Some advice for fermenting a corn based wash please

[Anavrin]

Hi Guys

I'm over in the UK, I've been distilling for a couple of years now but this is the first time I've tried my hand at making some Bourbon, I've experimented with a small batch of just 1lb corn to one US gallon of water, I managed to gelatinise the corn and after adding some Rye and Malted 2 row barley I got a decent enough conversion.

The only thing I'm not sure about is how you guys go about fermenting the wash, do you leave it on the grain or strain the liquid off?

[bobsuruncle]

anavrin, welcome!
I'm sure that question will get 50/50 mixed answers, but honestly if you are experimenting with such small batches, experiment... do one each way, I'm fermenting a 30lb batch right now, but since I am going to follow up with a 19.25 pound batch I did the first off the grain, and will follow with 15% backing to blend flavors/as well as add some flavor, with the 19.25 lb batch on the grain. I simply didn't have the time or inclination to press that much grain by hand... a small batch just to compare side by side would help you more than opinions... (my current attempt is a bourbon style also, 67% corn, 23% malted barley, 10% flaked rye)

[Anavrin]

Thanks bobsuruncle

My attempt was 80% corn 8% rye and 12% malted barley, think I read somewhere that that would be similar to JD, I didn't really know where to start, most guys over here in the UK are making neutral, scotch whisky or rum but there's a few of us who have decided to order in some cracked corn and have a go at the fine spirits from the other side of the pond.

My first impression is that corn is a really messy business and a lot of work but I'm looking forward to my results once I figure out the best way to get the starch out, convert it and ferment it.

My still is a 50litre keg with a 3x4" plates, I also have a packed section filled with SPP for running neutral, how many plates would most of you guys run for a Borbon spirit run with a stripped low wines at 30%?

Sorry if my questions sound a little basic, I'm a experianced distiller but a bit of a noob when it comes to American Whiskey's.

[der wo]

Only 12% malt? Good conversion?
Yes that's the JD grain bill. But I am sure, they add enzymes to push the conversion.
Do a hydrometer reading at the end of fermentation, so you will see.

American whiskey is fermented and distilled on the grain. But if you can't distill on the grain without scorching, you have to lauter after fermentation.

There are a few tried and true recipes for bourbon here.
You should read them, because you will get answers for coming questions.

[DAD300]

Your grain to water sounds light...I use a total of two pounds per gallon on most everything.

Run it through your SPP column as you normally would and collect everything in small containers, air over night and then mix back the good jars... using some late heads and good tails. Gives you more control!

[bobsuruncle]

haha, yeah, so far I've found out that corn burns calories...but amylase added in as it starts to loosen up the starches helps, thins the mix back out so stirring isn't as bad... as the temps rise you will kill off the enzyme, but the labor saved is worth a few spoons of amylase.. I agree with dad300.. 2lbs per gallon gets you easier stirring, and more area for the starches and sugar to suspend in.

I wait for about 30min, stirring, after I add the amylase at about 150-160f, then continue with the heat up, I take mine to a boil, kill the heat ant only stir about every 10min as it cools back to 150f, then I add the rest of my amylase and dump it into a IceChest covered for about three hours. This gives the amylase plenty of time to work, with your amount of water, and no noted enzymes, I bet you were seriously doubting bigger batches..haha about four hours into my last mash I was wondering if I REALLY wanted to do this..haha its fun though.

definitely read up on the cuts.... it will help you make a mediocre mash into a fine drink, and I have a feeling you won't be impressed with JD very long.. stay with it!

[Anavrin]

Cheers for the help guys, hopefully I'll have time this weekend to get a batch on the go

[Anavrin]

Ok so I had a go yesterday at mashing some corn, only hit SG1.040 so not sure it was a successful as it could have been, maybe one of you guys could have a look at my numbers and let me know what you think, here's my method.

I have a Grainfather brewing system, it's a 30 litre boiler with a removable malt tube with a false bottom to ensure any grain doesn't come in contact with the heating element, it also allows the grain to be removed and sparged.

I heated 25litres of water adding 4kg of cracked corn, I brought it up to 90°c (194°f) and held it there for an hour, mixing often, I also had the pump running which recirculates the liquid in the boiler.

Then after cooling to 66°c (151°f) I mixed in 1.9kg of 2 row malted barley and 770gr Rye malt, and held it there for 90 mins, again stiring lots, by this time the inner malt tube was quite full of grain, maybe too tightly packed.

I removed the grain and sparged with 10litres of hot water through the grain to rinse out the last of the sugars.

The result was 26litres at SG1.040, seems a bit light on the conversion too me, any suggestions?

[Swedish Pride]

I've got worse protocol than you but I know what I'm doing wrong
I say your issue is cracked corn and time at 90c.
I've been told that you need to re-crack the corn for better conversion and to hold it at 90c for longer, two hours would be good or more if you have the time to spare.
Other than that it sounds good, you've got a good set up with the grainfather, I assume you do beer as well?

[der wo]

To calculate a possible OG is difficult, because you sparged and lautered. On the grain the calculation would be easy.
I never mashed cracked corn, but many here gelatinize it over night. I always use milled corn, it is not much more expensive where I live.
Perhaps you could do a research her for premashing. And for NChoochs bourbon.
In case you will be not happy with the FG, you should think about the 66°C. In my opinion way too hot, when you want all the sugars fermentable. 66°C is more the a temperature for a one rest beer with mouthfeel not a dry like hell fermented whiskey mash.

[Johnnywhiskey]

The result was 26litres at SG1.040, seems a bit light on the conversion too me, any suggestions?

I'm guessing that the best way to increase your yield is to grind / mill your corn more finely. When I optimized my bourbon mashing process I found that running my cracked corn through a Corona mill greatly increased the availability of starch for conversion. Commercial distillers mill corn to a course flour or finer. If you are going to lauder the mash (which I do also) you might not be able to go that fine, but the finer the better for starch extraction. You might also add some rice hulls to the mash to help it drain. And if you can get your hands on some high temperature amylase (like SEBstar HT or something similar) that will let you gelatinize and convert starches at the same high temperature, which simplifies the process and probably increases the yields some. You can still use your malted grains once the temperature comes down.

[skow69]

+1 for enzymes and grind the corn. I get total hydration in 90 minutes at 185-190. I grind the corn to meal in the blender. It takes 20 seconds per pound. And I use SEBamyl. It's cheap insurance.

EDIT: SEBstar and SEBamyl

[TurtleLA]

Everything everyone is telling you is spot on. I've screwed up quite a few AG mashes and learned something each time. I PM some guys for help and it is starting to pay off. Bayoushine has been a big help. Here is what I do. My local tap water isn't the best so I add supplements at the beginning (Epsom salt, calcium gluconate, etc) of my boil to enhance the water. I get my calculations using http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemi ... alculator/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow I stick to corn meal now or as fine as I can get. Once I get to boil, turn the heat off and check my pH. You want it around 6.0-6.5pH to add sebstar HI temp enzymes and my corn and mix it with my drill and paint stirrer for 15 min. Make sure you insulate whatever is holding your mash. I stir every 15 min. When my temp gets to 155 I pitch my other malts depending on recipe and I also add my SEbamyl GL or alpha amylase. I think holding the temp at this point is most important to get a high efficiency conversion. I keep that temp above 140 degrees for atleast an hour and a half to two hours. Don't forget to do an iodine test. After a few hours I put my wort chiller in there and get my temp down to 80 degrees. Check my OG hoping I got the best conversion efficiency over 85% (starch to sugar.) Pitch my yeast and wait till I get a SG close to 1.0. Good luck