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Are their any household substitutes that I can use to adjust the ph in my 25 gallon ujssm gen 6 ferment? Testing ph right now with test strips.

Common baking soda

Sea shells

Any guidelines for how much to put in on a 25 gallon ferment As a starting point? My colored test strip came back yellowish indicating a ph of 6.0 or weakly acid

You want your ferments to start closer to 5 or so, which means you want to add acid, not a base like baking soda. Lemons work great...

Should I trust the strips. Would a weak acid slow the ferment. Everything I've read says that ujssm needs calcium carbonate most of the time after 3 or 4 continuos ferments to reduce the acid buildup from backset. Confused.

I put sea shells from my local beach in my UJSSM. That worked for me and the pH never got out of hand.

If it's your first generation, you won't have any backset to add to reduce PH. That's why it's 6 and you need to reduce it to 5.2-5.5 (lemon juice was suggested).
As you add backset to each sequential batch, the overall PH may begin to drop, so you will need to raise it ,Calcium Carbonate, or whatever you choose to raise it.
It's all about keeping the yeast happy with a PH of 5.2 - 5.5, proper ferment temps. and nutrition.

citric acid and lactic acid are available at the brewshops. I like the liquid 88% lactic acid. Takes very little, like 1cc per gallon. Get a large syringe to use for measuring.

When I make corn heavy bourbons and dont have backset, this is what I use and it goes off fine. No issues with conversion or ferment. Dont need it with all malt recipes. Not sure about sugarheads, guessing it needs adjustment.

I use Lactic too, Also Pickling lime (Calcium hydroxide) to raise ph.... He's looking for household stuffs. It's a good Idea to order what ya need so ya always have it on hand,

frunobulax wrote:He's looking for household stuffs. It's a good Idea to order what ya need so ya always have it on hand,

yup. the right tools. Lactic acid is cheap. The brewshop by me has 5 oz bottles, 150ml, for $3, enough for 150 gallons. I havent used backset in the last few runs, just because I find this to be more consistent. 1cc/gallon and 2 tablespoons gypsum/5gallon and the enzymes and yeasties seem plenty happy.

This is generation six. I've been using 40% backset in the last five generations with no stalls or addition of chemicals. This current ferment is considerably slower than the previous ones. I sterilized and added 7 egg shells to it last night. I'm not sure why my test strips would read a 6 when the addition of backset reduces the ph

I've used 1000mg Tums in a pinch.

tp

1965 wite wrote:This is generation six. I've been using 40% backset in the last five generations with no stalls or addition of chemicals. This current ferment is considerably slower than the previous ones. I sterilized and added 7 egg shells to it last night. I'm not sure why my test strips would read a 6 when the addition of backset reduces the ph

Don't understand what you mean by "sterilized" it. Was the 6.0 PH before or after adding the egg shells? If before, you should have added some acid (lemon juice or other). If after, just add some acid to bring it back down a bit.

It was six before the addition of egg shells. ( using paper test strips). How could the ph be high (6) if backset reduces the ph? And I've been using 40%. I just washed the egg shells. That's what I meant by sterilizing. Maybe I should go get a ph meter and use that. Not sure how accurate the strips really are. Is it possible that even though I've been using that much backset that the ph could be at a six? This just doesn't make sense. My water(with no backset) tested at five (with the strips) before adding it to the wash.

Water and backset aren't the only things going into your wash.

tp

Let me make sure I have this right. To lower ph you add citric or lactic acid. To raise ph you add calcium carbonate. Backset lowers PH. So what's in the UJSSM that causes the ph to go up? Corn?

Water is a HUGE subject. The PH of your mash/Wash has very little to do with the PH of your water . It has to do with the Buffering capabilities of your water EG: Total Alkalinity. Total Alkalinity is a measure of the carbonates/bicarbonates
in your water, which also makes the water HARD or Soft. Hard water has a lot of minerals Calcium, carbonates bicarbonates so it will buffer your mash preventing a PH crash and soft water has very little alkalinity, so it will crash or drop easier.
Grains are acidic so they will drop the PH a certain amount depending on the grain and your waters Alkalinity (Buffering capabilities.) Fermenting yeast also create an acidic environment, so the ph will also drop during fermentation so if it's low to begin with, it can drop to the point where the yeast will stop working. To further complicate it, grains also have buffering capabilities, where sugar has none.
So if your PH is still very high after adding X amount of backset, you may have very hard water or crappy ph papers or........
Hope this helps a little, Ya can read this...https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/water-knowledge" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow for a real detailed explanation. It's mostly for home brewing but directly correlates to stillin' washes/mashes.

I got a coffee grinder at a yard sale for like 2 bucks, & use it to pulverize egg shells. Rinse 'em, & let 'em dry out, wait till I have shells from the whole dozen, & process them.

heynonny wrote:I got a coffee grinder at a yard sale for like 2 bucks, & use it to pulverize egg shells. Rinse 'em, & let 'em dry out, wait till I have shells from the whole dozen, & process them.

Hmmm. I've got a Bullet and six hens.

tp

looks like my wide range test strips were innacurate. picked up some beer testing strips and they read high in acid. gonna add some powdered Calcium carbonate now to balance things out. The egg shell trick worked but I should have added more. The inner membranes were floating in my was this morning. pretty cool. I knew I should of taken chemistry in high school. too busy chasing ladys and working on cars..

so thinking about trying seashells that I picked up off a beach in Puget Sound. Was gonna clean them in a bleachwater solution and add to the wash. How many shells do you normally add to your wash? and how big is your wash? Im doing about 30 gallons each ferment.

I added 100 grams of TSC oyster shell to an 8 gallon SF ferment that was hovering at about 3.5. It brought the pH up to a solid 5 in a couple of hours and seems to have stabilized at that point.

Vinegar has a pH of 3 so I tested some OS in it to be able to watch the neutralization process. Below are some pics of the process.

This shows a pH strip in vinegar at a 3. A pinch of OS in the bowl shows quick action.
After 60 seconds the strip shows a considerable pH correction and the action of the vinegar/OS has slowed significantly. The blue on the test strip is actually a bit brighter than the example on the bottle. I retested with some full-scale strips that measure from 1-14 and it is indeed at 5. What I see at this point is that the oyster shell is certainly a viable source of calcium for pH correction but my observation on the short term makes me wonder if the OS stops correction at 5 or thereabouts. Wouldn't that be cool? A bit more time on my ferment and I'll test again later today to see if the pH continues to climb.

*edit* A half hour later the vinegar sample still shows a pH of 5 and all activity in the bowl has ceased. Hmm.

tp

Looks cool. I'm gonna give it a try. Any suggestions on how much to add per gallon? I also read somewhere that using only 10-15% backset will keep your wash at the right PH levels. Read it on some other forum. Wonder if their is any truth to that.

I started with a 33g clam in 5gal UJSSM ferments, weighed it each time, and it lost 3 to 4g every ferment.

Walking out on a limb, I'll state that it almost looks like shells dissolve to a point of balance then stop dissolving. Too good to be true?
The vinegar sample above is still at about 5-5.5 pH and so is the SF wash I have going. NZChris's showings suggest the same.

tp

very interesting. Maybe your on to something there TP. I have some shells here already so I will try them first and see what happens. Oyster shells and clam shells I would think are basically the same makeup???

1965 wite wrote:Oyster shells and clam shells I would think are basically the same makeup???

YMMV.

tp

T-Pee wrote: it almost looks like shells dissolve to a point of balance then stop dissolving

Have seen similar results using powdered limestone from the hardware stores garden section, which makes sense I guess as the limestone comes from seashells and coral etc.
Not sure about 5 to 5.5 being a good ending PH for a wash, I like to see it around 4, less chance of bacteria getting a hold if you don't run the wash straight away.

badbird wrote:Not sure about 5 to 5.5 being a good ending PH for a wash, I like to see it around 4, less chance of bacteria getting a hold if you don't run the wash straight away.

Why would it if you aren't playing in it? Leave the fermenter closed and the co2 blanket takes care of that for you.

tp