flavor loss--- reflux/thumper

[saltwatersaint]

I'm new to distilling, only a few runs and ferments under my belt. Just sugar washes to get aquainted with my still and the processes. Anyway, I run a 13 gal with 42" torpedo reflux column 3" wide over propane flame. Anyhow, I realize that in the whole process, a pot still with no thumper is where you'd carry over the most flavor for whiskeys. And that a thumper on a pot still basically eliminates having to do the second run for the higher proofs so to speak, while At the same time sacrificing some of the flavor. Well a thumper is used for whiskeys and corn liquor all the time. But a reflux still like I have isn't really looked at as something you run whiskeys in if your using reflux because you get too high of an abv and lose most all the flavor and create more of a neutral. All of that may not be exact but you get the point im making. Well my question is this, is it possible to pack the column and create the proper amount of reflux so that you are only getting around the abv percentage you would be getting running a thumper? So that you would save flavor and not get too high of an ethanol purity? Or does the process of reflux just somehow strip the flavor out nomatter what? Can I do good whiskey with my reflux still in one run if I get the packing and methods right???

[still_stirrin]

Well, you won't get grain flavor out of a sugar wash. Even the sugarheads with flavoring grains don't produce the flavor of a grain mash.

But you asked if you can modify the reflux column to reduce the reflux ratio and lower the purity of product to retain more of the wash's original flavor....sure you can.

1. Reduce the amount of reflux by slowing the cooling water flow to the reflux condenser on a CM reflux still.

2. Eliminate half or more of the column packing, perhaps 2/3 of it, so that condensation falls directly back into the boiler. That will reduce the "stacking of the packing" in the column and allow more of the vapor to proceed to the product condenser.

3. Run the still faster, that is, turn up the heat on the boiler. It will push the vapor faster and the reflux head will only reflux at a lesser rate, allowing the vapor to pass to the PC. But don't overrun your PC...you don't want vapor to exit the distillate outlet. The limitation here is the condensing power of your PC.

But, you'll find the job is a lot easier if you use the right tools. Just read up...and build yourself a potstill head (save the reflux "torpedo" for your neutrals). If you're so inclined, build a thumper/doubler to raise the product to the 160 proof range. Or, simply run it twice through the potstill. It makes great whiskeys and rums.

Be safe. Be responsible. And be discrete.
ss

[bearriver]

Most reflux rigs can run with a reflux ratio of 1:0 to 0:1. That allows for some serious versatility. Any notion that you can't make a flavorful whiskey from a reflux rig is rubbish.

With aged products I tend to run my LM still at or slightly above cask strength. This maintains a balance between strong flavor carry over and a high enough proof to age on oak. I never "detune" the packing but instead control the RR to hit my target proof and flavor profile. Works well for me.

I agree with SS in that detuning the packing will make it easier to not go overboard on the reflux ratio (given your desired profile). But at the same time there is a benefit in learning how to run your still in full configuration and be able to obtain your desired results. You can run a pot still stuffed with packing for example (a common sight to see) and the packing will do exactly nothing to the proof or profile.

The reflux controls the flavor profile in a packed column. Control the reflux = control the profile.

All this said, the best equipment IMO for high proof flavored spirits is a plated column.

[raketemensch]

Check the second link in my sig for an interesting discussion on getting flavor out of your column.

[biker geek]

I have about 32 inches of column under my reflux coil and have about the equivalent of 4 plate worth of copper mesh, and I'm kinda surprised at how little separation I get even at 90% take off. When I do single runs on experimental washes, i settle it in at about 70% take off and the hearts have a fair amount of flavor. My opinion is that it come down to learning your cuts.

[raketemensch]

I have about 32 inches of column under my reflux coil and have about the equivalent of 4 plate worth of copper mesh, and I'm kinda surprised at how little separation I get even at 90% take off. When I do single runs on experimental washes, i settle it in at about 70% take off and the hearts have a fair amount of flavor. My opinion is that it come down to learning your cuts.

I honestly don't think you can have a "plate worth" of copper mesh. While it may interrupt vapor flow and cause condensation, mesh can't collect water into a pool and force vapor to pass through it.

Someone in the Flute Talk thread was talking about experimenting with making plates out of sheet PTFE, I think I'm going to give that a shot too.

[biker geek]

The parent site has a calculator for a mesh eq to (theoretical)plates. It shows an approximation of the results from one or the other. The mesh is 3 rolls of the copper mesh you can get from an of the distiller or pest control site. The fact that they don't work exactly like a plate isn't even remotely relevant.

[saltwatersaint]

Thanks for all the great feedback guys. After I posted that, I had some serious medical matters in the family before I had time to see any of the responses. And then weeks later I couldn't remember where I had posted that question or if I had even gotten around to posting it. Finally found it and wanted to say thanks for taking time to respond.