Apple Brandy - Calvados
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Apple Brandy - Calvados
Hi All,
I have successfully aged and smoothed ordinary Brandy when I distilled grape lees. However, I have now distilled my crop of apples into Cider or as the Americans say, Hard Cider and now am going to distill it into Apple Brandy or Calvados.
Does anyone know whether it is possible or advisable to smooth the spirit with say glycerine which I did with my Grape Brandy. I later coloured with glocose the Grape Brandy, but won't do that with my Calvados.
I will then age the Calvados in French Oak for at least 3 years. My Grape Brandy after 5 years was terrific.
Any help with Calvados will be much appreciated.
Take care,
Ken in Madeira
I have successfully aged and smoothed ordinary Brandy when I distilled grape lees. However, I have now distilled my crop of apples into Cider or as the Americans say, Hard Cider and now am going to distill it into Apple Brandy or Calvados.
Does anyone know whether it is possible or advisable to smooth the spirit with say glycerine which I did with my Grape Brandy. I later coloured with glocose the Grape Brandy, but won't do that with my Calvados.
I will then age the Calvados in French Oak for at least 3 years. My Grape Brandy after 5 years was terrific.
Any help with Calvados will be much appreciated.
Take care,
Ken in Madeira
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!
- nerdybrewer
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Re: Apple Brandy - Calvados
Hi Ken, the oak will color your brandy nicely, if done right.
With apples it's difficult to keep the apple flavor after distilling so what I've been told is to not go too heavy with the wood.
As to adding anything to the spirit, personally I'd wait to see what you have after aging - that's what I'm doing.
I have a gallon of apple brandy I am aging white and another gallon in which I have put charred apple wood and toasted apple wood.
I toasted the apple wood in our oven for 90 minutes at 400F.
The gallon that is on apple wood is coloring nicely now after only about two weeks, it still has a long time to age but when it reaches the color I like I will remove the wood.
Hope this helps, others may join in who have considerable more experience like Cranky and Jimbo.
With apples it's difficult to keep the apple flavor after distilling so what I've been told is to not go too heavy with the wood.
As to adding anything to the spirit, personally I'd wait to see what you have after aging - that's what I'm doing.
I have a gallon of apple brandy I am aging white and another gallon in which I have put charred apple wood and toasted apple wood.
I toasted the apple wood in our oven for 90 minutes at 400F.
The gallon that is on apple wood is coloring nicely now after only about two weeks, it still has a long time to age but when it reaches the color I like I will remove the wood.
Hope this helps, others may join in who have considerable more experience like Cranky and Jimbo.
Cranky's spoonfeeding:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52975
Time and Oak will sort it out.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52975
Time and Oak will sort it out.
Re: Apple Brandy - Calvados
Thanks NerdyBrewer,
I hope it goes OK. I still have to distill the Cider which I should do in the next week or so.
In my original post I said that I had coloured my Grape Brandy with Glucose, but that is incorrect. The glucose is another smoothing agent, and had I wanted to add some colour I would have used Caramel. However, I eventually just left the colouring to the barrel and time.
So I'll just do that and see,
Perhaps I'll be lucky enough to hear also from Cranky and Jimbo.
Thanks again.
Take care,
Kind regards,
Ken
I hope it goes OK. I still have to distill the Cider which I should do in the next week or so.
In my original post I said that I had coloured my Grape Brandy with Glucose, but that is incorrect. The glucose is another smoothing agent, and had I wanted to add some colour I would have used Caramel. However, I eventually just left the colouring to the barrel and time.
So I'll just do that and see,
Perhaps I'll be lucky enough to hear also from Cranky and Jimbo.
Thanks again.
Take care,
Kind regards,
Ken
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!
Re: Apple Brandy - Calvados
Hint: The HD Google Search will find Jimbo's advice.
Re: Apple Brandy - Calvados
Thanks NZ Chris
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!
- cranky
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Re: Apple Brandy - Calvados
I know I'm a little late to this one but figured I would put my 2 cents in. My own fruit thread is here
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =7&t=48881
There is 2 years worth of fruity goodness to read about there.
Not to put too fine of a point on it but actual calvadose follows a lot of rule of course beginning with the region, Normandy. Not really a big issue with us but there are also requirements for specific types of apples, the apples must be drops but shaking the tree is allowed. The apples are ground then the pomace allowed to sit for a period of hours to several days before being pressed. The cider is allowed to ferment and rest for up to a year before being distilled. After distillation some, but not all makers will use new toasted, not charred, french oak barrels for a short period of time before moving it to well used french oak barrels. Some barrels are more than 100 years old but they must be well used so as not to impart too much flavor from the wood itself. It must remain in the barrels for several years sometimes several decades before being declared ready. Another thing they do is gradually temper it in the barrels while it's aging.
I'm by no means a calvadose snob but I personally am trying to replicate the French way as closely as I can. So I use sticks that have been well used in grape or other brandy before they go in the apple. The trick is to find the ghost of the apple and coax it back out. Cuts are hard with apples and finding that ghost is tricky. It takes a while to find the flavor and no artificial aging technique will bring it out.
Some people do fine aging on new charred oak but I personally think too much of the apple flavor is covered up and lost that way but that's my own opinion.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =7&t=48881
There is 2 years worth of fruity goodness to read about there.
Not to put too fine of a point on it but actual calvadose follows a lot of rule of course beginning with the region, Normandy. Not really a big issue with us but there are also requirements for specific types of apples, the apples must be drops but shaking the tree is allowed. The apples are ground then the pomace allowed to sit for a period of hours to several days before being pressed. The cider is allowed to ferment and rest for up to a year before being distilled. After distillation some, but not all makers will use new toasted, not charred, french oak barrels for a short period of time before moving it to well used french oak barrels. Some barrels are more than 100 years old but they must be well used so as not to impart too much flavor from the wood itself. It must remain in the barrels for several years sometimes several decades before being declared ready. Another thing they do is gradually temper it in the barrels while it's aging.
I'm by no means a calvadose snob but I personally am trying to replicate the French way as closely as I can. So I use sticks that have been well used in grape or other brandy before they go in the apple. The trick is to find the ghost of the apple and coax it back out. Cuts are hard with apples and finding that ghost is tricky. It takes a while to find the flavor and no artificial aging technique will bring it out.
Some people do fine aging on new charred oak but I personally think too much of the apple flavor is covered up and lost that way but that's my own opinion.
Re: Apple Brandy - Calvados
Bit late to this thread but thank you for this post. I've made several batches of apple brandy but have never been able to replicate the fruit forward flavor of calvados. Friends just brought me back some Coquerel calvados and it's sparked my interest in trying it again. I will try to age the apples more before and during the ferment process. I'm not able to get the same apples as in Normany, but that's not my biggest worry . The cuts are where I need more work
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Re: Apple Brandy - Calvados
My .02...
Slow fermentation is one thing that helps keep the apple flavor in cider. Another is yeast selection. For the last few years I have been using ECC1118 and I find that it finishes too dry. This year I am going back to Mangrove Jack's cider yeast. And then yes, cuts. You need to keep more of the later heads and then allow it to age and smooth out.
Slow fermentation is one thing that helps keep the apple flavor in cider. Another is yeast selection. For the last few years I have been using ECC1118 and I find that it finishes too dry. This year I am going back to Mangrove Jack's cider yeast. And then yes, cuts. You need to keep more of the later heads and then allow it to age and smooth out.
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Re: Apple Brandy - Calvados
The local cider makers (and apparently a good number of the smaller calvados producers) swear by using the natural yeast present on the apples coupled with a long slow, cool ferment. The champagne yeast that I pitched two nights ago doesn't seem to be very happy with the low (7°C this morning) temps so unless I can get a good sized starter of a "cool" yeast going I suspect it'll be the wild yeasts that take over.
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A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
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Re: Apple Brandy - Calvados
Long slow ferment. EC1118. Strip & spirit in a copper pot still. Small fores/heads cut. Stop when the tails show up. Strip the feints out. Add the feints to a a good piggy-back sugar head bourbon run with wide cuts. Knock down to 55% and leave it white. Chill a jar in the frig and sip after you have enjoyed a good bbq meal. You can thank me later.
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Re: Apple Brandy - Calvados
Would a kveik yeast that makes a lot of esters be a good thing? I realize that it's at the polar opposite of the "long & slow ferment" recommendation.
Or how about a lager yeast that likes lower temps? I've made some tasty hard ciders using Lallemand Belle Saison yeast & also Nottingham Ale yeast.
Or how about a lager yeast that likes lower temps? I've made some tasty hard ciders using Lallemand Belle Saison yeast & also Nottingham Ale yeast.
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- cranky
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Re: Apple Brandy - Calvados
I've considered a lager yeast for the cold ferment but never used one. My advice is if it makes good cider it will make good brandy. 1118 is my go to below 50f but I prefer D-47 or 71b1122 for the added esters. Last year I used Cider House with excellent results but cuts were very difficult.rubberduck71 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 4:58 pm Would a kveik yeast that makes a lot of esters be a good thing? I realize that it's at the polar opposite of the "long & slow ferment" recommendation.
Or how about a lager yeast that likes lower temps? I've made some tasty hard ciders using Lallemand Belle Saison yeast & also Nottingham Ale yeast.
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Re: Apple Brandy - Calvados
I was recently very fortunate to be able to speak for about 10 minutes with Benjamin Renaud, cider maker for Romilly cidre who also produces calvados. When speaking on the subject, he only uses used wine barrels from burgundy, mostly whites but is experimenting with reds as we speak. He said champagne yeasts are the way to start out, low temp, slow ferments. As mentioned here, apples used in actual calvados will have much more tannin and will used a decent amount of pear.
Re: Apple Brandy - Calvados
I am thinking of adding apples to the gin basket on the spirit run. Has anyone tried this?
Re: Apple Brandy - Calvados
You might check out the geist thread Hopper. It appears there are different fractions of flavor extraction, and alcohol proof requirements that may not line up withe the strength and length of a spirit run. But, I have no practical experience to speak from!
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