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I am preparing to do another Single Malt; I prefer an Irish style whiskey and never liked a heavy smokey Scotch style. Having said that I have heard good things about using cherrywood smoked malt in mashing single malts. What would you guys recommend as a ratio of plain 2 row malt to cherrywood smoked malt to add just a hint of smoke/added favor to the favor profile?

Thanks for any suggestions.

BG

I would love to give you an answer as I am experimenting along similar lines. Unfortunately I do not know the answer. You might find this thread interesting however, http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... t=maillard. Keep us posted on answers, etc.

Can't speak directly to the cherrywood but do know a little smoked goes a long ways.

As an example when I did the S3 barrel I used 5.5% smoked cottonwood malt and it came across very strong.
Too strong in fact. Some of that is due to the strong taste of cottonwood.
With time in the barrel somewhere around 7 1/2 months now it has mellowed considerably and is becoming much nicer.

If I can keep my hands and lips off of it we will see what it is like at S3:16.

You'll have more control over the taste/aroma if you smoke your own grain. I've got a chart and directions in the "Man Cave" I'll dig it out and post it when I find it, If you're interested. Kiwi Bruce

"I've got a chart and directions in the "Man Cave" I'll dig it out and post it when I find it, If you're interested. Kiwi Bruce"

One more question for you Single Malt experts. I have about 5 lbs. of malted rye left that IO really don't have a use for now; how would it be work if I added the rye to malted barley (and maybe cherrywood smoked) mast?

BG

boda getta wrote: Having said that I have heard good things about using cherrywood smoked malt in mashing single malts. BG

About the smoke, peat smoke is the most mild of all the smokes on malt. (my opinion) The wood smokes are all more astringent and penetrating in there flavor. If you don't like peated malt, go easy with the cherry.

boda getta wrote:I am preparing to do another Single Malt; I prefer an Irish style whiskey and never liked a heavy smokey Scotch style. BG

The whiskey spirits belong to the family of “ flavored”spirits. This family of alcohols get a lot get there flavors from the substances that make up there ferment. Malt for whiskey, molasses for rum, corn for bourbon, grape for brandy. These flavor compounds are collectively called congeners, but they bring with them some elements that take a long time to mellow/mature. This is why there is a very distinct difference between a single malt and an Irish whiskey, bourbon, Canadian and rye. If you want the congeners in your beverage you would distill it with a pot still and be prepared for a longer maturation. If didn’t want the congeners you'd distill in a column still and rely on the wood to provide your flavor, shortening the maturation time. Modern Canadian, Rye and bourbon are distilled this way, in column stills. Single malt and Irish whiskeys are pot still distilled. However most Irish whiskey is triple distilled to remove more congeners than even that in the lowland single malts, which have the mildest of flavor of all the single malts. In addition most Irish whiskey is blended with neutral spirit to cut the grain flavor even more. So what that leaves us with is :- single malt – honey and smoky, mellow. Irish - sweetish, oaky and sharper than single malts. Canadian – vanilla. Bourbons – biscuit and oaky. Rye – dry and spicy. (this is strictly Kiwi Bruce's abbreviated flavor evaluations – any other HD member's with differing evaluations please chime in here) So blending a rye malt into your barley malt mash will do two things to your whiskey you have to be prepared for, (again, my opinion) the rye will give you a “dry” back taste in your mouth, not unpleasant, but not what I expected in a single malt. So go for it, use your rye, I'd say 1/2lb to start, but expect the surprise. you may really like it. Kiwi Bruce

KB
Thank you for your post, the Single Malt I did last year (and again this summer) gave me everything I was hoping for. It was: 100% malted barley, stripped then spirit run through a pot still, very conservative cuts. It put it in at 125 proof in a new Gibbs Bros keg until I got the color I wanted, then transferred to a older Gibbs keg to mellow, it then spent close to a year in glass. I have compared it to several store brought Irish whiskeys, both double and triple distilled and IMHO, it is smoother, with no "heads bite" that some of them had. I like rye whiskey as well, the favor I associate with a good rye is spicy; that may the same as what you call dryness. I also did a 100% malted rye last year and again this summer as well, it was done identical to the malted barley, except for the different malt. Last years malted rye was also very smooth, not quite as smooth as the malted barley but very close. I was expecting more spice like a un-malted rye but the spice was much more muted and mostly came in on the very back end. I switched kegs ( from newer keg to older kegs) last night on this years single malt and malted rye and had a small test drink of both, proofed down from keg proof to 84 proof and was very pleased with both considering how young both are. I would not be surprised if both turned out a little better than last years runs. I understand your point in going easy with the rye with the malted barley, but IMHO, 1/2 # rye to 50# malted barley would likely net no difference in favor profile. Again I was surprised how mild malted rye whiskey is as compared to a raw grain rye. This will be my last run of the year and I really don't want the 5# of malted rye laying around all winter; I may be making a mistake, but I'm leaning toward a 90% malted barley/10% malted rye mast. It may ned more age, but wouldn't be surprised if not.
Wish me luck.

BG

Interesting you should mention the Cherry smoked barley, I have just finished a 25 gallon mash that had 12% cherry smoked barley and 8% malted rye along with corn,oats and malted wheat and golden promise malted barley. The smokiness came through but was very subtle . Mostly in the finish as was the rye. To me the cherry smoked barley was not as intense as the peated barley. The peated barley I used had a bit of an iodine flavor to it while the cherry smoked has not shown any of that particular flavor.

Corene1:
Thanks for your post, sounds like a very interesting mast. I had planned on during a "AG" four Grain Whiskey from sweet feed and use the 5# rye malt I saved back from the single malt rye but was unable to figure a way to grind the sf. None of the brew shops would touch it because of the sticky molasses and I ruined my electric food grinder trying. My manual food grinder jammed and would not work either. I finally gave up and will instead, next spring, just buy corn, oats, barley and rye (or wheat) and make my own true 4 grain mash. I am planning on using some cherrywood smoked in my single malt, but haven decided how much. Your mash had some robust grains that would better stand up to the 12% cherrysmoked malt; I suspect a malted barley (and maybe a little malted rye) would be overwhelmed with that much and result in more smoke than I would like. I believe I will go ahead with the 5# rye malt and are pretty sure it could be a tasty drop. Wish Jimbo would weight in; I've read several of his post touting cherrywood malt in a single malt. Maybe I will PM him.

BG

Corene, what was the brand of peated malt you used? or did you smoke it yourself?

kiwi Bruce wrote:Corene, what was the brand of peated malt you used? or did you smoke it yourself?

I used Simpson peated barley malt from Morebeer. (http://www.morebeer.com/products/simpso ... -malt.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow) I like the flavor that it gives off but it does seem to have a bit of iodine flavor. I didn't get that with the cherry smoked barley.

I started another recipe today just to try something different with the cherry smoked barley. So far it tastes really good, I will get it fermented out and let you know the final results.
20% oats
20% white wheat
20% cherry smoked barley
20% Irish lager barley
12% rye
4% malted chocolate wheat
4% malted chocolate barley
Used a total of 25 pounds to 12 gallons of water I cooked the oats and wheat then sparged them . I lost 1 gallon of water to the grain then heated that to strike temperature and added it to the malted grains it is resting right now at 148. I will cool it this evening and then pitch the yeast . I think it will come out pretty nice but I will let you know how that percentage of cherry smoked barley affects the flavor, may have to cut it back a bit. I think it will make an excellent cold weather sipping whiskey

Thanks Corene, I have got to try this. The only way I have been able to come close to the taste of Islay - Lagavulin/Laphroaig is to use Black Cardamom in the spirit run.

Not sure about in scotch but I can tell you the cherry smoked bass I did was good if done mild.. one batch I did too much and was not pleasing at all...

I think sugar maple would be nicer to me..... Milder nicer flavor and sweeter.

Bruce

kiwi Bruce wrote:I have got to try this. The only way I have been able to come close to the taste of Islay - Lagavulin/Laphroaig is to use Black Cardamom in the spirit run.

I have had those and some Ardbeg also. Those are really smokey pretty sure they are 100% peated barley but not totally sure. The Lagavulin seems to have the most Iodine flavor to me. The most I have used in a whiskey is about 15% and it comes out a nice light smoke in the finish. Good cold weather whiskies , especially around a campfire.

And I can get my hands on stacks of maple! and I agree both of these are great evening/ entertaining whiskys.

I found something that might interest you, if you run the spirit run out past the tails you'll start to collect a distilled water that is sweetened by saccharin from the malt. It's called "sweet-water" and some of the speysides, like Cardhu, and said to use this to get the Honey flavor that has made them famous.