First mash tastes like a sour wine

[Jeff_Boudreau]

80% cracked corn, 12% rye, 8% barley in a 5 gallon pail, 4 lbs sugar and 2 packets of bread yeast. It's been fermenting for three days now, still bubbling away. It's starting to taste like a strong bitter wine though. Is that ok?

[NZChris]

Where did you get that method? Sugar is way too low. What else don't you know?

[Jeff_Boudreau]

Everything

[Jeff_Boudreau]

So, just more sugar? How much?

[Tal]

Jeff, go to "Board index" at the top of this page, scroll down until you find"tried and true recipes" and start reading son....

[shadylane]

So, just more sugar? How much?

I'll assume, the grains in the recipe were not malted.
So we are only taking about added sugar.

Lower limit .8 pounds per gallon.
Much less than this and it takes too much effort to boil the alcohol out of the water.
That lower's the efficiency but doesn't hurt the quality of the distillate.

Upper limit 1.5 pounds per gallon.
Much higher than this and the distillate get's a sharp burning taste.
This requires tighter cut's and lowers the total efficiency and quality of the run.

Edited:
"It's starting to taste like a strong bitter wine though. Is that ok"
Sounds like the ferment is finished or almost finished.
When the cap falls and it begins to settle and clear, it's definitely done.

[Jeff_Boudreau]

Thanks much!

[AlfA01]

Where did you get that method? Sugar is way too low. What else don't you know?

That all depends on what they are trying to achieve. Just throwing sugar at a mash isn't a solution, its more like a coping method. We should be looking at conversion rates, yeast nutrients added/not added and whether all ferment-able sugars have been extracted from the grains added. There's really no sense in adding a ton of grains to a mash, then pounding it with cane sugar...you should just make a neutral sugar wash and then add essences and save your money on the grain bill.

If you're looking to make a top notch brew, then you have to focus on your grains and how well/effective you can extract their ferment-able sugars before supplementing with sugar. Certain grains release certain starches at certain temperatures. Based upon that, you can decide which starches you want to convert to ferment-able sugars, from which grains you have planned to use. For instance, if you want to make potato vodka, you will get about mid 20's conversion on the ferment-able sugars, which means, you will render about 20% of the total volume as drinkable alcohol, if done correctly. Some barley grains may not even add ferment-able sugars, but may add mouthfeel and smoothness when added to the mash.

Now, as far as the sour wine taste goes...Yes, you will have an initial product that tastes of off flavors and maybe even sour, depending on the yeast used, conversion rates of the starches, etc., etc., etc. The list is very long in this department, which is why us wine and beer makers pay particular attention to these details, as there is no distillation. Many times when tasting the product you currently are referring to, time will be the biggest factor. If you were to let the current product ripen and age, the tastes would change as the yeast tidies up the esters and begins to fall out of the mash. Right now, given the short fermentation time, you have a helk of a lot of stuff going on and suspended products in your booz, which make the flavors a little 'off'! Many of those will be remedied when you distill and filter.

Also, to address the simple stuff...did you use a food safe plastic/metal container to ferment? Did you use an airlock? At what temp did you 'pitch' (add) your yeast? What kind of water? Filtered, osmosis, well, spring or straight tap water? Oxidation can occur in addition to these factors mentioned which will ultimately affect the outcome of your product.

Cheers,
Alfa01