Booner's Casual All Corn

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WillC
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by WillC »

Soooo.....Followed the directions for everything. I have the large Bayou Classic with the perforated false bottom. i covered the false bottom with a mesh bucket strainer.
10 gallons. Flaked corn. Made pudding. Added the first enzyme and it turned back into water. Stirred for a while and went to bed because it was late.
Next morning slowly brought the temp back up than added the next enzyme. Oh, the PH was 4.7 after i checked with my new PH meter and added some citric acid. Covered well and let sit over night. This morning a nice golden color and SWEET and sticky. Drained it and the mesh worked well, no corn but a light golden color water. I didnt squeeze it, i added hot water and stirred and rinsed until i filled my fermenter to 10 gallons. I had taken a bowl out for my yeast started and within 10 min it was foaming up.
So i have all this corn still left in the boiler and I am boiling back up and will make a 5 gallon sugar/corn wash.
House smells of corn.
I had used enzymes with corn before. I never got it this sweet and corny with just boiling feed corn to a pulp.
Using the flaked and adjusting the PH is the major difference
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by FL Brewer »

I've got a batch of this started, kind of my own spin on the original recipe. I brought 6 gallons of RO water with 1 tablespoon gypsum to a boil on my propane burner, add 20 lbs cracked corn, immediately reducing the flame to as low as it will go. I know this is a lot of corn for 6 gallons of water, but it just about fills my brewing pot to the brim, and that's the biggest pot I've got. I cook the corn for a good three hours at low heat, then turn off the heat. Temp gets down to SebStar HTL compatible temps pretty quick, I put in 10 ml once the temp is below 90C. Wrap a big old beach towel around and over the pot, and it holds for a good three or four hours before getting down to about 75C, at which time I add a gallon of bourbon backset, stir it in well, which gets the temp down to 65C (kept the backset frozen, it has just been thawed and is around 0C), and I add 10 ml SebAmyl GL. The thick corn mash thins out considerably with the addition of the SebStar, and gets really, really sweet after the SebAmyl addition.

Once the temp got down to 30C, I added a heaping tablespoon of baker's yeast. The stuff is fermenting like mad! After about 3 days as the fermentation slowed a little bit, and the flavor was much less sweet, I added 5 lbs white sugar dissolved in a gallon of water with a quarter teaspoon of citric acid. That was two days ago (adding the sugar) and it is still fermenting very strongly, still a bit sweet, but definitely attenuating. I stir it every day; I took a little sample of the corn out today and chewed on it to try to gauge how much starch I was leaving in the hulls.... I don't think it's very much, probably because of the three hour cook time.

Five days after pitching the yeast it's still fermenting strongly. My thoughts on adding the sugar later was to avoid having too high a sugar content; I let most of the corn sugar ferment away before adding the white sugar. I will strain everything through the paint strainer bag that I put in my fruit press, and use that to extract all the liquid possible from the mash. I've used the same procedure for bourbon (wheat and malted barley making up about 40% of the grain bill, 20 lbs grain total, 5 lbs sugar), and it seems to work well.

It usually takes almost two weeks to ferment out and clear when I do bourbon or rice whiskey (whole long grain white rice, cooked). My guess is that with the cracked corn or whole rice, even well cooked, all the starch doesn't convert at high temps and conversion is going on in parallel with the fermentation. I'm assuming this all corn recipe will ferment similarly to my other 20 lbs of grain recipes, will post again when I do the stripping run and let you know my yield.
Last edited by FL Brewer on Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by FL Brewer »

BTW, I should have mentioned I'm a HUGE fan of the SebStar and SebAmyl enzymes. I have only used backset to drop the pH before adding the SebAmyl (I don't have a pH meter), and the enzymes seem to give me a really good starch reduction. The spent grains after pressing seem to be almost all fiber and a little protein (based on my non calibrated taste buds).
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by FL Brewer »

It's been over a week, and the corn is still fermenting, the mostly spent grain is settling on the bottom, but the liquid is cloudy and there are still bubbles coming up. The mash still tastes like I expect (dry, a bit of alcohol, no unusual or bad flavors), so I don't think there's any secondary fermentation going on, I think the enzymes are still converting the last of the starch in the corn. I am stirring every day. We've been having some cold weather here, so I think that is slowing things down a bit.
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by River Rat »

That sure is a lot of corn for 6 gallons, especially when using liquid enzymes. I'm curious, did you take a SG reading?
With the cold weather you could speed it up by making a little tent over your ferment with blankets or insulation and stick 75 or 100 watt light bulb in there. Works like a charm for me, then I just roll up the insulation and stick it back on the shelf. I guess you don't have to worry about that too often in FL though!
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by FL Brewer »

Hi River Rat. Yeah, it is a high corn to water ratio, and I did add another gallon (with the sugar) when it was in the fermenter. I just can't fit any more in my BOP. I make bourbon and malt whiskey with the same method (12 lbs of corn, 8 lbs of wheat/barley malt/rye, or 20 lbs of malted barley), and I get nothing but grain husks left when the ferment is done. Same thing when using 20 lbs of rice, nothing left but a rice protein mush, and not a lot of that.

I didn't take an SG reading because it wasn't liquid enough to get a meaningful reading, and I'm pretty sure the starch conversion keeps going throughout the ferment, which is why it goes as long as two weeks. I have taken SG readings at the end of my bourbon ferments, they are usually in the 0.995-0.996 range.

The fermenter is in a finished rec room in my barn, no heat, but it is well insulated. I turn on the oven to 200F and leave the door cracked open and that can keep the room 15-20 degrees F warmer than outside. I checked the temperature of the mash and it was 65F, a little less than optimum for baker's yeast, but should still keep going, and I'm in no hurry. Should have used ale yeast if I had known it was gonna be this cold, but I use baker's yeast out of habit, it's usually hot enough I have to run the AC to keep the temp below 80F where this stuff is fermenting.

I think the next time I do another mash with all corn, I'll cook it in two batches; my fermenter is plenty big enough handle 15 gallons, and that would yield a low enough volume of beer to fit in my half barrel keg boiler
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by FL Brewer »

I did my stripping run on my batch of (mostly) all corn, got just a hair under 2 gal of 47.2% ABV low wines (from 20 lbs cracked corn and 5 lbs sugar). There is a very nice sweet corn flavor and aroma in the low wines, much more than in my bourbon. The spent grain did have some starch left, so cracked corn straight out of the bag could probably benefit from being milled down further. I think if would also benefit from being cooked in more water, I'm gonna cook in two batches so I can fit more water in my BOP from now on.

I bought a 50 lb bag of course ground corn meal, so I'm gonna do the equivalent recipe, 20 lbs corn meal and 5 lbs sugar, and see what I get. Finer grind and more water when cooking should get me another half gallon of low wines vs. the cracked corn single batch cook version. I'll let you know how that turns out. I'll add the low wines from the cracked corn mash and one or two batches of the corn meal batch into a single spirit run, that should give me 3-4 gallons of barrel strength to go in the attic for aging after a month of freezer to sink temp cycling.
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Honest_Liberty »

Trying this again. Going to grind the feed cracked corn in the roller Mill 3 times, then I'll upload the photos and see if folks suggest running it through the grain mill attachment on my KitchenAid.
Going to start with 1.5lb/gallon
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Oldvine Zin »

FL Brewer wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:43 am I did my stripping run on my batch of (mostly) all corn, got just a hair under 2 gal of 47.2% ABV low wines (from 20 lbs cracked corn and 5 lbs sugar). There is a very nice sweet corn flavor and aroma in the low wines, much more than in my bourbon. The spent grain did have some starch left, so cracked corn straight out of the bag could probably benefit from being milled down further. I think if would also benefit from being cooked in more water, I'm gonna cook in two batches so I can fit more water in my BOP from now on.

I bought a 50 lb bag of course ground corn meal, so I'm gonna do the equivalent recipe, 20 lbs corn meal and 5 lbs sugar, and see what I get. Finer grind and more water when cooking should get me another half gallon of low wines vs. the cracked corn single batch cook version. I'll let you know how that turns out. I'll add the low wines from the cracked corn mash and one or two batches of the corn meal batch into a single spirit run, that should give me 3-4 gallons of barrel strength to go in the attic for aging after a month of freezer to sink temp cycling.
Why are you adding sugar to a all corn recipe? It is tried and true if you follow the original recipe.

Stay safe
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Honest_Liberty »

I forgot to add photos of my grind to this thread, in case folks want to comment for visuals for those researching.

3 through roller Mill, then once through the kitchenaid mill set at halfway:


image7.jpg
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Durhommer »

I'm thinking about this one again I only have one gal of corn likker now
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Zeotropic »

Durhommer wrote:I'm thinking about this one again I only have one gal of corn likker now
It is good stuff. I am sipping some 2 week old white right now. It is really nice.
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Durhommer »

Mine is still on wine wood I have angels yeast now and enzymes I'm thinking about the easy route with the yeast
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Honest_Liberty »

So I got the incorrect Gluco, far as I can tell. with 1.5#/gallon milled corn to meal and flour, 7.5# for 6 gallon total volume with corn, I hit 1.050. not a full starch conversion because I incorrectly purchased Novozymes AG300L. it didn't work.

I had to drive across town to grab a lb of dry gluco from Mile High (great folks over there), boiled 3 gallons and added it back in the fermenter. Temp was 142.5F. I added another 1/4 tsp of citric acid to ensure I was smack in the middle of the pH range.

Hopefully this does it but now I'm wondering if it tears through the remaining starches and converts, will my hydrometer go up, or did I only access 1.050 worth of fermentable sugars? I don't quite understand if starches read the same way as fermentable sugars on the hydrometer.
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by still_stirrin »

Honest_Liberty wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:31 pm...now I'm wondering if it tears through the remaining starches and converts, will my hydrometer go up, or did I only access 1.050 worth of fermentable sugars?

I don't quite understand if starches read the same way as fermentable sugars on the hydrometer.
The hydrometer measures density relative to water, or rather “specific gravity”. It does not measure starches versus “fermentable” sugars, or even un-fermentable sugars. Obviously, dissolved solids, ie - corn “slurry” will add to the density, thereby creating a false reading of potential sugar.

To measure the starch present in the mash, you pull a little drop or two of the liquid (not the grist) and put a drop of iodine on it. It will remain amber colored if the starches are converted. But it will turn dark purple, or almost black if you still have unconverted starch present. So, maintain mash temperatures, stirring occasionally and keep checking until you get the iodine to remain amber colored.

If your enzymes are “sluggish”, it could take a while. That’s why we recommend the liquid enzymes...they work quite quickly, although a 100% corn mash will surely take a long time to fully convert. If fermenting “on the grain”, often brewers will pitch yeast before it’s fully converted and let the enzymes continue to work in the fermenter.

Corn is a tricky cereal grain to work with. Good luck.
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Honest_Liberty »

still_stirrin wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:46 pm
Honest_Liberty wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:31 pm...now I'm wondering if it tears through the remaining starches and converts, will my hydrometer go up, or did I only access 1.050 worth of fermentable sugars?

I don't quite understand if starches read the same way as fermentable sugars on the hydrometer.
The hydrometer measures density relative to water, or rather “specific gravity”. It does not measure starches versus “fermentable” sugars, or even un-fermentable sugars. Obviously, dissolved solids, ie - corn “slurry” will add to the density, thereby creating a false reading of potential sugar.

To measure the starch present in the mash, you pull a little drop or two of the liquid (not the grist) and put a drop of iodine on it. It will remain amber colored if the starches are converted. But it will turn dark purple, or almost black if you still have unconverted starch present. So, maintain mash temperatures, stirring occasionally and keep checking until you get the iodine to remain amber colored.

ahhhh. man, I had amber today, no black. I assumed it had to completely dissapear into the color of the fluid. I was thinking the reading of 1.050 at 1.5#/gallon was too low and it needed to convert more starches and the hydrometer reading would rise.

If your enzymes are “sluggish”, it could take a while. That’s why we recommend the liquid enzymes...they work quite quickly, although a 100% corn mash will surely take a long time to fully convert. If fermenting “on the grain”, often brewers will pitch yeast before it’s fully converted and let the enzymes continue to work in the fermenter.

then I'm going to transfer this into my fermenting bucket, set it outside to crash the temps and ferment this.
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by FL Brewer »

[/quote]

Why are you adding sugar to a all corn recipe? It is tried and true if you follow the original recipe.

Stay safe
OVZ
[/quote]

Hey OVZ,

Just trying to add a bit to the product output without diluting the corn taste too much. I've been fermenting stuff for a long time, i'm comfortable tweaking what goes into the fermenter, but mashing all corn was new for me; I've done bourbon, all malt, all rice, but never all corn. Limited to the pot size I've got, and was successful with my method of cooking with 50% corn grain bill or all rice, but looks like I need to keep to the two pounds of grain to a gallon of water guideline for all corn (yeah, that's why the guidelines exist.....) When I do the corn meal and correct water/corn ratio, I'll compare the yield with my sub optimum method and that will give an idea of how much you lose from the grind and water not being right.

Can anybody chime in with their expected yield, x gallons/liters from y pounds of corn......? Wondering how far off I am.

FB
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Zeotropic »

FL Brewer wrote:
Why are you adding sugar to a all corn recipe? It is tried and true if you follow the original recipe.

Stay safe
OVZ
[/quote]

Hey OVZ,

Just trying to add a bit to the product output without diluting the corn taste too much. I've been fermenting stuff for a long time, i'm comfortable tweaking what goes into the fermenter, but mashing all corn was new for me; I've done bourbon, all malt, all rice, but never all corn. Limited to the pot size I've got, and was successful with my method of cooking with 50% corn grain bill or all rice, but looks like I need to keep to the two pounds of grain to a gallon of water guideline for all corn (yeah, that's why the guidelines exist.....) When I do the corn meal and correct water/corn ratio, I'll compare the yield with my sub optimum method and that will give an idea of how much you lose from the grind and water not being right.

Can anybody chime in with their expected yield, x gallons/liters from y pounds of corn......? Wondering how far off I am.

FB[/quote]

I am very new at this but I got 1/2 gallon of final product from 50lb of ground corn and I didn't adjust the ph correctly on the first batch.
It is amazing it tastes so good even though it is white and not aged. I am looking forward to tasting it after aging.

Edit: I have no idea what went wrong with that quote.



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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by FL Brewer »

Cooked another batch yesterday, 20 lbs of course ground corn meal in 10 gallons of water (two batches in my 8 gal. BOP). Almost instant liquidization when I added the Sebstar HTL at about 80C. Added cold backset a couple hours later, and at 60C, the Sebamyl GL and over the next couple of hours the whole mash turned sweet and the clear liquid separated on top. Aerated and sprinkled bread yeast on the top this morning, and had a foamy yeast head in 15 minutes. This might be interesting to sparge, I usually use a mesh paint straining bag inside my fruit press, let as much liquid run out on its own as I can, then press. Worked great with cracked corn, but I don't know if the tiny husk particles in the meal will be small enough to get through the mesh bag. Will report back when I get to that stage and can compare the yield for the same amount of corn ground finer and with more water while cooking vs. the previous batch.
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Honest_Liberty »

FL Brewer wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:24 pm

Can anybody chime in with their expected yield, x gallons/liters from y pounds of corn......? Wondering how far off I am.


If you have a ten gallon wash at 6%, which I think is definitely consistently achieved under this method at 1.5#/gallon, better if you do better, then I understand that as .6 gallons total pure ethanol per ten gallons, which of course there's going to be other nasties in there and you're only going to maybe get 85% efficiency collected.

I think you could expect 1-1.2 gallon at 37-40% low wines, with 15lbs grain of cracked and milled corn.

If you monitor this thread, I'm going to be doing yet another attempt at Booner's on a ten gallon batch. However, I have 9 gallons of high rye bourbon using Booner's, and 30 gallons of gumballhead to strip before I can get to this again. I'm going to go for another 1.5lb/gallon until I'm able to maximize conversion.

In the OP you'll see woodshed was pulling 9% at 1.8lb/gallon, but he wasn't using feed grade as many on here do, such as myself, which is lesser quality and likely less fermentable sugars available in the grain. At 1.5lb/gallon, I've only been able to pull 1.050. I'm hoping to get that to 1.055 next time, but we'll see. The enzymes liquefy immediately.
Last edited by Honest_Liberty on Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Honest_Liberty »

FL Brewer wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:30 am Cooked another batch yesterday, 20 lbs of course ground corn meal in 10 gallons of water (two batches in my 8 gal. BOP). Almost instant liquidization when I added the Sebstar HTL at about 80C. Added cold backset a couple hours later, and at 60C, the Sebamyl GL and over the next couple of hours the whole mash turned sweet and the clear liquid separated on top. Aerated and sprinkled bread yeast on the top this morning, and had a foamy yeast head in 15 minutes. This might be interesting to sparge, I usually use a mesh paint straining bag inside my fruit press, let as much liquid run out on its own as I can, then press. Worked great with cracked corn, but I don't know if the tiny husk particles in the meal will be small enough to get through the mesh bag. Will report back when I get to that stage and can compare the yield for the same amount of corn ground finer and with more water while cooking vs. the previous batch.
Did you take a gravity reading?
I use a mop wringer and grain bag and it's been fairly simple and quick-ish
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by FL Brewer »

Honest_Liberty wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:12 am
FL Brewer wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:30 am Cooked another batch yesterday, 20 lbs of course ground corn meal in 10 gallons of water (two batches in my 8 gal. BOP). Almost instant liquidization when I added the Sebstar HTL at about 80C. Added cold backset a couple hours later, and at 60C, the Sebamyl GL and over the next couple of hours the whole mash turned sweet and the clear liquid separated on top. Aerated and sprinkled bread yeast on the top this morning, and had a foamy yeast head in 15 minutes. This might be interesting to sparge, I usually use a mesh paint straining bag inside my fruit press, let as much liquid run out on its own as I can, then press. Worked great with cracked corn, but I don't know if the tiny husk particles in the meal will be small enough to get through the mesh bag. Will report back when I get to that stage and can compare the yield for the same amount of corn ground finer and with more water while cooking vs. the previous batch.
Did you take a gravity reading?
I use a mop wringer and grain bag and it's been fairly simple and quick-ish
There really wasn't any clear liquid to measure; I thought that with all the suspended solids and the fact that I was counting on more enzyme action in parallel with the fermentation, it wouldn't be very meaningful.
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

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Honest_Liberty wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:12 am
FL Brewer wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:30 am Cooked another batch yesterday, 20 lbs of course ground corn meal in 10 gallons of water (two batches in my 8 gal. BOP). Almost instant liquidization when I added the Sebstar HTL at about 80C. Added cold backset a couple hours later, and at 60C, the Sebamyl GL and over the next couple of hours the whole mash turned sweet and the clear liquid separated on top. Aerated and sprinkled bread yeast on the top this morning, and had a foamy yeast head in 15 minutes. This might be interesting to sparge, I usually use a mesh paint straining bag inside my fruit press, let as much liquid run out on its own as I can, then press. Worked great with cracked corn, but I don't know if the tiny husk particles in the meal will be small enough to get through the mesh bag. Will report back when I get to that stage and can compare the yield for the same amount of corn ground finer and with more water while cooking vs. the previous batch.
Did you take a gravity reading?
I use a mop wringer and grain bag and it's been fairly simple and quick-ish
So, you're saying that the grain bag is fine enough to hold in the husk from coarse ground corn meal? I think I have one buried in my supplies, will have to find it when I get home, but didn't remember it being any finer than the paint strainer bag.
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Honest_Liberty »

FL Brewer wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:46 am
So, you're saying that the grain bag is fine enough to hold in the husk from coarse ground corn meal? I think I have one buried in my supplies, will have to find it when I get home, but didn't remember it being any finer than the paint strainer bag.
The one I have has always been plenty good. The wash is super cloudy, and the last strip was the first time I ever had residual caking on the bottom of the boiler, even with diffuser using propane. Didn't scorch but I ran that thing faster than I ever have before.

The mop wringer makes quick work. I pour all liquid from top with colander sitting on top of boiler, then put bag in wringer, angled with 4x4 posts just in front of the rear wheels to angle it so I don't lose much wash at all, then strain. It's not perfect. My best boiler will have an agitator so I never have to deal with this again.
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Zeotropic »

I couldn't think of a better place to share this but I thought it was too funny not to share. I used the fore shots from my first batch of booner's casual all corn in my windshield washer fluid tank because I needed something to up the freeze resistance in this recent cold because our washer fluid available here was on the verge of freezing. I have to say I'm pretty sure my washer fluid smells better than any non distillers washer fluid.[emoji1787]
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Honest_Liberty »

Zeotropic wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:01 pm I couldn't think of a better place to share this but I thought it was too funny not to share. I used the fore shots from my first batch of booner's casual all corn in my windshield washer fluid tank because I needed something to up the freeze resistance in this recent cold because our washer fluid available here was on the verge of freezing. I have to say I'm pretty sure my washer fluid smells better than any non distillers washer fluid.[emoji1787]
Ha! I bet
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Honest_Liberty »

So much easier to wring this through a mop ringer than when using grains along with it
Sweetfeed 100 proof for drinking white
All grain bourbon for testing my patience
Whatever else is left goes to the Homefree, because, I hate waste
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FL Brewer
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by FL Brewer »

Honest_Liberty wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:21 pm So much easier to wring this through a mop ringer than when using grains along with it
Agree completely.... I use a paint straining bag in my fruit press; same idea, but I can get just about every last drop of liquid out of the mash.
Everyone has to believe in something. Me? I believe I'll have another drink......
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BlackStrap
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by BlackStrap »

SEBStar and SEBamyl GL Enzymes arrived Thursday.

Ground up whole kernel corn, not sure of the variety...(I gave a fellow a quart of UJSSM and he gave me 100lbs corn.)

The corn is dent type, the fellow said, he was unable to sell it at the feed store due to the occasional black dark purple kernels 10-15 / every 1000
Jasons-Corn.jpg

Doing two 10 gallon batches...smaller batches are easier for me to handle.
CookingCorn-2021-1.jpg
CookingCorn-2021-2.jpg
CookingCorn-2021-3.jpg

At 2 lbs corn / gallon of water The refractometer is giving a SG reading of 1.065
First time using enzymes... Usually I just malt barley, but the feed mill does have any "untreated" barley (that's another story)
So far I'm impressed with the enzymes (5.4 ml SEBStar HTL and 5.4 ml SEBamyl GL for a 10 gallon batch),
decent gravity readings, tastes sweet and it passed the iodine test
This will be fermented on the grain and then some of the fermented grain back into the thumper when it comes time to run it.
Most questions can be answered here http://homedistiller.org/ and here http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=46

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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by The Baker »

Pretty coat on the boiler, blackstrap.

Geoff
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