Why malt corn?

[touchmydrumset]

This is my first post outside of the welcome center, so I hope I dont sound like a complete bone head.

From what I understand, malting grain is done to release the enzymes required to convert starches to sugar. Also, corn does have possess these enzymes.
So, why malt corn? Why not just add malted barely to gellentanized corn?

I hope I did not miss use the term malt, as I am under the notion that it is simply grain that has begun to sprout and stopped once the enzymes have been released.

[bellybuster]

Malted corn allows you to do an all corn mash without using liquid or powdered enzymes

[MichiganCornhusker]

You are using the term correctly.
You're right, you don't need to malt corn to make whiskey. Adding malted barley to gellatinized corn will do the job of mashing just fine.
But, sometimes you might want to make a recipe without barley, or maybe just don't want the expense of buying malted barley. That's where malting corn comes in.
Besides, malting corn can be a very rewarding process in itself!
Corn malt also produces a whiskey with a different flavor than non-malted corn. You can make good whiskey with a variety of malted grains for sources of enzymes, or you can even use liquid enzymes.

edit: posted while bellybuster was posting

[touchmydrumset]

I had read that malted corn does not have the enzymes. is that incorrect?

[touchmydrumset]

ok, so malting the corn is not for releasing enzymes(thats arent present anyways). its to release the starches?

[shadylane]

I had read that malted corn does not have the enzymes. is that incorrect?

Malted corn has enzymes, but less than barley.
Malted Barley has enough enzymes to convert several times it's weight.
Malted corn can only convert itself.

[MichiganCornhusker]

ok, so malting the corn is not for releasing enzymes(thats arent present anyways). its to release the starches?

The malting process doesn't really "release" enzymes. In any grain including corn, malting develops enzymes. Unmalted grains don't contain enzymes and don't have any ability to convert starches to sugars.

[shadylane]

ok, so malting the corn is not for releasing enzymes(thats arent present anyways). its to release the starches?

No

[MichiganCornhusker]

I had read that malted corn does not have the enzymes. is that incorrect?

Malted corn does have enzymes.
As Shadylane points out, malted corn has less power to convert starches than malted barley, but it does contain enzymes. Research Diastatic Power to learn how various grains can contribute enzymes to the mash.

[touchmydrumset]

I understand. Thank yall for this information i really appreciate it.
I was a little cloudy on this subject. now i realize i need to spend some more time researching how grains develope

[touchmydrumset]

Thanks for the Diastatic Power advice. a quick search and i have found a lot of information. this will come in handy

[MichiganCornhusker]

I understand. Thank yall for this information i really appreciate it.
I was a little cloudy on this subject. now i realize i need to spend some more time researching how grains develope

It will be very rewarding research, malting and enzymes are two of the most fundamental pieces of magic in the whole process! Good luck.

[touchmydrumset]

I agree. its a fascinating topic. i will learn a great deal with this

[touchmydrumset]

Wow. I had no idea malts are measured in a degree *L.
the more i read the more excited i get to get my own operation running

[bellybuster]

Keep in mind though that corn needs to be gelatinized and that kind of heat will denature the enzymes. More research...haha

[MichiganCornhusker]

Keep in mind though that corn needs to be gelatinized and that kind of heat will denature the enzymes. More research...haha

Another reason to malt corn: As I understand it, the malting process frees up the starches in the corn so that high temp cooking is not required for corn that has been malted.
Indeed, as bellybuster says, high temps will destroy the enzymes created by malting. So, corn malt does not need to be gelatinized, but rather gets mashed at temps between 140F-150F, no higher.

[bellybuster]

And I learn something new as well, thanks

[Red Rim]

I just walked in from grinding up my malted corn. Kind of a pita! I think I let it go a day too long and now I smell like vomit. Oh well, part of the journey!
Hell, how do you beat getting seeds to sprout and then grinding them up and turning them into whiskey!

[Halfbaked]

Woodshed says his malted corn in a 30% malt corn-70% cracked corn ratio has no problems in conversion.

[touchmydrumset]

yall guys have helped me learn alot in this short time. thanks alot!
will continue researching and will let you guys know when i get my own mash working.

[woodshed]

Properly malted corn will convert more than itself given an unmalted grain that has been gelatinized properly.
Matled corn should go in 150f or lower. I go in at 152 which drops me to 148 after stir in. Perfect.

[RockinRockies]

What is the flavor profile? Last time I malted half my yellow dent, it tasted like buttered popcorn.

I just ordered a 50# sack of blue corn and we considering malting half

[shadylane]

From what I understand, malting grain is done to release the enzymes required to convert starches to sugar. Also, corn does have possess these enzymes.
So, why malt corn? Why not just add malted barely to gellentanized corn?

Folks around here are often into experimentation.
We do things like malting and are even known to use store bought enzymes.

[Saltbush Bill]

From my experience malted grains smell, taste and give a differently flavored end product to those that are unmalted.
Seems like a good enough reason to me.

[still_stirrin]

From my experience malted grains smell, taste and give a differently flavored end product to those that are unmalted.
Seems like a good enough reason to me.

+1.
ss

[RockinRockies]

I should be more specific. Half the grain bill was miles, cracked yellow dent, and the other half I malted. I used a mix of red star DADY and bakers yeast. I did booners casual process. The end product was cut very tight and tasted like jelly belly popcorn jelly beans, but more authentic. It was like drinking buttered popcorn. Very one dimensional but really delicious.

So, do you folks think that's a lucky flavor from a bad fermentation or maybe that's the flavor profile malted corn provides?

And, why would malted corn overtake the blue (ordered yesterday) and blood red corn, of which I just ordered a 50# sack

[still_stirrin]

… So, do you folks think that's a lucky flavor from a bad fermentation or maybe that's the flavor profile malted corn provides?

A little of both!

Corn imparts a “sweet flavor” and malted corn makes it taste a little “creamy”. But, a “buttered popcorn” flavor would be in part due to diacetyl formation during fermentation.

Yeast selection and fermentation (aggressiveness) affect diacetyl production. Lager yeasts can be more apt to make it than most ale yeasts. And the diacetyl (in a lager) can be reduced by raising ferment temperature after latent fermentation. The warmer temperature will trigger the yeast to reduce it.

If your product was just “the beer”, then the buttery quality would be a detractor. But, when combined with the “corny sweetness” in a distiller’s beer, it can produce the flavors you noticed in your spirits, especially when aged properly on some toasted American white oak. The key, however, is “balance”. Too much hot buttered popcorn can be overwhelming. But, it certainly will give your products a “signature”.

Red and blue corn do indeed have a different flavor profile than yellow dent. But the characteristics are mild and depending on the proportions in the grainbill, the contributions may be un-discernible. YMMV.
ss

[RockinRockies]

Hmm, thank you for your input. Sounds like I need to just malt a mash separate, and then add the red and blue together in one batch with enzymes

I'm almost derailing the thread now and I don't want to get off topic from malting. Thanks everyone

[shadylane]

From my experience malted grains smell, taste and give a differently flavored end product to those that are unmalted.
Seems like a good enough reason to me.

Another reason is malting makes proteins and nutrients that yeast likes.

[tommysb]

Hmm, thank you for your input. Sounds like I need to just malt a mash separate, and then add the red and blue together in one batch with enzymes

I'm almost derailing the thread now and I don't want to get off topic from malting. Thanks everyone

FWIW - I've had the buttered popcorn flavour present in all corn - both with RED and normal feed corn. That's fermented with bakers' yeast. I always assumed it was from the corn, rather than diacetyl produced in fermentation. I have done similar ferments with a mixture of corn, barley and wheat, and had less buttery tastes. Of course, nutrients in the barley and wheat might also affect yeast fermentation behaviour too.