Areation techniques.??

[ranger_ric]

Saw an interesting aeration technique where they talk of using an air compressor to aerate their wash before pitching the yeast. I gotta couple of questions:
1. Has anyone done this
2. What do you use to bubble the air into your wash.. I have a pretty good size compressor with a 20 gallon tank on it and it makes up to 100psi .... 100psi into my wash would spray it all over the mancave. (I have an aquarium pump with some airstones would it do a better)
3. I know that about once a month I open the valve on the bottom of the tank and spray out a lot of condensate, any concern about this condensate getting into the wash?

Can anyone give some more details on this?? I currently use a drill with a paint stirrer on it...

Thanks Folks

Carry On
RR

[Danespirit]

I wouldn't use that compressor for it.
Contaminated water and possible also oilmist will get into your wash.
Now i assume you run a quite big ferment, so my way with a aquarium airpump won't get you there...?

[ga flatwoods]

Good point Dane. I just stir the crap out of mine and have never had a problem. Most use the aquarium pump if anything.
Ga Flatwoods

[MitchyBourbon]

With the occasional ag, sometimes I go out of my way not to introduce any oxygen at all. I just make a good starter, big enough to complete fermentation without much reproduction. It produces a smooth whisky without much bite.

[ranger_ric]

Mitchy,

How "big" is a big starter, like for a 5 gallon wash??

[jedneck]

I wail the shit outta mine with a drill and mortar mixer. Get it spinnin into a good vortex and good to go.

[MitchyBourbon]

I start with a half liter and double it to 1 liter and then 2 liters. After 3 days it's done. I let it settle in the fridge for a day. When my mash is ready, i decant the liquid off and just pitch the thick yeast cake that's left.

[ranger_ric]

Mitchy,
A couple of questions so I understand YOUR process..
1. 1/2 LIter (of liquid) to how much yeast??? Bakers or DADY?
2. Is the liquid just water or water and wash? water and sugar?
3. When you double it are you just adding water or wash or what??
4. How often are you adding to it??

I have tried something "similar" to this with my Ujssm... As I drain my wash to the boiler from the clearing bucket, I take the yeast at the bottom of the clearing bucket and add it to some fresh water for about 30-45 minutes, then I add about 2 teaspoons of sugar and stir well with a spoon. I let that ride for about an hour and add another spoon ful of sugar until my stillin run is complete and I get to start mixin the next run with some backset. I have about a 80% success rate with this process. Sometimes I have to pitch a new yeast bomb

[NZChris]

There is no way I'd put the filthy air from my compressor into a wash, I use an aquarium pump.

You can prolly skip the '30-45 minutes' RR. They're hydrated and they're hungry already. Give them a feed.

[rager]

I wail the shit outta mine with a drill and mortar mixer. Get it spinnin into a good vortex and good to go.

this!

after getting a half gallon starter going for a good couple hours

[BaxtersDad]

Best way...pure oxygen, I have a little regulator that feeds a sintered stone from a hardware store oxygen cylinder, very effective but expensive per use. The cylinder last about 3 minutes, if you oxygenate a 5 gallon wort for 30 seconds, you can do six batches per cylinder. Absolutely does the job though.

Next best way, an aquarium air pump, a HEPA filter and a sintered stone. You need to run it about 5 minutes in the wort. Dirt cheap, very effective. The HEPA filter inline is critical, you do not want to be pumping bacteria from the air into you wort!

Stirring / shaking / pouring back and forth will NOT put a sufficient quantity of oxygen into your wort. Lots of folks don't oxygenate and then wonder why the fermentation does not start quickly, or does not progress, or does not finish at SG 0.990. The answer to all these questions: insufficient oxygen at the start of fermentation. I have been fermenting beer as a home brewer for over fifty years, and was the founder of a commerical microbrewery 18 years ago. Just trust me, oxygenation is critidal for successful fermentation.

Don't even think about an air compressor!

[skow69]

This is from Wyeast:

28. What are optimal levels of O2 in wort?

10-15ppm

Back to top >>


29. What is the max level of O2 you can get in a carboy using air?

8 ppm.
Back to top >>


30. Approximately how long do you have to shake a 5 gallon carboy to get oxygen saturation (8ppm)?

45 seconds of vigorous shaking.

Back to top >>


31. How long do you have to run a stone with an aquarium pump to achieve O2 saturation (8ppm) in 5 gallons of wort?

5 minutes.
Back to top >>


32. How do you achieve higher than 8 ppm O2 levels in your wort? .

By injecting pure oxygen into your wort through a stone (1 min for 12 ppm). Or, by flowing pure oxygen into the carboy's head space and shaking for 20 seconds, twice.
Back to top >>


http://www.wyeastlab.com/faqs.cfm?website=1#r42

[ranger_ric]

Nice link Skow!!

Thanks

[MitchyBourbon]

Mitchy,
A couple of questions so I understand YOUR process..
1. 1/2 LIter (of liquid) to how much yeast??? Bakers or DADY?
2. Is the liquid just water or water and wash? water and sugar?
3. When you double it are you just adding water or wash or what??
4. How often are you adding to it??

I have tried something "similar" to this with my Ujssm... As I drain my wash to the boiler from the clearing bucket, I take the yeast at the bottom of the clearing bucket and add it to some fresh water for about 30-45 minutes, then I add about 2 teaspoons of sugar and stir well with a spoon. I let that ride for about an hour and add another spoon ful of sugar until my stillin run is complete and I get to start mixin the next run with some backset. I have about a 80% success rate with this process. Sometimes I have to pitch a new yeast bomb

1. Distillers yeast or a good ale yeast is what I use for all grain. I start off with one packet or equivalent (5 to 8 grams).

2. First I rehydrate in plain warm water, an amount that is 10 times the weight of the yeast. I add this to a 500 ml mix of water and LME. I'd prefer to use my own mash/wort but it has not been mashed yet. I aim for the mix to have an SG of no more than 1.030. I use a stir plate to keep it aerated.

3. After 1 day I add another 500 ml of my water LME mixture. By now my the first 500 ml should be close to dry 1.000, so my next 500 ml of water LME needs to be 1.060.

4. After another day I prepare the final 1 liter of water and LME now I have a liter that should be close to dry 1.000 so I need to prepare 1 liter of water and LME with an SG of 1.06. One more day on the stir plate and it's ready for the fridge.

I use erlenmeyer flasks, I cover them very loosely with tin foil. They need to be exposed somewhat to fresh air. If the air gets choked off the yeast will end up making alcohol instead of more yeast. I also keep this in a room that I can control the ventilation, you don't want a lot of moving air.

[Danespirit]

Mitchy,

How "big" is a big starter, like for a 5 gallon wash??

Comparing to my ferment (i know i use a lot of yeast).. I use 50 G yeast for 10 L ferment. (5 gal. =18,9 L)
I know that i could half that, but yeast is dirt cheap here and i want it to start off in a hurry (depending on what i ferment).
So this is for a birdwatchers, to run on my CCVM.
50 G, in 0,5 L luke warm water.
Let it alone for half a hour (more if the yeast has come from the fridge).
Pour it into the fermenter.
The siliconetube that is on my aquariumpump is sanitized before sticking it in the ferment (another great use for foreshots).
Let it bubble for half a hour or so...cap the fermenter with your waterlock or the like.
Within the first 30 min , there is a lot of action going on down there..the ferment is really going off like a rocket..!
So i leave it alone for the first day or two. Then i cap my fermenter and give it a good shake once a day.
If i do that earlier in the process, the fermenter may explode..! (not kidding..almost had it happen once ).

[S-Cackalacky]

I use a small 1 gallon OILLESS air compressor. I have a stick with a length of clear tubing zip tied to it, so I can put the end all the way to the bottom of the ferment bucket. I use a nozzle attachment that fits snugly inside the clear hose. I have to turn the air flow down fairly low to prevent the wash from splashing out of the buckets. I charge the 1 gallon tank up and then turn the compressor off. One tank charge seems to be enough for four 5 gallon buckets of wash. I always purge the tank after each use. Seems to work just fine.

After aerating, I pitch the yeast on the surface and leave it undisturbed. It always seems to start up pretty quickly. If I'm using bakers yeast, I usually pitch about 3 tablespoons per 5 gallon bucket. If I'm using EC-1118, I pitch one packet per 5 gallon bucket.

[Bushman]

I have always just stirred mine but might give some of these ideas a go. I once watched Mash Rookie stick his welding hose into his 12 gallon fermentor and turn on the oxygen it probably ran a good 5 minutes. With 6 gallon buckets a good stir works great but I can see it with a larger vessel.

[ben stiller]

I have used the aquarium air stone, an arrow shaft with plastic vanes in a cordless drill (stole it from Rad I think), but lately I have been using a large wisk and just beating the surface for a while. Never had a ferment take longer than 15 minutes to start. Rarely use yeast bombs and only use bakers yeast.

[shadylane]

I use a drill and homemade stirrer to make a tornado/whirlpool in the mash.
And a garden hose is sprayed into washes for aeration.

[bearriver]

I fill my fermenter through the drain valve with silicone tubing. There is a small hole in the tubing that I plug with a golf tee. With the hole unplugged and water running, it sucks tiny bubbles aggressively into the line as the fermenter is filled. That's two dead birds, one stone.

I have a crap load of airstones and aquarium pumps. Those work well but I don't bother with them.

[MitchyBourbon]

Mitchy,

How "big" is a big starter, like for a 5 gallon wash??

Comparing to my ferment (i know i use a lot of yeast).. I use 50 G yeast for 10 L ferment. (5 gal. =18,9 L)
I know that i could half that, but yeast is dirt cheap here and i want it to start off in a hurry (depending on what i ferment).
So this is for a birdwatchers, to run on my CCVM.

That is a pretty high pitch rate but it may not be as high as mine. After decanting I pitch a pretty solid yeast cake that is about 250 to 300 ml. I would imagine your birdwatchers distills pretty clean. Are you aerating? Do you add any nutrients? When you distill with you ccvm, do end up with a low amount of heads and tails?

[BaxtersDad]

The issue is not only how quickly fementation starts, but also how long it takes and whether it reaches 1.000 or lower final gravity. All of these are affected by the initial oxygenation. Also, I would not use an aquarium air stone - a stainless steel sintered stone from a homebrew shop costs under $15 and will last a lifetime.

I have used the aquarium air stone, an arrow shaft with plastic vanes in a cordless drill (stole it from Rad I think), but lately I have been using a large wisk and just beating the surface for a while. Never had a ferment take longer than 15 minutes to start. Rarely use yeast bombs and only use bakers yeast.

[BoomTown]

Ok guys, I confess. I cheat. I like simple.

1st of all, I splash my water between 2 buckets after drawing it out of a filtered faucet that makes all kinds of bubbles as it fills the 2 gallon buckets.

2nd, I try to heat about ⅔ the water I plan to use in the mash to about 190 F, and avoid boiling. Then I sift in my corn, and turn the heat back.

3rd, Let the temps hover at about 180f for about 45 min, do a starch test, and if it passes, shut off the heat. transfer the mass from the mash tun to a 6 gal, plastic bucket,

4th, add in the last ⅓ of my water (at 120f) and my Wheat and Barley Malt, and stir vigorusly till I get clear of any lumps. The Temp drops to about 150f immediately. I wrap the bucket in a blanket, and let it set overnight.

5th, Come morning, temps are usually down below 100f, so I take an OG reading, OG's run at about 1.054 to 1.060,stir in a 1tbs of bakers yeast, snap the lid on the bucket and check to make sure the bubbler is working with enough fluid in it to bubble once the yeast kicks in. I re-wrap the bucket with its blanket, and come back in 2 or 3 hours to see if the bubbler is working. If it's not, I make a yeast bomb and toss that in. 5 days later, the bubbler is usually still popping about once every 15 seconds. So I pop the top, check the SG, SG consistently finishes at 1.0 or less, and separate the solids, and set aside to settle/clear. pH finishes usually 4.5 to 4.0

My point is, oxygen management of 5 gallon batches is very controllable without using a lot of expensive hardware when I address the oxygenation problem as I start, and don't boil the water. My yeasts nearly always take right off, and finish smoothly.

[Danespirit]

Mitchy,

How "big" is a big starter, like for a 5 gallon wash??

Comparing to my ferment (i know i use a lot of yeast).. I use 50 G yeast for 10 L ferment. (5 gal. =18,9 L)
I know that i could half that, but yeast is dirt cheap here and i want it to start off in a hurry (depending on what i ferment).
So this is for a birdwatchers, to run on my CCVM.

That is a pretty high pitch rate but it may not be as high as mine. After decanting I pitch a pretty solid yeast cake that is about 250 to 300 ml. I would imagine your birdwatchers distills pretty clean. Are you aerating? Do you add any nutrients? When you distill with you ccvm, do end up with a low amount of heads and tails?

Yes Mitchy, it distills very clean..even if i just run it through my pot still (strip and spiritrun)..gives a nice vodka like spirit.
I don't bother making a OG reading anymore, cause this recipe is pretty consistant and "fool proof".
However, it should be around 1,100 before pitching the yeast, and end up with 14-15 % ABV.
The recipe will allow you to ferment a small batch ferment in the least amount of time (ferments dry within 3-4 days at maximum).
Recipe for 2X8 L ferment..:
1 can of tomatopaste as nutrient (140 G) divided into each fermenter.
1 B-vitamin pill for each fermenter (yeast loves it..)
2 Kg of sugar for each fermenter. 1,5 Kg at the start, the rest after two days.
As the ferment has a potential alcohol yield just short of 15%, you don't want to stress the yeast with to much sugar at the start.
50 G of bakers yeast, is added to 0,5 L of luke warm water, to make a yeast bomb...
1 L boiling water is poured into the fermenter, swirl it around (sanitizes the fermenter).
0,5L water added and everything else besides the yeast.
Give it a shake. Top up with the appropriate amount of tempered water.
When the yeast is ready (about half a hour) , pitch the yeast.
Airiate for 15 min to half a hour. (i use my cheap aquarium pump).
Cap the fermenter with a airlock and let it alone for at least one day (it takes off like a rocket..!).
Give it a shake at least once a day until it's fermented dry..
I experimented a lot during the past two years, and this ferment seems to give me the least amounts of foreshots/heads.
You can even run it in pot still mode with a very pleasant spirit as a result.
If run on a pot still, you can collect deep down into the tails, without any off taste.(amazingly..!!)
The tails will just get "watery" below 30% ABV.
I collect everything until i hit the wall at 20% ABV (both stripping and spiritrun).
If run on my CCVM/VM, i do a strippingrun with my pot still or Ethylisator first..(see the link in my signature)
Running it of the CCVM/VM, i don't bother with tails...they are IMHO not worth to keep for a recycling.
A few pictures of my fermenters:

IMG_1826.JPG (15.19 KiB) Viewed 5326 times

Edit: Forgot the part with topping up with water (edited by now ).

[skow69]

Boom Town, what kind of starch test are you doing in step 3?

[BoomTown]

Mitchy,

How "big" is a big starter, like for a 5 gallon wash??

Comparing to my ferment (i know i use a lot of yeast).. I use 50 G yeast for 10 L ferment. (5 gal. =18,9 L)
I know that i could half that, but yeast is dirt cheap here and i want it to start off in a hurry (depending on what i ferment).
So this is for a birdwatchers, to run on my CCVM.

That is a pretty high pitch rate but it may not be as high as mine. After decanting I pitch a pretty solid yeast cake that is about 250 to 300 ml. I would imagine your birdwatchers distills pretty clean. Are you aerating? Do you add any nutrients? When you distill with you ccvm, do end up with a low amount of heads and tails?

Yes Mitchy, it distills very clean..even if i just run it through my pot still (strip and spiritrun)..gives a nice vodka like spirit.
I don't bother making a OG reading anymore, cause this recipe is pretty consistant and "fool proof".
However, it should be around 1,100 before pitching the yeast, and end up with 14-15 % ABV.
The recipe will allow you to ferment a small batch ferment in the least amount of time (ferments dry within 3-4 days at maximum).
Recipe for 2X8 L ferment..:
1 can of tomatopaste as nutrient (140 G) divided into each fermenter.
1 B-vitamin pill for each fermenter (yeast loves it..)
2 Kg of sugar for each fermenter. 1,5 Kg at the start, the rest after two days.
As the ferment has a potential alcohol yield just short of 15%, you don't want to stress the yeast with to much sugar at the start.
50 G of bakers yeast, is added to 0,5 L of luke warm water, to make a yeast bomb...
1 L boiling water is poured into the fermenter, swirl it around (sanitizes the fermenter).
0,5L water added and everything else besides the yeast.
Give it a shake.
When the yeast is ready (about half a hour) , pitch the yeast.
Airiate for 15 min to half a hour. (i use my cheap aquarium pump).
Cap the fermenter with a airlock and let it alone for at least one day (it takes off like a rocket..!).
Give it a shake at least once a day until it's fermented dry..
I experimented a lot during the past two years, and this ferment seems to give me the least amounts of foreshots/heads.
You can even run it in pot still mode with a very pleasant spirit as a result.
If run on a pot still, you can collect deep down into the tails, without any off taste.(amazingly..!!)
The tails will just get "watery" below 30% ABV.
I collect everything until i hit the wall at 20% ABV (both stripping and spiritrun).
If run on my CCVM/VM, i do a strippingrun with my pot still or Ethylisator first..(see the link in my signature)
Running it of the CCVM/VM, i don't bother with tails...they are IMHO not worth to keep for a recycling.
A few pictures of my fermenters:

IMG_1826.JPG

IMG_1828.JPG

++++!1

[Johnnywhiskey]

I wail the shit outta mine with a drill and mortar mixer. Get it spinnin into a good vortex and good to go.

+1. Don't over think it or make it more complicated than necessary. Not sure if mine is a mortar mixer or paint stirrer, but it works. Good for mixing a mash or wash too.

[FreeMountainHermit]

Here's the aquarium aerator that I use. Does the job very well as illustrated by the pic in the link.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291488495717?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Have also used a kitchen stick blender as well as a drywall paddle attached to a drill with equal results.

[jb-texshine]

I use a wooden boat paddle....seriously!

[Danespirit]

Here's the aquarium aerator that I use. Does the job very well as illustrated by the pic in the link.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291488495717?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Have also used a kitchen stick blender as well as a drywall paddle attached to a drill with equal results.

+1 FMH..
A similar device is what i have, just cheaper..think it was 6 or 7$.
I ditched the airstones at the end and made myself a little basket out of stainless.
The airstones are porous and stuff from your ferment will settle inside them, causing a environment for mold and/or bacteria.
The stainless basket is just flushed with a squeeze of boiling water, when i make my coffee anyway..
It should be sufficient to kill everything that may be on there..