3 inch CCVM question.

[Dude2008]

Hello all
I have been running a 2.5 inch ccvm with 40 inch column. I have recently finished a 3 inch by 46 inch column. I have a question as to if there is any advantage to use this column packed with lava rock below my 2.5 inch tee and Dad's condenser to run my feints. The volume of the 3 inch column is about 40% void with the lava rock so I thought it would not increase the vapor speed enough to over run the condenser that I have already. This is going on a 15.5 gal keg with 4 inch tri clamp top. Electric heat with 5500 watt ULWD element with a jimbo controller. To define the question should I use a 3 inch tee or try it with the 2.5 inch tee and condessor that I have now.
Thanks for any input.

[DAD300]

For sure try it with the 2.5". Just remember that the max take off and min reflux ratio will be above 1:1.

Not knowing your reflux condenser...you can increase water flow if needed to compensate for increase vapor.

Worse situation is you have to reduce power if the increased ABV boiler charge (feints) make for more vapor.

[Dude2008]

Dad thanks for the reply. My reflux condensor is corrugated ss tube. It has about 12-14 coils. My product condensor is the same tubing coiled inside a 5 inch tube about 1 ft long. With the 2.5 inch column the RC can put it into full reflux with little water flow. Also I can drop the bottom of the RC well below the takeoff if extra cooling surface is needed. I am going to run it and see how it drives.

[DAD300]

Sounds like it will work fine.

Before I could get a 4" "T", I have done almost the same with a 3" "T" on top of a 4" column...work fine.

[Dude2008]

Good to hear from some one that runs a ccvm. I have really found that it is quick and produces high quality product even with me still trying to climb the learning curve. Tonight I am trying out a 16 inch long 2.5 dia column packed with marbles. Running it ccvm with panela rum I hope to make a one pass nice rum.

[Dude2008]

As an update it is hard to keep the take off below 80%. You really have to raise the reflux condensor above the tee and slow down the cooling. I am not sure why I have used the 40 inch column when this seems to work great.

[Dude2008]

This is the short column in use as a ccvm.

[Dude2008]

With a picture of the strength.

[Dude2008]

Well I guess at the heart of most experiments failure is lurking about. Never could get the ABV down and left most of the flavor in the boiler. What a waste of panela.

[DAD300]

NO....keep collecting until the abv drops...collect deep into the tails and then figure out what and how much to mix back in...this is not a failure.

Look for Odin's post on making perfect whiskey.

You just keep collecting down to at least 30%. There will be a stream of tails good...bad and then good again. Somewhere in the middle will be a jar of oily crap, followed by better. Toss the crap and blend some of the other that tastes fair back into the hearts. Save the rest for feints to be distilled again.

Also, after the hearts are aired and oaked, they will have a lot more flavor than you are getting now.

[Dude2008]

Thanks for the help and encouragement. I did collect deep into the tails and after twenty four hrs I will water it way down and try to make cuts. I collected it in about 200 ml increments.
I think for ccvm with flavor the condensor that you designed is to efficient. I need to make one with a longer single loop drop at the bottom so that I can slow down the reflux close to the take off tee.

[Dude2008]

Dad
I was thinking of a condensor that like this to reduce reflux. I think this would spread up take off with a little lower ABV while the tighter coils above the single loop would not permit vapor to escape out the top. I am shooting for a take off strength of 70%.
Do you think this has a chance of working?

[Dude2008]

Forgot to add pic.

[S-Cackalacky]

Dude, I'm really looking forward to seeing how this turns out. The CCVM will be my next build and first reflux. Controlling ABV (and flavor) would be a neat trick to pull out of the hat. Thanks for starting this thread.

[DAD300]

That's a lot of tail.

DO NOT let the tip of the condenser come in contact with the top of the packing. It will cause a flood at the top.

[Dude2008]

Thanks Clack
I am running now with a grain based sugar wash that was 10%.
I am using the condessor posted with the change that Dad mentioned ( shortened the tail a bit )
This is a 16 inch 2.5 inch column packed with .400 dia marbles.
Boiler is a 15.5 keg with 4 inch tri lamp top connection. I made a 4 X2.5 adapter on my lathe.
The problem is getting the ABV Dow below 80% without losing vapor out the top.
I think it is a ratio of tip length on the condensor distance of coils on the condessor to the top of the pipe that the reflux condensor rides in.
Or I need less packing.
I am going to keep trying small changes until I get it worked out. Looking for just over cask strength with some flavor. The Grail another words.

[S-Cackalacky]

Couldn't you accomplish the same thing by simply running it as a pot still? Seems like it would be easy to do with a CCVM. This would give you the flavor and ABV you're looking for.

[Dude2008]

I have been trying to get this result with a pot still for some time. What I am really trying for is 70% in one pass with some heads compression. All the runs I have made with one pass on a pot results in about 53% after cuts. I am just trying to avoid the second run so I can run one pass and age between 60-70%.
I believe that the ccvm can make this happen just have to keep hitting all the angles.

[Chroi]

I have been trying to get this result with a pot still for some time. What I am really trying for is 70% in one pass with some heads compression. All the runs I have made with one pass on a pot results in about 53% after cuts. I am just trying to avoid the second run so I can run one pass and age between 60-70%.
I believe that the ccvm can make this happen just have to keep hitting all the angles.

1. Add a thumper to your potstill. I get 140 proof hearts from a very conservative UJSSM wash (5-6%) in a single run with water in the thumper. Add feints to the thumper or strip first and you're looking at high 170's.

or

2. Detune your CCVM even further (shorter column, less packing, less efficient packing, lower reflux ratio, etc)

[Dude2008]

I am currently working to complete a 7.5 gallon thumper. For the time being I am going to reduce the amount of marbles in the column by half and try that.
Thanks for the reply.

[DAD300]

Read this...

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... ct+whiskey

You can mix the cuts as you want even if you distill at a higher ABV. Thus you get to control the final product by taste, after distilling, rather than hoping smearing at a lower ABV gets you where you want to go.

I did this this weekend. I stripped 13 gallons of AG oat ferment, I cut some heads and tails and came away with a gallon of 65%. I added that to another 13 gallons mash and distilled the heads and hearts at 95%, tails coming 90-85%. I stopped collecting at 85% as the tails were getting skunky. Even at 85% the skunk was there.

Had 7 quarts of product, tossed fores 1st quart was heads, number 7 had just a tad of tails taste. So, I aired it all over night. Then mixed the six quarts. Six quarts (192 oz) at approx 92% plus 60oz filtered water 252 oz for beautiful AG Oat white dog in to glass jars.

So Dude...the percent you take off product at, has little to do with keeping or excluding flavor. Taking product at a higher ABV lets you make a better heads cut, thus preventing the dreaded headache. Now, the flavor of the Ferment is in the tails...just after the ABV starts to drop and before the skunk starts to take over.

Next, I worried about you criticizing your white dog just off the still.

The AG oat I described above smell terrible just off the still. Smelled entirely dif the next morning. And six weeks from now after oaking at 65% with a few of raisins and a couple of dried cherries in it, I'll cut a portion to 50%...it will be Perfect Oat Whiskey and continue to get better.

I do much the same for rum, run entire thing at 95%, collecting tails down to skunk. Then I separate out the best of the hearts for Silver Rum (Vodka) and mix the rest of the hearts and tails to taste for rum. I oak my rum and add a few drops of sherry (just like the Caribbean guys use old sherry casks), maybe a drop of simple syrup, cherries, raisins,...what ever floats your boat.

Taking off at a high ABV doesn't eliminate the flavor, it just keeps it in the tails.

[still_stirrin]

Good words Dad.
Thanks for the explanation.
ss

[Dude2008]

Dad
Thanks very much for your well thought out and in depth explanation. I will take this advice to heart and work towards getting a better understand and compatance with this. Again I do appreciate your time that was spent answering this.

[casper the Irish]

+1
Glad this is up on the wall to read