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I love distilling. I don't like mashing. Fermenting is okay, especially with my all new heating belt. So I don't like mashing. But there's more. I hate the fact that I do not seem to be able to make a great (or at least good) UJ or corn. I am fed up with that, because I feel it is a puzzle I still need to solve. In short? It keeps bothering me, even though the cause is evident: I have no access to great corn. Only stuff I can get is feed grade that's grown in our wet climate, has plenty of proteins, and lacks in taste.

So in a few weeks I will be givng this another try. With another approach. AG without mashing, corn likker with taste. Those are the goals, and this is the approach I will take.

I found liquid, mashed corn. Organic. Two sources: one from the States, the other from Europe. In 25 kilo per bucket. Both organic. Fermentability is around 80%, so that's 20 kilo's of fermentable sugars. I will aim for 8% in the beer. When I get hold of these buckets (I hope soon), I will just add them to the left overs from my rye ferment (thrub of yeast & rye bread). The rye should go nicely next to the corn and add to the character.

Odin.

I am hoping this one works out well and ends up in the tried and true, mostly because I love the name. Subbing this thread out of interest.

I'll use a sour mash and repetitive approach on this one. A bit different from the normal sour mash approach though.

I will start up a ferment with this corn syrup on top of the rye bread / yeast bed that's left in the fermenter after I stripped the last batch of rye bread. I may add a bit of backset as well. That's for the first generation of this Lazy Bastard recipe.

I will be using a 210 liter capacity fermenter (filled to around 160, 170 liters) and my 50 liter capacity distiller.

When the fermentation is done, this is what I will do:
- Strip two times 50 liter into low wines down to 99 degrees C;
- I will take out backset from strip number two as an adjunct to fermentation cycle number two;
- Just a bit. Not like 25% or 30 to 40 liters, but rather like 15 to 20 liters;
- I will leave some backset (5 liter) in the boiler, add the low wines as well as the last part of the ferment;
- Since I find time and again that leaving some stillasge/backset in the boiler really adds to the sour mash taste. Much more than upping the % of backset to the wash;
- I will do a finishing run on that, cutting for Fores, Heads, Hearts, and Tails;
- Hearts will be aged on JD wood smoking blocks that I will toast in the oven (toasted JD wood gives a very nice note!);
- Feints (Heads & Tails) I will keep for hydroseparation and may be added to the next finishing run;
- I will use the 15 to 20 liters of backset to start up fermentation number two, on the existing yeast bed, with another 25 liters of corn syrup;
- Etcetera.

Odin.

liquid, mashed corn or corn syrup?
Odin, I'm confused.

It is corn that's been cooked (I asume) and then converted with enzymes and "cooked in". Dunno if that's the right word/expression. A process by which a lot of water is boiled off, so you are left with a thick corn soup. It is not corn syrup in the traditional sense. Like what you have in your kitchen.

Odin.

Great idea Odin! Corn syrup is the cheapest sugar available in the US thanks to subsidies. May not work in Oz because we subsidise or protect the sugar cane enough to add it to petrol.

He's using a condensed corn product not sugar, kinda like DME but corn.

Yes, you are right SoMo. Sorta ... LME? Only from corn.

Odin.

What is your source in the States?

Big R

Briess, Big R.

They export to the UK, Sweden and Norway. So I asked if I could import some to Holland. The answer was like, yeah, if you order 26,000 kilo's in one go.

I think I will stay with the UK distributer. Or the EU-based producer.

Odin.

Edit: Just ordered 5 times 25 kilo's of pure corn. Should be in in a week and a half.

Odin, try ebay (the shipping might be prohibitive though), here's just one auction.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/25lb-Cracked-Co ... 43c8a0e9d0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Thanks, but I am not looking for cracked corn now. Liquid is the approach I wanna use here. But really, thanks. If I ever try an real UJ again, it will be with American broken corn!

Odin.

Did the say what the sugar content was for that product or did I miss that some where?
Is this going to be your base mash for the pure corn Whiskey experiment ?

7.50 USD? Well, that's not what I am paying! Much less. Even though sugar or raw grains would be cheaper yet.

First, I am going to make a corn whiskey potstill style. When I have some feints, for sure I will have a go at the pure whiskey approach as well, SoMo.

Fermentable sugar content is 80%. So 25 kilo's translates to 20 kilo of fermentable sugar. Giving like 8% in a total wash of 150 liters (40 gallons).

Odin.

Corn syrup?

No ...

Liquid corn extract. Ready to ferment.

Odin.

I'm pretty happy with my sweet corn UJ, but I'm really curious to see how this turns out, too.

Ah, mr. Farmer, the word "sweet" is where my mouth starts to water! No sweet corn over here. That's my problem. But I am hopeful the organic liquid corn will get me there!

I'll keep you posted!

Odin.

Thanks my friend. I may look into that.

Big R

Odin wrote:... if you order 26,000 kilo's in one go.

That'll make a lot of liquor but I think you're up to the task.

Odin, I grow enough sweet corn in my garden every year to feed the family until next year. I blanch and freeze all of it to preserve the sugars as soon as I harvest it. I use the excess in an UJ type recipe. Makes a nice sour, corny sip after stripping and then a spirit run with backset it the still.

So is it cleared like an LME is? Or does it still have a fair amount of corn solids in it?

Interesting find Odin. Wish you luck with it.

And you know BigR gona haft to het some and try it now too. LOL

You know, Mr. P., if I think I made a good corn whiskey ... who else can be my judge but Mr. Big?

Nice to see you chime in. I know you have been busy lately. But great to see you here. It feels like we traveled along the same road for such a long time. From UJ's to our first AG's ...

"Is it cleared"? Well, what I remember of it ... is that it is like a thick "syrup", sticking to the walls of the bucket as peanut butter to one's palate. You need to warm it up a bit (the bucket) to make it more liquid. And then use some warm water to rinse the last bits out of the bucket. But there are no grain parts in it left. It's like DME only ... liquid? Well, and it ain't malt.



Odin.

rtalbigr wrote:Thanks my friend. I may look into that.

Big R

Here's a link Big R: http://www.briess.com/food/Products/nsmaltex.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

The Sorgum may be interesting too ...

Strange thing is I don't see their corn there. Hmmm ... maybe that's why I went for the other supplier.

Here's another link: http://www.midwestsupplies.com/briess-g ... -pail.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I think the CBW's are actually not the right path to take, since they are beer wort, so there are unfermentable dextrins there that will lower the yield yet not come over as sweet tasty components in hard likker, where they do in a beer.

On the other hand ... you may use a Bret type ("horseblanket") yeast. That will chew up those dextrins as well and piss them out as alcohol. Does give off a strange smell / taste at room temp, so if you go Bret ... you need to drink it cooled. Railing off topic here.

Odin.

My sister- and brother-in-law make a white dog with nothing but LME, nutrients, and yeast, and it seems to have some residual sweetness from the unfermented sugars.

SoMo wrote:He's using a condensed corn product not sugar, kinda like DME but corn.

OK, so is DME and LME a kind of molasses of corn syrup? High in sugar plus full of corn goodness?

That's the idea, Ayay!

Odin.

Ayay wrote:

SoMo wrote:He's using a condensed corn product not sugar, kinda like DME but corn.

OK, so is DME and LME a kind of molasses of corn syrup? High in sugar plus full of corn goodness?

LME is liquid malt extract. It is condensed AG mashed malt wort. A very thick liquid grain sugar.

DME is dry malt extract. Same as above but dehydrated into a powder.

So basically a company will take a particular grain/malt and mash it. Then take the liquid wort and boil it down to a syrup. Or dehydrate it to a powder.

Prairiepiss wrote:

Ayay wrote:

SoMo wrote:He's using a condensed corn product not sugar, kinda like DME but corn.

OK, so is DME and LME a kind of molasses of corn syrup? High in sugar plus full of corn goodness?

LME is liquid malt extract. It is condensed AG mashed malt wort. A very thick liquid grain sugar.

DME is dry malt extract. Same as above but dehydrated into a powder.

So basically a company will take a particular grain/malt and mash it. Then take the liquid wort and boil it down to a syrup. Or dehydrate it to a powder.

So, what Odin is using is LME made from corn wort?

Yep. Something like that. It will be in in a week or so. You add water, you add yeast, and off you go.

Regards, Odin.