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Don't use just any lead free flux! Make sure to use water soluble flux liquid if ya can.Any other is a real pain to clean out of your pipes.The paste could take several cleaning runs before it is all out of your rig.Boil in vinegar water first then clean your joints and pipes with alcohol with a brush and rag.Then do all three cleaning runs.

Aside from being a pain to clean, are there any safety issues with normal led free flux?

StillLearning1 wrote:Aside from being a pain to clean, are there any safety issues with normal led free flux?

If you don't get it cleaned out. Yes.

If you get it all cleaned out good. Then no.

I personaly use a paste flux. But I also do an acid dip after soldering. Along with the regular cleaning runs. So I don't have problems getting it cleaned out.

So great advice for those that are doing normal build pappy.

Thanks fellas that was a lesson learned the hard way on my first build.

Prairiepiss wrote:

StillLearning1 wrote:Aside from being a pain to clean, are there any safety issues with normal led free flux?

If you don't get it cleaned out. Yes.

If you get it all cleaned out good. Then no.

I personaly use a paste flux. But I also do an acid dip after soldering. Along with the regular cleaning runs. So I don't have problems getting it cleaned out.

So great advice for those that are doing normal build pappy.

++ on the acid dip.
after forgetting a vinegar run on my first build, i had some flux contamination...

i filled the column with 7% vinegar (pickling vinegar) overnight. most of the cleaning threads suggest water, vinegar wash and a sac run, and don't mention the acid bath.

i maybe went overboard with 12-14 hours at 7%, it "cleaned" the copper so well that copper dust came out with a rag pushed thru. but thorough water flushing followed by a vinegar wash, a water run and a sac run seasoned it nicely and was definitely clean.

i will add acid dip to all future builds.

great idea for a separate post to drive home the need for clean. thanks pappy!

HDNB wrote:

Prairiepiss wrote:

StillLearning1 wrote:Aside from being a pain to clean, are there any safety issues with normal led free flux?

If you don't get it cleaned out. Yes.

If you get it all cleaned out good. Then no.

I personaly use a paste flux. But I also do an acid dip after soldering. Along with the regular cleaning runs. So I don't have problems getting it cleaned out.

So great advice for those that are doing normal build pappy.

++ on the acid dip.
after forgetting a vinegar run on my first build, i had some flux contamination...

i filled the column with 7% vinegar (pickling vinegar) overnight. most of the cleaning threads suggest water, vinegar wash and a sac run, and don't mention the acid bath.

i maybe went overboard with 12-14 hours at 7%, it "cleaned" the copper so well that copper dust came out with a rag pushed thru. but thorough water flushing followed by a vinegar wash, a water run and a sac run seasoned it nicely and was definitely clean.

i will add acid dip to all future builds.

great idea for a separate post to drive home the need for clean. thanks pappy!

A clean rig is a happy rig!

I'm learning the hard way about flux! I used a non-water soluble flux and now I'm trying to clean my freshly soldered condenser. I discovered my mistake after a vinegar cleaning run. It was still filthy so I got to reading my flux choice. Sure enough, nothing about water soluble! Dang it! So, now I'm soaking in dish washing soap and water. I took a brush to the 1.5 inch side and it seems to be helping.

Can someone tell me more about the acid bath? Is it just 7% vinegar with no water?

Thx

thats what i did. just plugged the outlet and filled it to the brim and left it overnight 14 or more hours. after that soap and water, agitation, push a rag, lots of flushing out...then the vinegar, water and sac "hot runs" where you are actually using it like a still.

An alternative to the acid bath, which is muriatic, I've heard, is to use toluene. toluene (also called toluol) washes the grease flux off easily. It is very smelly, so use it outdoors and keep up-wind. Wash everything with a hose until you can't smell it.

Muriatic acid is not easy stuff to deal with either, as breathing the vapour can burn your nasal passages and lungs. Dr P, more details, please.

M

I keep a 20l bucket of citric acid solution on hand for cleaning, no idea what the concentration is now after around a year of use but an overnight soak and maybe a bit of a scribble with steel wool removes just about any kind of flux or tarnish. Citric is much safer to use than muratic etc.

Any brand recommendations? Also, what works best for repairing an existing leaky joint?

The stuff I get from Lowe's (Worthington) is horrible. It melts and runs long before the pipe is hot enough to solder and any remaining flux turns black and sticky. Ick!

We know the disadvantage (con's) of using paste: difficulty cleaning.

What are the advantages (pro's)?

lampshade wrote:We know the disadvantage (con's) of using paste: difficulty cleaning.

What are the advantages (pro's)?

Water soluble paste is easy to clean off advantage.If it is not water soluble then it is a pain no advantage.

I bought some flux from a local plumbing supply store (instead of large home repair chain), and I can't begin to say how much better it works! For one: It stays useable when the pipe heats up to soldering temperature and doesn't form an icky black gunk.

PM me for the brand name.

I think there's been an important and easy step over looked here, hot soap and water! A good old hot soap and water wash will get rid of most crap from flux and manufacturing lube used on new pipe at the factory. I worked in a metal playing dept copper, silver, and gold plating for connectors used by the military and NASA. Acid won't remove a lot of oils, so first step was soap and water in a vacuum chamber, rinse then on to an acid bath before plating. If dawn dish soap is good for nasa and an F18 it should do us good too.

SoMo wrote:I think there's been an important and easy step over looked here, hot soap and water! A good old hot soap and water wash will get rid of most crap

Hot soap and water is a great clean up after soldering... it isn't applicable during soldering, when you want the solder to flow into the area being soldered, which in my case includes repairing a leaky joint.

lampshade wrote:

SoMo wrote:I think there's been an important and easy step over looked here, hot soap and water! A good old hot soap and water wash will get rid of most crap

Hot soap and water is a great clean up after soldering... it isn't applicable during soldering, when you want the solder to flow into the area to be soldered.

Well sure neither is the acid bath, even washing manufacturing residue before soldering will help flux and solder adhere better.

SoMo wrote: Well sure neither is the acid bath, even washing manufacturing residue before soldering will help flux and solder adhere better.

One thing I have found an acid bath is good for is turning existing solder joints dark gray/black, which is not useful for repairing leaky joints. Maybe most people have a good experience with the flux they use ... I'm just saying the flux I got from Lowes is very unsatisfactory and I am happy with the flux I bought, instead, from a local plumbing supply store, which is very satisfactory.

Were you able to get your leaks fixed?

Lead-free-flux must mean the flux used for lead-free-soft-solder. These fluxes are either acidic zinc chloride, or the rosin type as used in electronics. The rosin type leaves a more stubborn residue, but is nowhere as good as the zinc chloride for big chunks of copper. Rosin is best for electronics because the residue is non-corrosive and can be left there on circit boards without cleaning up. We should be using zinc chloride flux when soft soldering on our copperware because it's a very aggressive flux (great for copper) and it's easy to clean off with a scrubbing of bi-carb.

Brazing and silver solder fluxes are another story. They melt into a type of glass which has to be cleaned off one way or another. They are toxic because of flourides and metal salts. They will dissolve slowly in water, faster in acid, and scrubbing is good.

Gotto do the cleaning runs through your still as well...no matter how clean you think it is, there are tiny bits of residues all over the place.

I've found backset works good for cleaning copper.

SoMo wrote:Were you able to get your leaks fixed?

Yes, thanks. The "good" flux seems to have gotten down in the joint. The "bad" flux just made a gooey mess.

I know man, I had to take a bunch apart to fix a tiny problem major pita. Nice when you can work it out good work.

Ayay wrote:Lead-free-flux must mean the flux used for lead-free-soft-solder. These fluxes are either acidic zinc chloride, or the rosin type as used in electronics. The rosin type leaves a more stubborn residue, but is nowhere as good as the zinc chloride for big chunks of copper. Rosin is best for electronics because the residue is non-corrosive and can be left there on circit boards without cleaning up. We should be using zinc chloride flux when soft soldering on our copperware because it's a very aggressive flux (great for copper) and it's easy to clean off with a scrubbing of bi-carb.

Brazing and silver solder fluxes are another story. They melt into a type of glass which has to be cleaned off one way or another. They are toxic because of flourides and metal salts. They will dissolve slowly in water, faster in acid, and scrubbing is good.

Gotto do the cleaning runs through your still as well...no matter how clean you think it is, there are tiny bits of residues all over the place.

Yeah I bout a flux but it dosent say lead free
I dident think that it ment there's lead in my solder

All fluxes are lead free. Lead is not a flux. Go for lead free solders and let the cleaning deal with the fluxes.

Ayay wrote:All fluxes are lead free. Lead is not a flux. Go for lead free solders and let the cleaning deal with the fluxes.

Shit thanks for that catch sometimes typing and talking things don't come out the same.I can be bad about that sometimes you are 100% correct Ayay my apology's.

I actually run a SS column, but I'm in the refrigeration business. If you clean the copper till its bright and are soldering copper to copper using 15% silver solder, then you don't need any flux. That grade of solder is actually stronger than the copper. If you flow a very low flow of nitrogen on the inside of the weld you won't get any oxidation inside to clean up.