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Re: Irish whiskey

Post by cayars »

It will likely be similar for me as I'll need to pickup a couple of grains. I've got all my fermenters busy right now as well.
I've got Single Malt, Rum, light rye Bourbon mash (that will end up Neutral & vodka) in progress right now.

I just completed a Cabernet Sauvignon, Sauvignon blanc & Cranburry wine for the holidays. I had the "bright idea" to give my X wife (we're close) and my daughter and her boyfriend a couple cases of liquor (rums, vodka, gin, apple pie, cherry infused vodka, limoncello, Grand Marnier, single malt, Bourbon and rye whiskey) as well as a case of assorted wines.

The Bourbon and Rye are young tasting while everything else is nice and tasty. I'm thinking of picking up a 1.75L of Wild Turkey 101 and a bottle or same size Rye and doing a "Solara" mix for a month since I've got that left before Christmas before I have to bottle it.

I used up a lot of stock so I've got some work ahead of me. I should have thought of doing this before the end of September. I've pretty much been able to make everything I needed but had to hit up my private supply of whiskeys so not happy about that. :) I had the Sauvignon made about 9 months ago so it's a little young but tastes fine to me (not a wine snob however).

After the holidays I do want to try this, build up some more single malt, some Irish Whiskey and play with some heirloom corns as well as a few batches of rum (growing on me).

That's pretty cool you get to see family from half way around the world. Wow 12 years is a long time. Are they coming in for Christmas or before that?
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Re: Irish whiskey

Post by StillerBoy »

cayars wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:58 pm That's pretty cool you get to see family from half way around the world. Wow 12 years is a long time. Are they coming in for Christmas or before that?
Yah.. He's arriving on the Dec 14th and leaving on the 30th.. we do talk over the phone and such, but it's not like in person.. and it will be the first time meeting the grand kids 12 and 9 as they are at an age that I can relate with.. so looking forward to it showing him what distilling is about and the built I've done.. my other son with his kids will jointing us for a week also during that period of time, so there will be long days and short nights, if I can last that long.. lol

So you are a white wine lovers.. lol.. I'm red.. but of late, red wine get me tipy faster than the white, so I'm slowly switching to white which does not have the same effect on me.. I guess it old age dictating how it works.. lol..

What I've learn with wine is that white don't take as long to materity as the red do.. white's are good to bottle after 6 - 9 months, whereas red's take 12 -16 months.. so I bottle reds at the 12 months or so, and forget them for another 4 -6 months.. whereas white's I bottle around the 10 - 12 and are good after 3 - 4 months..

As to whiskey's still learn how to oak and age.. some have come out very good and some will, I recycle them.. that what this hobby is all about.. oak and ageing is an art of it's own..

What at a meet up of member last year, and most of my good were within the grade as very drinkable..

Mars
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Re: Irish whiskey

Post by cayars »

Being from NZ where home distilling is legal I say you put them to work. Hey wanna have a cocktail? OK now that you drank some, you need to help me make some. LOL

That is cool with the grand kids. Did you move from NZ to Canada or your son from Canada to NZ? Girl of dreams or work related move? That's a long, long move!

I can't think of a better way to spend Christmas than this. You are very fortunate!

I'm not really a wine lover by any means but enjoy anything with ABV I can measure. :) I prefer a bit more kick from the glass if you know what I mean. But as years pass I find the ABV of what I drink matters less and I'm exploring the profile of what I'm drinking more. So wines in general are growing on me. My x-wife didn't like reds at all (nearly instant headache) so we normally only had whites in the house. Now that she's my X and no longer the purchaser or producer of said wines I'm branching out. I've always liked all type of wines, even if not my cup of tee so to speak.

I happen to live in southern New Jersey which is part of the Outer Coastal Plain and produces some nice wines. We have a climate very similar to the better parts of France known for wines and some of the local vineyard/winery operations are winning global awards. My father (83), son (21) and I have been starting to visit different wineries and doing their tasting as well as attending wine festivals. My dad has never been a liquor drinker but a wine or beer drinker a couple of times a year but is slowly enjoying things more and more. My "wine operations" are really his, as he purchased the conical fermenters and usually purchases the ingredients for wines. Whites are usually more consumable when young so that is what we have mostly started with and as "inventory" is building we are starting to branch out to other types of wine including popular reds which I prefer with a good steak or piece of meet.

Rums, Vodka, Gin type spirits are ready is a month or so but can be drank young and can be quite tasty. Any type of whiskey on the other hand just takes time to properly age. I've learned to "like" young whiskey far more than I should, as I keep drinking my inventory to fast! I've been lately making more spirits other than whiskey that are good to drink young while I slowly stock up on different whiskeys (single malt, Bourbon, Rye, Corn) to give them a chance to age.

I was concentrating on non whiskey for quick drinks while purchasing whiskey (still cuts costs down overall costs) but have been playing with blending my own with store purchased spirits like Wild Turkey 101. 3 months of my own spirits mixed with WT101 at 25% isn't bad at all. The WT101 really helps to "mellow" and add some "age" to the taste. So that also helps to cut down cost of purchased spirits while giving me something "drinkable" at the same time. I'm starting to explore doing the same thing with single malts. Sort of like "blending" or Solera aging using a good commercial product as a cheat to start with. It's amazing how much adding 25% of something commercial (and good/great) can influence your own spirits after mixing. Give it a few weeks rest after mixing and your own spirit is now twice as good.

With whiskey you can't cheat proper aging but can blend in some older whiskey with new make to drastically alter it's profile and give it a head start in aging and profile maturity.

By the time I've got my Whisk(e)y right and tasting wonderful, I'll likely be dead. But my son and his will benefit so as long as he is helping me and wanting to partake in the the family tradition...

In 8 to 10 years when my whiskey has properly aged I might me eating my veggies through a straw, let alone drinking whiskey. LOL Hence my work toward improving short term drink-ability of something good that cuts down on commercial cost of different types of whiskeys which are my love.
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Re: Irish whiskey

Post by The Baker »

cayars said, 'In 8 to 10 years when my whiskey has properly aged I might me eating my veggies through a straw..."

Our local oldies home showed a group through the kitchen...
If you need to have your food vitamised they then arrange it on the plate so it looks (pretty much) the same shape and appearance as if it were normal.
Nice touch; something to look forward to?
I will probably be there before you.

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Re: Irish whiskey

Post by 6 Row Joe »

6 Row Joe wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:40 pm I count 26# just saying. Don't forget the 10# of 2 row.
17# of grain and 9# of sugar
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Re: Irish whiskey

Post by StillerBoy »

Question on the grains for this recipe..

On the wheat malt, I have red wheat malt and white wheat malt, which would be preferred..

On the flaked barley, I don't have, need to get some, but.. it calls for 1/2 cup, so any idea on a substitute..

Mars
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Re: Irish whiskey

Post by still_stirrin »

StillerBoy wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:11 pm Question on the grains for this recipe..

On the wheat malt, I have red wheat malt and white wheat malt, which would be preferred..

On the flaked barley, I don't have, need to get some, but.. it calls for 1/2 cup, so any idea on a substitute..
Mars,

I don’t think there is much difference in the white vs red wheat malts. The red may have a little (probably undetectable tho) more grain/bread flavor. But I think either (or both) would work just fine in this recipe. Too close to call....

A great substitute for flaked barley would be malted barley. It’s easier to lauter, if you do that in your processes, than flaked barley. But I’d think that the grocery store would have flaked barley as it is often used as an ingredient in stocked soups. But the barley malt will give you more flavor for your whiskey. So, that’s what I would use.
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Re: Irish whiskey

Post by cayars »

StillerBoy wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:11 pm Question on the grains for this recipe..

On the wheat malt, I have red wheat malt and white wheat malt, which would be preferred..

On the flaked barley, I don't have, need to get some, but.. it calls for 1/2 cup, so any idea on a substitute..

Mars
Red Wheat will contribute a nuttier (sometimes experienced as bitter) flavor. The White Wheat is usually sweeter and milder taste. For this recipe it really doesn't matter.

Instead of using flaked barley just pickup a pound bag of barley at the grocery store. Sometimes it's called pearl barley. Both are unmalted which is what the recipe is calling for. Either of these would work and should be easy to find in the $1.00 to $1.50 range.
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This recipe never mentions temps but what I'd do is warm up about half the water to about 165 F and add all unmalted grains. Let them thicken and convert to starches for 30 minutes or so then add the remaining water to drop temps to 154. Check and adjust pH if needed. At that point add remaining malts while mixing which will also drop the temps as well. You'll get good enzyme action of both alpha and beta enzymes at those temps.

While this recipe calls for a single run, I'd do a minimum of a strip and spirit run. If going for something like a Jameson or Bushmills profile you'll want to triple distill it.
Programmer specializing in process control for ExxonMobil (ethanol refinery control), WT, Omron, Bosch, Honeywell & Boeing.
More than a decade working for NASA & FAA Tech with computer code used on Space Shuttles and some airline flight recorders.
StillerBoy
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Re: Irish whiskey

Post by StillerBoy »

I will not be starting this until the first week of January, but I've got all the grains and dextrose ready..
So here what it will be for a 10 gal batch and fermented on grains..

10 lbs pilsner malt ( have lots)
1 lb white wheat malt
1 lb vienna malt
3 lbs oats (berries)
1/2 lbs pearl barley (was going to use pale malt but using pilsner, I choose not to)
6.5 oz rye flakes (calls for 1.5 cup or 6.5 oz)
9 lbs dextrose ( it may end up being less, shooting for .065 - .070 instead of .080)
10 gal water
150 gr baker's yeast ( recipe calls for distiller's yeast but have none, but have Safale 04)

Mill and mash the non malted grain first in 3 gal of water at about 170*F for and hr. or so, then lower the temp down to 160*F adding some water and add the malted grain for an hr. at 150*F.. may use high temp enzymes during mashing, my mashing pot is only a 6 gal capacity and will play it by ear, hopefully balance it out between the two. will see..

Dissolve the 7 lbs of dextrose in 3 gal of 125*F water in a 15 gall fermenter, and mashed grains after the one hr, then add enough water to the 10 gal mark, and check for SG and Ph.. shooting for a SG of .065 - .070 and Ph of 5.5.. and pitch the yeast at 95*F for baker's.. or substitute with a Safale 04 ..

Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "

– Albert Einstein
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Durhommer
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Re: Irish whiskey

Post by Durhommer »

sounds like a solid procedure
You have two ears and one mouth for a reason....
cayars
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Re: Irish whiskey

Post by cayars »

That looks about perfect Mars IMHO.
I think I'd probably use the Safale 04 if given a choice between that and bakers but might let room temp dictate what to use.

Have you thought about how you will distill it?
Programmer specializing in process control for ExxonMobil (ethanol refinery control), WT, Omron, Bosch, Honeywell & Boeing.
More than a decade working for NASA & FAA Tech with computer code used on Space Shuttles and some airline flight recorders.
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