Yeast in the Boiler

[Johnnywhiskey]

I'm running a batch of corn whiskey now. And every time I'm charging the boiler I think--how much yeast should I let into the boiler? Typically the answer is "a little", more than I would let into my beer, but not very much. However I have not experimented at all with it as a variable. So what is the common wisdom on yeast in the boiler?

I have read conflicting reports. Some say yeast gives an off taste. Some say it adds an important flavor element. I suspose it depends on what you are making--neutral/vodka, rum or whiskey. Any advice? What flavor does it add, if any?

BTW I think the forum is missing a "Distillation Technique" (or something similar) section to discuss nuances on how to run a distillation.

[pfshine]

None at the most

[Johnnywhiskey]

None at the most

There are quite a few folks that ferment on the grain, or even distill on the grain. Seems like they have the opposite approach. I'm not saying which is better, but how does that effect the results?

Or did you mean the yeast has no effect at most?

[NZChris]

It's a personal preference thing, so if you really want to know what the best way for you is, split a ferment and try both.

I don't clear anything.

[jedneck]

I ferment and distill on the grain. I dump the whole mess in to the boiler. A good chunk of the yeast cake does stay in fermenter. Don't notice any off taste but a 25 year Copenhagen habit is not good for the palate.

[Danespirit]

None at the most

Couldn't say it better..

[pfshine]

I personally don't like the taste the boiled yeast give. Also I run internal elements not a bain married or double boiler so scorching is a factor. I ran a batch once that I didn't let settle and got that yeast carry over. I reran it three times to no avail, I ended up dumping it on an ant hill.

[Danespirit]

I was lazy and used the flourpaste seal from yesterdays strippingrun.
A piece of it fell down on the element towards the end...
I can imagine how burned yeast must smell in the distillate..
So i always rack my wash/mash and let it settle for a day.
Then i pour it slowly into the boiler, letting the yeast rests settle on the bottom of the fermenter.

[moosemilk]

I've always run dirty, squeeze o my grains and run right away. Never notice any yeast flavor. Not running on electric though.

[pulsetech]

I run electric and have not noticed any scorching even when ive squeezed the trub and run straight away. There is a flavor difference if i run it right away or let it settle out.
its a personal choice imo. i have not had any scorching at all. when i siphon my wash into the boiler it goes through a stainless steel mesh strainer (the kitchen type) and that seems
to be enough to get the big chunks out even on a UJSM

[greggn]

> So i always rack my wash/mash and let it settle for a day.


Only one day ... is that outside in cold temperatures ?

It usually takes a week for my wheat sugarheads to clear but that's indoors at typically 68 - 72F.

[Danespirit]

If you rack your mash/wash...it doesn't have to be set outside.
Just rack it of into another fermenter and let it settle for at least a day or two.
it's very important the container you rack it into is clean, otherwise you risk a infection by cross contamination...your ferment might get spoiled.
Siphon it off or if you (like me) have a relative small fermenter, just pour it gently into your still.
Done that way, you will never have to worry about burned yeast.

[Dan P.]

I bung the lot in. I use direct fire. I wonder if those who complain of a taste from the yeast can verify that it's actually the yeast they're tasting and not just the taste of the other particulates in the wash? I'd be surprised if they could. The whole "yeast/burnt yeast" taste thing seems like fussy people justifying their fussiness, or perhaps just that their stills burn the wash very easily?

[pfshine]

It's easy to verify. It tastes like you jammed a loaf of bread into a mason jar. Call me fussy but I don't like Sara Lee whiskey.

[Dan P.]

It's easy to verify. It tastes like you jammed a loaf of bread into a mason jar. Call me fussy but I don't like Sara Lee whiskey.

That's not verifying that it's not something else causing that taste. My point being that there is a lot of other stuff floating around in there besides yeast, even fermenting off the grain.
I guess if it gets you where you want to go, do it how you want.

[bearriver]

My ULWD element doesnt scorch if I strain the whole mess through a paint strainer bag and into the boiler. I'm not advocating doing it that way, but it shouldn't scorch from my experience.

[Hound Dog]

I rack into buckets and let my ferments clear for a week before going in the boiler. That's me though. I think NzChris hit right on target for this question. ..

It's a personal preference thing, so if you really want to know what the best way for you is, split a ferment and try both.

I couldn't agree more. Just do what suits your taste.

[shadylane]

As they say there's many ways to skin a cat and I've tried it about every way I can think of.
Personally letting the wash/mash settle tastes best, especially when the shine is going to be drank young and white.
Fermenting on the grain and stripping on the grain with steam injection is the dirtiest, but it's also the easiest.
When doing it that way I normally potstill it three times or strip and reflux.

[Johnnywhiskey]

Thanks for the input. It sounds like most yeast practices are based on the practicalities of heating with the yeast in the boiler. I use a SS keg and a propane burning, and I have never had a problem with burning anything in the keg--even recently wrung corn mash full of yeast and dreaded rye sludge/mucus. I have recently gone to fermenting off the grain, so among other things I have more control over how much yeast goes into the boiler. I've never racked beer for distilling into a secondary, the yeast always seems to have settled well.

A couple people said it is a person preference as to the flavor the yeast gives the final product. Is the general consensus that yeast in the boiler imparts a bready/yeasty flavor (as you might expect from a yeasty beer)? If so, its not what I am shooting for, especially not in vodka/neutrals. Even if multiple distillations can remove the taste, I would rather not introduce it in the first place. BTW I run a CM reflux still and for rum or whiskey I dial down the reflux, or completely turn it off. But I do pretty much everything in a single distillation.

Does anyone know what is done in the industry regarding distilling with or without yeast?

Thx, JW

[Dan P.]

Thanks for the input. It sounds like most yeast practices are based on the practicalities of heating with the yeast in the boiler. I use a SS keg and a propane burning, and I have never had a problem with burning anything in the keg--even recently wrung corn mash full of yeast and dreaded rye sludge/mucus. I have recently gone to fermenting off the grain, so among other things I have more control over how much yeast goes into the boiler. I've never racked beer for distilling into a secondary, the yeast always seems to have settled well.

A couple people said it is a person preference as to the flavor the yeast gives the final product. Is the general consensus that yeast in the boiler imparts a bready/yeasty flavor (as you might expect from a yeasty beer)? If so, its not what I am shooting for, especially not in vodka/neutrals. Even if multiple distillations can remove the taste, I would rather not introduce it in the first place. BTW I run a CM reflux still and for rum or whiskey I dial down the reflux, or completely turn it off. But I do pretty much everything in a single distillation.

Does anyone know what is done in the industry regarding distilling with or without yeast?

Thx, JW

I believe american whiskey is distilled on the grain, but is mostly column-stilled. Scotch single molt is pot stilled off the grain, but I would be very surprised if they took measures to remove the yeast for practical reasons.

Concerning the "yeast taste" I think you would have really hyper-sensitive tastebuds to discern whether someone took measures to remove the yeast from there strip charge. I suspect it's a fantasy that the fussies have concocted. I mean, I drink crystal clear beer that still tastes of yeast. That's how things get fermented; Yeast! Of course they are going to taste of yeast, in as much as they taste of something fermented. Much of the flavour of a ferment comes from the yeast, and different yeasts will have different flavours and different levels or intensities of flavour. But, as has been said, you really just have to try the different ways yourself and make up your own mind.

[NZChris]

Mine is internal electric. I've never had yeast burn onto the elements.

The closest I come to clearing is draining a fermenter through a spigot using the grain bed as the filter, returning about a 1/4 bucket back into the fermenter when it's running clear. Rums go straight into the still, being careful not to tip too much yeast in. Wine fermented on the pulp goes straight from the press into the still, the waiting charges settle out a bit in their buckets and get decanted into the still on the same day, (I don't deliberately put yeast in).

I've never noticed any bready, yeasty, type flavors in anything I've made, and no one has ever commented that they have.

[bearriver]

Mine is internal electric. I've never had yeast burn onto the elements.

I literally just drained my boiler of what looked like thick sludge. It didn't want to flow through a 1/2" drain valve because it was so thick at the bottom... Anyways the charge was a very thick fruit wash and it still didn't scorch onto the element. I was impressed.

[Honest_Liberty]

this topic is so interesting. I'm trying to build a non Bain-Marie setup with an agitator (direct NG burner with diffuser) so I can do everything in one vessel to massively streamline my process. Here is what my limited experience, yet highly sensitive palate tells me:

1. I've throw almost all the trub into no less than half my strips. By the end of my cuts on the spirit run... I don't pick up on the yeast. on the strips...absolutely. the low wines smell and taste faintly of bready-ness.

In fact, I'm on my first ever time actually following the Booner's casual all corn recipe and I threw EVERYTHING in the pot still and ran it hard, and now I'm running it again, nice and slow. I'm not picking up on any flavors, even right off the still, that are offensive now that I'm in the meat of the hearts, as we speak. Just straight up yummy corn, earthy sweetness.

2. I have a very sensitive sense of smell. I can say I've not figured out how not to be greedy on tails for white dog, except that now I know that's my problem. I like the flavors but instead of only tossing in a 1/8th jar or whatever, I was tossing in the whole jar. No more. I'm going super conservative on tails. And that is where I find my distaste for me end product lies. NOT the yeast, but the lack of reverence that a conservative cut makes for white sipping.

I'm just not buying the whole yeast profile as significant contributor to end result in a double + distilled drop. I'm not discounting that the experts here know better, so please don't take my opinion as disrespect. I'm just not sold on its overall terribleness. What I lack in experience I make up with an extremely sensitive sense of smell. I have a far more discriminatory palate than anyone I have met thus far.