Jacket or Coil?

tracker0945 · Post by **tracker0945** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:20 pm

I am knocking up a very basic pot head for quick stripping runs and am a bit undecided about cooling the distillate.
Does the general opinion of those that use pot heads favour a bucket type cooling coil or a jacketed condenser?
I do have the materials to go either way without any extra purchases.

Post by **MisterSteve124** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:25 pm

It seems to me like most people favor the jacketed rather than the coils.

wineo · Post by **wineo** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:44 pm

I like the leibig because it takes up less space,and does a good job.

duds2u · Post by **duds2u** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:26 pm

I'm with Wineo. Besides that all that polished copper looks great.

defcon4 · Post by **defcon4** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:42 pm

Liebig is easier to setup and takes up less space but uses more water

Worm coil uses less water but is hard to configure during construction then use.

tracker0945 · Post by **tracker0945** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:47 pm

Well, thats fairly conclusive.
Thanks for the fast replies.
Liebig is the go.
Cheers

pintoshine · Post by **pintoshine** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:53 pm

I use a third option. I use a large air cooled coil with a fan blowing down through it. It took 50' of 5/8th inch copper to accomplish 2200w runs or 1 gallon an hour off 10% wash.
No water involved and it is very reliable. I use it to practically heat my shop in the winter.

: Stacey.jpg (7.68 KiB) Viewed 4000 times

This is Stacy. At a one gallon per hour rate this girl cranks out some good spirits and all I need is electricity for the fan and the heater element.

tracker0945 · Post by **tracker0945** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:58 pm

Nice set-up Pint but when I said I had all the goods to go either way, 50ft of 5/8 copper was not on my list

absinthe · Post by **absinthe** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:35 am

pinto can you post a larger pic id like to have a look at your setup

punkin · Post by **punkin** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:16 pm

Coil in a bucket works well for me.
I've got a big bucket (wheelie bin) and i don't have to empty or move it though.

BW Redneck · Post by **BW Redneck** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:33 pm

absinthe wrote:pinto can you post a larger pic id like to have a look at your setup

Agreed. That looks like I mighty nice setup there. I might want to copy it for my shop.

defcon4 · Post by **defcon4** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:05 pm

I have a much smaller still (1 gallon) from your experience, do you think I could use 25 feet of 3/8" pipe for an air cooled condenser? I've been trying to save water since my region is in a bad drought (6 months of water left!). Right now I'm just saving the output water from my condenser in 5 gal buckets and using the water to do a load of laundry, but I'm tired of spilling water everywhere when I carry it up out my basement.

Post by **Usge** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:19 pm

Now Pinto....I note the shotglass sitting next to the collector. A little nip-and-tuck? That's a nice looking rig. Hows that thumper working out?
Are you doing singles or doubles with it?

pintoshine · Post by **pintoshine** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:55 pm

The shot glass is my cuts glass. Behind where I took the picture is a table than contains other measuring instruments and a gallon of spring water. I always make my cuts base on the taste and smell of 20 to 30% ABV. The water opens up the flavors and turns milky if there are too many non water soluble oils.

I mostly do doubling runs in this one. It is a well behaved device.
The doubler makes the cuts easier. It keeps the alcohol content up there a bit higher for a longer period of time and then falls off rapidly. The tails get delayed out to 35 to 40%. I usually start cutting when either the smell is too strong, the taste will not compliment the rest of the spirit or the mixing with water louches. Needless to say mixing heads, hearts and tails for a pleasant taste takes years to acquire. I am certain that is what makes an experienced rectifier have the ability to add complexity without ruining the flavor.

Occasionally if I am experimenting with a new recipe, or the raw materials were in short supply or expensive, I will use this pot as both single and double. With the element nearly sitting on the bottom, I can run very small batches of 3 gallon or so.

The size of the condenser tubing is crazy to comprehend. It all has to do with the cross section area, which determines the volume capability, and the surface area which determines the cooling capacity.

I am going to revert to metric because the number are easier to understand for comparison.
Volume flow capacity is directly related to the cross section. If the cross section is too small it results in back pressure.

OD A
ID(in) B
r(mm) C
cross section area(sqmm) D
Volume factor E
circumference F
cooling factor G

Code: Select all

A	    B	    C	     D	   E	   F	   G
1/4" 	0.152	1.93	 11.71	1.0	 12.1	1.0
5/16"	0.215	2.73	 23.42	2.0	 17.2	1.4
3/8" 	0.277	3.52	 38.88	3.3	 22.1	1.8
1/2" 	0.402	5.11	 81.89	7.0	 32.1	2.6
5/8" 	0.495	6.29	124.16	10.6	39.5	3.3
3/4" 	0.62 	7.87	194.78	16.6	49.4	4.1

So using 1/4" inch as a reference the factor increase gives a unit rating to the capacity of each tubing size. I started with 1/4" back in 1978 because it was cheap. It didn't take me long to realize that the length and the diameter really did control the outbut capacity.

If you can't remove the heat from the distillate you can't catch it.

The balance for practical use is right about 1/2" which has a volume capacity of 7 and a heat capacity of 2.6

Below 1/2" you start congesting the vapor and the pressure backs up even though the cooling potential only drops a small amount.
Above 1/2" you really are not gaining that much extra cooling capacity for the price but you never have to worry about volume capacity.
The price is fairly related to the cooling capacity and the circumference.
McMaster prices for 50' lengths and the factor increase compared to 1/4"
1/4 72.55 1.0
5/6 104.68 1.39
3/8 107.66 1.48
1/2 164.89 2.27
5/8 263.65 3.63
3/4 290.18 4.00

3/8 might work OK with your setup. It has 31% less cooling capacity, for the same length, as 1/2" and 53% less volume capacity than 1/2" regardless of the length.

25 feet of 3/8" tubing can only cool 1/3 the volume as 50' 1/2"

My 5/8" at 50' can cool 4 L/H. 3/8 could only do 270 ml/H in the same geometry and fan. Increased air flow would be better.

goose eye · Post by **goose eye** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:06 pm

worm gonna lope ifin you aint took your time. condencer aint.
you makein it put flat peace of copper just in the in side an
one a mite off the botom an just inside the dick spout.

dont get me wrong ifin your biscuts aint right a condencer will

so im tole

Post by **Usge** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:55 pm

goose,
by "lope" what do you mean? and I assume by takin' your time, you mean running it slow (as compared to a condensored still)?

And by biscuits being right ...do you mean if you have leaks somewhere, that your condensored still could "lope" too?

If I only new what a lope was

Where I'm originally from, lope was an off kilter walk or motion..or an uneven cycle. Like a lopsided truck tare with a knot in it...rollin down a hill. Or an egg rolling down a hill...or a fat boy in an innertube...where there's more accelleration on one side of the motion than another.

By lope...you are speaking about the vapor flow being uneven?

Just wondering cause I have had a huffing/puffing issue with my 5L copper alembic....having uneven vapor flow. It kind of goes ..drip....drip.....drip, drip,drip...streeeammmmm......drip.......drip...drip,drip,drip..etc.

General consenses was that my condensor bucket was simply too small (it's about 1/3 the volume of the pot). But, when I let it run hot...the huffing goes away (but the drip is still uneven). I let the water sit more last time..and the bucket got hot...the huffing of air stopped and the distillate dripped out straight down instead of being blowed back up on the spout by the huffing air. When I ran it cool...(the water in the condensor bucket)...it huffs like Santa going up 4 flights of stairs.

Pinto...thanks for all that info. Truth be told...the tails..to me..just get mostly watery. I never really notice any horrible smells or tastes from them. I put a few drops of water in with them when I taste and I never noticed any of it clouding or louging (and that's to 98c). Obviously, I'm missing something somewhere. More practice needed.

Dunderhead · Post by **Dunderhead** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:43 pm

I takit frum what yu sad you do not have whater +drain?
How about air cooled Starte SAy 5/8 splt to 2 or 3 3/8
moure surfis ? Also could look into fined copper AS in
hot water heating "base bord + fan

goose eye · Post by **goose eye** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:07 am

usge lopein is bout like your tracter fixin to run out of fuel. it aint steady.
suckin air can cause it ifin you aint put your bicuts on right one
has cooked loose your doublein keg has shook one loose or doublein keg
drain stub is leakin.
these boys dont no nothin bout them drip styles. the person make your condencer ever make likker before. more to a condencer than some folks
think. herd tell of some with a peace of 2 inch copper in thread patern on inside a worm inside a condencer. pipes runin thru from top to botom an on some them pipes made rounded with tees an rounded all way round on inside of condencer.
its all bout whatever works best for you aint what all other folks do.

so im tole

Post by **Usge** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:03 pm

Thanks goose. I understand about the air leak/lopein.

I always thought you let likker drip slow, and keep it cold if you want it to taste good. Running fast on strip runs, doublin'twistin, etc., was the first I ever heard of that here.

goose eye · Post by **goose eye** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:45 am

deependin on your outfit how fast you can run it.
gal every 15 minutes can be cold some subs can go 5 an more. these boys dont be changein the speed dont mater ifin they single footin or getin low wines an doublein
always heard - cook it like a hog.

so im tole