Home Distiller

Am in process of building my first still - a Combo Pot Still /Bokabob setup, and already have most of my parts (a little new and mostly salvage/used) on hand.
As you may note, I tend to overbuild a bit, so as not to 'back myself in a corner', at a later date.
Thinking, I'm pretty close to a decent utilitarian design, but want to run it by some of you, for your thoughts.
I could use some advice on a couple of items...and have read a ton of posts in this forum before I started, but can't seem to find the remaining info I need.
See illustration below text...see red items for some of my questions

My objectives:
1. Primarily, high flavor, 75-80 proof, barrel-aged ," bourbonish" sipping' ultimate end product. (Will begin with a simple sugar mash, then to UJSSM version, and perhaps on to an AG version, once I build a decent cooker.)
2. Some rum...maybe some gin...maybe some malted whiskey...
3. Some fairly clean 170 proof 'neutrals' to experiment with.

My rig:
1. 15.5 G keg with 5500 watt a single ULWD element and controller on a 30 Amp 220V volt circuit
Bokabob Mode
2. 22" tall Boka Head assembly (single coil with cold finger) with about 300 sq inches of heat transfer and 1.5" gap between 'slant' plates.
3. 5 feet of packed 3" copper, 2 piece, column in Bokabob mode.
4. 44" of 1/2" in 3/4" product 'cooler' after take off valve.

Pot Still Mode:
1. 30" of 3" column (no packing) Am using a 30" column section only to gain a bit of height to get my 'product collection rig' under the longer condenser.
2. 3" reduced to 3/4" vapor take off.
3. 55" long (jacketed portion) of 3/4' in 1-1/2" Liebig condenser with 6 ga loose coiled copper wire in vapor tube and in jacket tube. (I know it might be overkill, but made if for possible use with a future 4" pot still running wide open with 5500 Watts)

Note: All condensing/cooling water pumped from (and returned to) a 10k gallon swimming pool @ around 75-80°F at around 2- 5 liters minute, with high pressure/low volume adjustable pump.

My questions:
1. In either mode, will the 2" keg to 3" column reducer be any kind of rate 'choking' or restriction factor? Or, do I need to have a 3" TC ferrule welded to keg?
2. Is the 300 sq inches of heat transfer area in Boka head adequate to handle the rest of the rig? Keep in mind that single coil and cold finger are both 15" long.
2. Should I use a 1/2" or 3/8" takeoff/valve for the Boka head? I can get a used 1/2" SS needle valve for $25...
3. Will I need to insulate the Boka Mode column for optimum performance?
4. In pot still mode, is there any reason to use 3" 90° ell vs. 3/4" 90° ell?
5. What else would you suggest that I consider or change, in order to meet my previously stated objectives

Thanks very much for any advice, which you may have!

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1.N
2.Y
2. Two again? 1/2"
3.Y
4.N
5.Read more Home Distiller stuff.

Thanks bearriver!

Quick and succinct response...just what I was hoping for!

Am planning on reading even more HD stuff....as soon as my eyes quit bleeding...have spent 8-10 hours reading it already... but, my problem, at age 75, is remembering all that I read...

One 'last' question which I forgot to include:
Since I have so many 3" joints. instead of TC ferrules, clamps and gaskets, is using 3" copper couplings (one end soldered, and one end just 'slip fit' (for take down), with maybe an exterior rubber big bike tube sealer band? Have seen it used in several posts and wonder if that method has any inherent prob?

elvisbubba

PS: No charge for the extra "Item 2"...

Very nice drawing!
If it were me, I'd use triclamps everywhere. They're easy to put together and leakfree.
Especially at you liebig connection, makes it super easy to adjust take off height. When I do stripping runs I can collect in a small jar for fores, then raise it up a bit for a big pot to collect the rest. No need for wrenches.
Whatever you do, no rubber!

The name of the design is Bokakob... It's a palindrome...

You could easily cut back on the liebig size from 55"... 30" - 36" of water jacket has proven more than enough even with 5500 Watts running flat out... You could also scale back on the packed column... 36" - 48" would be more than enough for a 3" column... That 22" reflux head is also a bit over-sized...

Getting into right-sized dimensions will be cheaper and make things easier all around... Bigger isn't always better... Sometimes bigger is, well, just bigger...

Cheaper not really an issue on this build, since all tubing, which was the cheapest part of the still, was bought for scrap price. Fittings, welding, control electronics, ht'g. element & adapter, power wire, plugs/sockets, and keg and tun were really the big hitters.

For example:
3" tubing cost me less than $1 per inch...so, the difference in cost between a 48" and a 60" column is about $10.00, and 60" of packed column certainly falls within the 12:1 and the 30:1 HxD recommend ratio range , at 20:1.

And Liebig is already made...and seemingly based on HD calculator at 3500 watts...see below. Is the calculator not accurate?
Both condenser tubes together cost me about $0.40 per inch, so the difference between a 36" and a 55" is about $8.50

I don't want to use city water, as my monthly bill is around $85-90. Not interested in ice...Will use pool water at ambient temp with a small water pond pump, so HD calculator says I will need more heat transfer surface.

However, I thought about putting a worm inside one of these which can be had, used, for $50-75...
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nez7uy1qf3c6 ... V.pdf?dl=0

Of course the Koalabok is slightly oversized... and has 15" single coil with cold finger. Same HD calculator says that I need 170" of tube length to knock down 4500 watts, which is 24 turns of coil, which makes coil 12" long. I'm using 29-30 turns, because that's about how long my original coil of copper is, and which takes up another 3" in length, which leaves 7" for both plates, plate gap, and TC ferrule, which take up about 5", thus leaving about 2" for me to loosely trim, as I see fit, during fabrication. I like to not have to work to get too much into a too small space. These generous dimensions are not a big deal... since I'm not that anal about it being just right, as long as it isn't too undersized in any respect

Am figuring that, as stated in my 'Topic' post, " As you may note, I tend to overbuild a bit, so as not to 'back myself in a corner', at a later date." the still may have $20-25 and 15 lbs more copper than 'might' be needed, which certainly single digit percentage points of total cost) in order to help lower risk of a 'do over'. I just don't see it as a big deal... Remember the old saw about cutting hair... "You can cut it shorter, but never longer."

Did you have any response the other questions that I did ask about

Chart input: water 76°F (in) and 104°F (out), 3/4" vapor tube, 3500 watts 'net' to column = 55" jacketed length at 3.35 L/min (a little less than a G/min)

That calculator is less than accurate, as has been discussed here... You could have asked, or searched the forums to see how everyone else is building their stills successfully... If you haven't done enough research to discover these things then now might be a good time to do so - before you go any further... The time to know what you need to know is before putting solder to copper... This isn't a race...

"That calculator is less than accurate, as has been discussed here."
Have been referred to that condenser calc page by several people. With hundreds of forum pages to review, it is difficult to find every detail, which may disagree with it.
A wide range of antidotal opinions on this and other forums, can be confusing, and can be difficult to compare with a "less than adequate" HD published calculator. Why would anyone question the calculator? If it is wrong, has anyone requested that it be removed, or modified? How is one to know which other calculators in that group are also wrong?

Additionally, there are many varying opinions on sizing/technique/troubleshooting, soooo, how is one to know that you are the 'authority'?

"...or searched the forums to see how everyone else is building their stills successfully..."
You're assumption, that I have not searched this forum (and Aussie Stills forum, and Still Dragon Forum, and Still Talk Forums, etc), and/or done enough research is just plain wrong....

Starting from a position of absolute ignorance on the subject of mashing and distilling, I have done enough research, to get pretty far along, with only a few unanswered questions.

Your added comment "This isn't a race..." was simply not needed, in any context.

Why do you need to respond in that manner?

I think you have an excellent opportunity make more friendly and less judgemental assumptions about people who simply trying to get some help with a wide range of available, and sometimes contradictory, opinions.

In the future, regardless your knowledge, please do not feel obligated to respond to my posts...unless you can adopt a more congenial attitude...

Thanks

You don't get a choice in who responds to your post, nor how... We've seen more than enough new members come here acting like they are in a race... Far to eager to make mistake after mistake, so I was merely stating the facts as I see them based on what I was reading and piecing together... Remember, we have no clue how much research you have done, or where, unless you inform us of such... We've had members here that did research for multiple years yet started out making common mistakes... If you take everything personal, or have thin skin, you might have a tough time here... We're not here to coddle, we're here to help you be safe and successful... That being said, I can assure you that what I post here is never drunken ramblings - unlike what a few here have been known to post from time to time... But this isn't about me, it's about getting you to where you need to be, right...??? You're the one with the questions, after all...

As for the calculator, there is at least one recent topic here related to its inaccuracy... That's why we point members to a range of sizing that works in practical application rather than relying on theoretical numbers from a calculator...

Hi elvisbubb,

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... p#p7220961
See previous post, too.

M

I am neither thin-skinned, nor do I or need coddling.

Am unclear as to your reference about "drunken ramblings"...not really sure why you brought that up...

"Remember, we have no clue how much research you have done, or where, unless you inform us of such..."
What, am I supposed to do... provide you with some sort of resume'?
What format, facts, an references do you require?
GET THIS:
The very fact of my original post, which was well-described, well organized, very-adequately illustrated for all the "right-brainers', and clearly evidenced quite a nit of research , should have told even the most casual reader, that I had done a reasonable amount of research and reading on the subject of stills, which meet my personal and clearly stated objectives. I have spent the last 6 months reading about this process, materials, sizing, and attempting to confirm what I think I understand.

The excuses you offer, strike me as rationalization, instead of alternative factual reasoning.
And, please don't tell that you were "...stating just facts..."
I don't buy that.
You were also rendering baseless assumptions about me, for whatever personal reason you had, and you were offering thinly-veiled judgement.

Frankly, your interpretation on who '"races" seems rather subjective, and IMO, a rather weak rationale for assumptions about me.
I really don't care what your past problems on this message board were.
Just don't dump them on me.

Yes, I realize that ["we"] don't know how much research I have done. But for you to jump down my throat with a implied pejorative statement, based on an unequivocally inaccurate assumption of how much (or little) research I have done, is neither warranted, nor invited, or professional in nature.

Again, you have 'misunderstood' my post.
I did not "choose" disallow you from answering my post. I merely relieved you of any obligation, in which you might feel the need to respond. Big difference.

In contrast, forum member, "bearriver", managed to answer all my questions, rather quickly I might add, in a brief concise manner, without dishing out any superfluous, opinionated BS. I really appreciated his ready support. Why can't you do that?
His, and "MichiganCornHuskers" responses are the type I welcome, enjoy, and value.

Yes, I'm the one with the (only 5) questions, none of which concerned the Liebig, did they?
How many did you actually answer? None.
Instead, you chose to avoid my very specific questions, and nit-pik other issues, about which I did not inquire..
What's up with that? I have my suspicions as to why. But, unlike you, without sufficient facts, I will not express them.

Here a few more questions for you, about your attempt to excuse the gross (100%+)errors in the in the HD condenser calculator, with the rationale that it was discussed as being in error, in a few posts.
1. Why is there no disclaimer appended to that page?
2. How is one supposed to know that it is in error???
3. Why would one even suspect it is wrong?
4. Why would one assume that there is a problem with it, when there are still people on this board currently referring newbies to that same inaccurate page for assistance in condenser sizing, as I was?
5. With 30,000+/- forum members, and several hundred thousand posts, your 'expectations', about having to verify published calculators, borders on ludicrous.
5. Are we to assume that all other calculator pages may be incorrect and require a careful ad hoc search for either confirmation or disagreement?
6. Should I request that you personally offer confirmation on each one?
6. Should I also query all forum posts to determine if what YOU say is accurate, as well?

See what I mean?

When you make wrong-minded personal insults toward me, I DO take it personally, and will usually challenge same, whenever warranted.
Unchallenged rudeness is often an invitation for further rudeness...

Maybe...you have forgotten, Uncle Jesse's" 'rules':

The Rules by Which We Live
Postby Uncle Jesse » Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:05 pm
Here is the official list of forum rules. [in part]

1. ...
2."Be polite and courteous. Remember that nobody is perfect and nobody knows everything. We've all got our strengths and limitations which is why we share information with each other in the first place. Remember that we're all different and nothing is going to change that fact."
3. ...

Perhaps, instead of me, it is you, who is "thin skinned".
In any event, I have low regard for inappropriate message board 'pot-shots".
I'm on several other distilling forums, and you seem to be the only one, whom I've encountered, doing so...

This is the second time, in as many months, you have made rude assumptions about my posts, especially, by ignoring or failing to grasp an idea.
The first time I let it slide, but not again...
Keep that in mind if you decide to respond to any further inquiries, which I may, in the future, tender to this forum.
I expect, if you decide to respond, that you to do so, as if we were 'face-to-face', in a cordial and professional manner.

Hi elvisbubba,

I can imagine rad slapping his thigh in glee as he reads your response. You have given him exactly what he wanted. I should have mentioned in my description of the rad-trap that it is usually set on a newbie before his 10th post.

The best response to a rad-trap is silence.

M

Hi elvis,

You did fine. It's true Rad's post had a bit of zing to it, and maybe didn't feel fair from your position. I felt the same on one of my first posts... If I may offer some unsolicited advice (sorry!) just don't respond to the bit that feels unfair, but listen to the advice he's giving. Rad's post on one of my just learning posts felt unfair at the time, and it did make a mistaken assumption, but it also had good advice. I ended up following it, and looking back a year, I'm glad I did. He did steer me in the right direction and save me time which might have otherwise been wasted.

Best of luck to you!

JOhni3 and M,

Thanks.

Beside "zing, it seemed to have some undesirable congeners, including bit of methanol

Based on my previous, eclectic research over the past several months, I'm quite satisfied that my still design will suit my needs to a tee, and it will enable me to experiment with minor or incremental variations of it to produce exactly what I want, and what I am used to consuming -- operating under a wide range of environmental ambience and ancillary resources. I seriously doubt if there will be advancement mods which will drive increase/decease of power, diameter, height, takeoff rate, HETP, vapor speed, purity, flavor, etc., beyond that design. Kinda like building my first, and only, Harley from scratch. My design, while, a bit over-built, will allow for plenty of 'wiggle' room to accommodate plenty of variables, and will enable experimentation with a wide range of product. None of this was dependent on rads advice.

Prior to retirement to sunny Florida, I was a 25 year F500 capital project manager, who was very fortunate enough to have an experienced widely-varied, deeply talented team of experts in most 'hard' and 'soft' engineering disciplines. They were all very capable in their respective fields. Additionally, and perhaps most importantly, they were also capable of close teamwork, and experienced in explicit, non-passive aggressive communication. Many of them had big egos, but were not insecure. Made my job wonderfully rewarding...

While, I acknowledge that rad may be an expert in distillation, he would have surely been run off of the first project, since we just did not tolerate self-important, fault-finding, sarcastically judgemental persons to jeopardize our team's successes...


Nova Scotia! What a most excellent place! I spent a full month there a few years back, with a tall willowy woman from Sidney, whom I met online. We circumnavigated much of the lower province together, and put about 1400K on the speedo.

Go Lunenburg!

John

1800 EST..time for a beverage...

Must have missed your welcome post but after reading this I feel I know you. You have a great command of communication. I welcome all you bring to the forum. Looking forward to your comments and questions once you are up and running. I hope to be as sharp as you are now. I'm 10 years your junior and got to use these so I'm not misunderstood.

AC

elvisbubba wrote:1. Why is there no disclaimer appended to that page?

Because the content is copyrighted by Tony Akland so we can't edit the actual content...

That's all you get because I don't answer questions upon demand... Are you here to tell us how this site should be run or are you here to learn about home distillation for personal consumption...??? Back on topic...!!!

Have been here, reading for six months, in order to to learn about distillation.
As to the other, I don't confuse site management with, personnel responsibility.
Originally, I was very "on topic", for my level of understanding, before you 'responded' in the manner, in which you did.
I've seen some of your other posts, which were quite knowledgeable, when they didn't piss people off...
Staying on topic is not predicated on belittling anyone, especially newbies.
You were wrong, but do not seem to be big enough to admit it, or apologize.

Noted.