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I am currently doing sweet feed whiskey, which I like very much, but decided to play with the flavoring of it.
We currently use wood and fruit and nuts ect to help flavour our drinks. I propose using the grains we use to make the whiskey to enrich and enhance the flavour.

I have done this with very very good success.

I do this in one gallon glass jugs.

Keep it at barrel strength as you are ageing them with this process. ( I use between 55 and 65 %)
In one jug I put a few handfuls of cracked corn. add alcohol. Cap and let sit. This will pull the corn flavour and it is amazing!

In less than 4 hours you have a massive flavour boost and a slight colour change. Keep it on the grains as long as you like, tasting periodicity until it is where you are happy.

The process from here on out will be the same for every different batch.

I also add fresh sweet feed back in with a table spoon of fancy molasses. sometimes two.

I've been playing with this for a bit now and figured I would share. I keep mine at 55 % as that is where I find my flavour profile to my liking. YMMV

I'm sure others have done this in the past, just figured since I couldn't find anything about ageing on grains that it should be posted so that new people can explore it as well. if you have done this and have something you really like I am all ears. This has been a wild ride.

Yak

Hmmmm, never thought of this... wonder what grains like crystal malts would be like??

bellybuster wrote:Hmmmm, never thought of this... wonder what grains like crystal malts would be like??

It hit me a few weeks ago and it was a eurika moment. ive been loving how you can alter the finished taste very simply.

in my sweetfeed jug it looks like its been oaked for years but no oak as touched it yet, but the flavour profile is very complex and diverse. much like a batch thats been aged for a decent amount of time.

And are you stalking me bellybuster , first reply on both my posts within minutes of the post being up.

yak

bellybuster wrote:Hmmmm, never thought of this... wonder what grains like crystal malts would be like??

I haven't used crystal yet but my last batch did include 20% chocolate malt in the grain bill

Its too early to tell yet what flavor it will give, but it has a very noticeable coffee and chocolate aroma

adding a few coffee beans sound like it may enhance the flavour profile as well.


oh and something i forgot to mention. I smoke my corn first so it pulls out an interesting flavour.

Ive done the coffee beans in neutral and really like it

Wow now that's an obvious idea!

Terryv wrote: I haven't used crystal yet but my last batch did include 20% chocolate malt in the grain bill

Its too early to tell yet what flavor it will give, but it has a very noticeable coffee and chocolate aroma

I think you'll find that your distillate will be very bitter with that much chocolate malt.

I did some experimenting with a few specialty malts in a UJSSM and found using more than 1/2lb in a 5gal batch made it incredibly strong.

1/2lb of chocolate malt gave a nice hint of chocolate and toffee. 1lb tasted like a mouth full of coffee grounds. I had the same experience with Crystal 80L.

If you mashed it in an AG batch, it may be different but I'm pretty confident the results will be the same.

BayouShine wrote:

Terryv wrote: I haven't used crystal yet but my last batch did include 20% chocolate malt in the grain bill

Its too early to tell yet what flavor it will give, but it has a very noticeable coffee and chocolate aroma

I think you'll find that your distillate will be very bitter with that much chocolate malt.

I did some experimenting with a few specialty malts in a UJSSM and found using more than 1/2lb in a 5gal batch made it incredibly strong.

1/2lb of chocolate malt gave a nice hint of chocolate and toffee. 1lb tasted like a mouth full of coffee grounds. I had the same experience with Crystal 80L.

If you mashed it in an AG batch, it may be different but I'm pretty confident the results will be the same.

Its an experiment and even if it doesn't turn out great, I had a great time making it.

I think some folks are confusing the suggested infusing with mashing the grains in the first place.

bellybuster wrote:I think some folks are confusing the suggested infusing with mashing the grains in the first place.

Ya me too lol. Anyone else tried this yet? I will actually be soaking my entire next set of stripping runs on cracked corn for a few days before I do the spirit run, will be interesting to see how much this will affect it.

Yak

I think I would rehydrate cracked corn first, just thinkin.......

bellybuster wrote:I think I would rehydrate cracked corn first, just thinkin.......

Go on, don't leave me in suspense, what makes you lean towards rehydration first?


I haven't rehydrate thus far as I didn't want to dilute Prematurly. I know I'll lose a bit but it's negligible considering it's just for me. And so far I've done two batches on the same grain bed. Both sw and all corn.

Yak

yakattack wrote:

bellybuster wrote:I think I would rehydrate cracked corn first, just thinkin.......

Go on, don't leave me in suspense, what makes you lean towards rehydration first?

Because otherwise that grain is going to soak up and keep a lot of the alcohol you worked so hard to make... It will also help temper how the flavor profile is extracted...

Another method is to soak or simmer your grains in water and then use that water to dilute your undiluted spirits to drinking proof... Some grains work better than others with this method depending on gelatinization...

Yak, etall,

I tried this tactic yesterday on a couple of whiskeys (same product, different aging stages) and was surprised at the outcome. I used some Special B (a dark Belgian crystal malt) in the process.

Jar 1, 120 proof and aged on toasted pecan wood already with a nice amber/garnet color and that great butternut flavor, I added 1/2 cup of uncracked grain to 1 liter. It picked up a dark garnet/crimson color very quickly (within 20-30 minutes). I sampled it after an hour and it had already picked up a slight crystal malt sweetness, but the toffee and caramalized sugar notes were already predominant. After only 3 hours, it had a noticeable astringency (dry tongue) from the grain husks. Be careful with the duration of soak as that does leach the tannins out of the husks.

Jar 2, 120 proof and aged on a blend of apple, cherry, pecan and oak woods had a likewise complex woody flavor with a similar amber/garnet color. I added 1 cup of the uncracked grain to a liter. Again, after only 30 minutes it had picked up a dark crimson color just like jar 1. The flavor at 30 minutes was like a piece of caramelized toffee candy. At 2 hours, the jar had a noticeable astringency too. So I filtered the liquor through a couple of coffee filters. It seems like 1 cup per liter is too heavy of a dose of the Special B, at least.

Jar 3 was an aged, white whiskey also at 120 proof (750 ml), to which I added 1 cup of the grain. Within 15 minutes the colors were already showing. And by 30 minutes it looked like the whiskey that had been on wood for 6 weeks. The grain flavor was also apparent, with the dark crystal sweetness predominating. The white whiskey flavor was so subdued that it wasn't even perceivable any more. At 1 hour, the colors were very dark crimson, almost a red/black like blood. At 2 hours, the grain huskiness dominated the flavor profile and I had to get it off the grain. I double filtered it and the resulting liquor is very dark, much darker than any wood-aged whiskey I've make. The toffee notes have a character similar to a charred wood taste with the astringent dryness of a young oak-aged whiskey. I hope that time will prove its elegance with this one as it is a little rough yet.

This was an interesting experiment (sorry I didn't take pictures for y'all). I had the whiskeys to try and I happened to have the dark crystal malt. Thanks for the tip and I'll update with additional perceptions in the future. Will I do it again? Maybe, but I'll be a little lighter with the amount of grain and the duration of soak. YMMV.
ss

great experiment SS

If I had the supplies I'd do the same but in the opposite direction. I'd start at 1/4 cup but for twice the time and see what happens, then go to 1/8 cup etc etc.

I'm just wondering if the same theory of less wood more time when aging would be the same for this.

I gotta get my stash built back up.

rad14701 wrote: Another method is to soak or simmer your grains in water and then use that water to dilute your undiluted spirits to drinking proof... Some grains work better than others with this method depending on gelatinization...

I like this idea, with some of my apple brandy to add more flavor I did part of the cuts by deluting a no sugar added apple juice with the water.

Here's a snap this morning of jar 2:
ss

In a similar vein, Ive soaked peated malt in the low wines of sugarhead for a week before running the spirit run. Its very nice, with a beautiful smoke coming through the spirit run.

Jimbo wrote:In a similar vein, Ive soaked peated malt in the low wines of sugarhead for a week before running the spirit run. Its very nice, with a beautiful smoke coming through the spirit run.

Great idea Jimbo. I'm going to try that one too.

When I make my single malt with peated malt, by the time I get through the spirit run, I've lost most of that (nice) smokey quality. Adding to low wines and running through the spirit sounds like it'll save some of it.

Typically, how much malt do you use for the soak?
ss

I put a lb in maybe 3 or 4 gallons. Since all I did was soak off the smoke essentially, I dried it out on a towel and used that lb of malt in another batch of hooch later.

Hey Jimbo, can you give anymore thoughts on your smokyhead results? How much it the smoke comes through? The grain?

I am considering doing this with my gumballhead/ UJSSM feints. I would probably dilute them down to 30% before adding the grains to prevent to the astringency SS is talking about.

Your dam wheated bourbon ruined my taste buds. Now I need something more from my sugar heads...

Ferment_It wrote:Hey Jimbo, can you give anymore thoughts on your smokyhead results? How much it the smoke comes through? The grain?

I am considering doing this with my gumballhead/ UJSSM feints. I would probably dilute them down to 30% before adding the grains to prevent to the astringency SS is talking about.

Your dam wheated bourbon ruined my taste buds. Now I need something more from my sugar heads...

haha funny. Keep raising the bar and it does kinda ruin ya for lesser stuff eh. I used to drink Jack, my favorite drink for years. Now I take a sip and say blah.

The smokeyhead is not hugely smokey, but you can definitely taste the smoke. Its subtle but there. Ok just took a sip off some Sept 2013 made smokeyhead now to get fresh impression. It has that thin sugarhead character (not unlike charcoal filtered Jack) compared to the AG's, but a nice balance between the oak and smoke. I drink this neat and enjoy it fine. Ill bring some to Sheds in June you gonna be there?

Ferment_It wrote:....I am considering doing this with my gumballhead/ UJSSM feints. I would probably dilute them down to 30% before adding the grains to prevent to the astringency SS is talking about....

Now remember Ferment_it, Jimbo is doing a spirit run after the grain soak. I didn't. So the additional distillation would have the tendancy to leave the tannins behind in the still. Steeping the finished product will hang onto them.
ss

Thanks! I'll give it a try and let yall know how it works. Not a huge peat fan but would like to get somethin decent to my grandpa who is. Unfortunately, I fear time is runnin short for recipe development and proper aging.

Wish I could make it to sheds S3 meeting. Be awesome to meet yall and hear windys cigar box guitar get passed around. Sister is getting married that weekend. I'm from and will likely return to the south side of "Iceland". I'll be in touch.

Ss, thanks for the update. Each grain I've found imparts different character and times and amounts do vary. I've found corn to be my favorite so far. I really like the idea of soaking low wines. And will be doing that with my next run.

my controller from still dragon came in last night. Just waiting for my cooling barrel to thaw and I'll be running again.

SS, I'm worried even slight carryover would be detrimental to my end product. Maybe I read too much into your previous post and an over thinking this, but it won't be any more work to dilute it first.

yakattack wrote: I've found corn to be my favorite so far. [align=][/align].

did you rehydrate the corn or put it in dry?

Yak, I apologize for the thread hijack. I happened to be at a point in a couple of aged whiskeys where I could test your hypothesis. And I think it tested well. The notion of grain additions to the aging whiskey is intriguing and very much plausible. And as you pointed out...the effects are very quick to realize.

With that, my experiments have shown me some cautions. So Ferment_it, I don't mean to scare you. Just be careful. As others have added, be careful as you do it. I would suggest only trying it on a portion of your product so you can maintain a control to compare the process and product to.

So thanks to all the interest and contributors to this thread. It really has been a learning experience (a good one too) for me. As a word to all the readers who read this, "try it", keep notes, perception records, and report back. We'll all appreciate the knowledge.

And thanks, Yak, for opening the thread. It has been truly "eye opening"...palette enhancing???
ss

SS, no need to apologize. It's an open discussion, not a guide book. it has potential, but needs work to refine. Everyone who contributes is a part of the journey.
I'm glad someone else was able to recreate my results.

Ferment- like ss said, small samples to test is a good way to start.

Yak