Storing & Sealing??

TryMe · Post by **TryMe** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:20 pm

Since the topic I asked this in was locked before I got much of an answer I will ask in a new topic.

Question--I know plastic as a rule is taboo but I also know a lot of ppl store their likker in mason jars...The lids on the mason jars I have seen have a thin orange colored rubber seal and what looks to be a thin coat of plastic on the inside..Is this acceptable for storage of say 80% abv or is there some other way to seal mason jars for storage?What other methods are used aside from oak barrels...Maybe wine bottles with corks?Thx.

mikeac · Post by **mikeac** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:26 pm

I tried macerating in those jars, but it didn't go well, I didn't like the rubber, and they don't actually seal without heat treatment, I use wine bottles and cork em. But I make wine too, so have a corker...

Post by **Dnderhead** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:30 pm

wine bottles sounds good, I myself use Conney kegs ,take out what i want
in whisky bottles some times put wax paper under lid

mikeac · Post by **mikeac** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:33 pm

I've used tin foil under lids with fairly good results too..Wax paper sounds better though...

GingerBreadMan · Post by **GingerBreadMan** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:55 pm

some in wine bottles, some in gallon glass jugs. Picked them up at the wine store. Some stuff I store at 65% ABV, most of it at 35-40% - ready to drink, or to give away.

The screw on tops are made of kryptonite which is impervious to alcohol vapors, not like that plastic PTFE stuff.

zymos · Post by **zymos** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:16 pm

The white stuff under the lid is more like enamel-as long as it doesn't get scratched and expose the metal underneath, I'd bet that part is pretty much impervious.

I've also wondered about the rubber seal though, especially since people here seem to routinely suggest against using rubber stoppers.What is the consensus on the rubber seal here?

Pretty much any screw top for wine bottles or jugs is going to be made of plastic and also lined with soft plastic to help it seal.

Does aluminum dissolve in high proof EtOH?

wineo · Post by **wineo** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:56 pm

I store mine in wine or whiskey bottles mostly,and use corks.I store my bottles in wine boxes standing up so the corks dont stay as wet.I store all my wines on there sides though.I do macerate in 1/2 gallon mason jars with lids,but only for a month or so,then it gets bottled.I dont know about that rubber seal on those lids.Most of my macerations are at 40% so I dont worry about it too much.If it was higher proof,I dont think I would want it in contact with that seal.I also have some gallon jugs,and quite a few 1/2 gallon crown royal bottles,but store 80 proof stuff in them.Anything over 40% doesnt touch any plastic or rubber at my house.

Pikluk · Post by **Pikluk** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:09 pm

at my local brew chop i got a few jugs.
only lid they have is

description i found somewhere on the net

"Reusable 38mm plastic screw caps with hermetically sealed inner liner to fit OUR one gallon and one-half gallon jugs. Sturdy quality for long lasting usability and great airtight seal. Black in color with ridges for easy on and off. May NOT fit other brands of glass containers. "

you can read poly-seal in the inside of the cap.

any thought?

i did get corks that fits them tho, but since the jugs are treaded the glass is not that thick im afraid to push to cork in there.
for short therm i don't mind but in the future id like to age some stuff.

GingerBreadMan · Post by **GingerBreadMan** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:52 pm

Pikluk wrote:you can read poly-seal in the inside of the cap.

any thought?

Well, it's not kryptonite, but I believe Poly-Seal is made of LDPE (Low-density polyethylene), according to this site

http://www.sks-science.com/cap_liner.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

There are no published papers prooving this is 100% safe with alcohol. Use with extreme caution. This material is only rated as excellent to chemical resistance to ethyl alcohol at 20C (room temperature) according to this site -

http://simport.sogetel.net/en/charts.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

and

http://www.texloc.com/closet/cl_chemica ... chart.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

This site only says resistant to ethyl alcohol

http://www.mitsuchem.com/chemicalresistancedata.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

There are no published studies saying that using this cap on a glass bottle is safe anytime or anywhere.

I would not recommend using this type of cap on a glass bottle. Not even if the bottle is sitting upright and the alcohol is not touching the poly seal. There are vapors in this bottle. The alcohol vapors could react with the so called 'resistant' poly seal cap.

Remember I'm not an expert, I'm just some guy on the Internet that googled "LDPE chemical resistance alcohol"

punkin · Post by **punkin** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:39 pm

I just often use the 4.5 l clip down glass lidded jars (similar to your mason jars i think) with a grolsh type glass lid, but throw away the rubber ring.

Got enough alch to not worry too much about evaporation over a few weeks or a couplea months...

TryMe · Post by **TryMe** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:02 am

Hmmm...Perhaps I will pick up some bottles with corks or some kryptonite lids....Would the mason jar lids be effected on lower ABV with say 40% to 50%??

Pikluk · Post by **Pikluk** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:21 pm

thank you very much GBM.
great stuff, guess its corks from now on.
i might try to remove the "poly-seal" part an put a piece of aluminum foil.

CoopsOz · Post by **CoopsOz** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:42 pm

GingerBreadMan wrote:Remember I'm not an expert, I'm just some guy on the Internet that googled "LDPE chemical resistance alcohol"

Very amusing GBM

GingerBreadMan · Post by **GingerBreadMan** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:55 pm

I guess if your not a wine maker and don't already have a corker or you don't have access to kryptonite lids for sealing, another alternative is to use emptied store bought liquor bottles - the glass ones with the metal screw caps.

Surely you either have these already or know some friends that have some.

TryMe · Post by **TryMe** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:55 pm

GingerBreadMan wrote:I guess if your not a wine maker and don't already have a corker or you don't have access to kryptonite lids for sealing, another alternative is to use emptied store bought liquor bottles - the glass ones with the metal screw caps.

Surely you either have these already or know some friends that have some.

I think most of the store bought liquor bottles with the metal caps you are talking about have a plastic type seal inside the cap..Not 100% so don't quote me on that..I will have to go look.

wineo · Post by **wineo** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:05 pm

You can get metal lids for those gallon jugs.They have a cardboard type insert for a seal.

Post by **Dnderhead** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:07 pm

I thank it would be pretty hard to get away from plastic 100%
but minimize as much as possible especially in high prof

wineo · Post by **wineo** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:42 pm

I dont keep too much high proof around,except for when its airing out,and it has a coffee filter for a lid.High proof can degrade some plastics,and its a fire hazard.I usually cut it to drinking strength as soon as its ready,and bottle it.{with a #9 cork}

new_moonshiner · Post by **new_moonshiner** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:24 pm

what about some input on this cap please. wonder if there would be a problem using them with 50 abv? looks like they were made for it but not so sure now..
http://www.brewhaus.com/Cap_Black_28mm_ ... 002000.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Post by **Dnderhead** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:22 pm

As i said be for it is pretty hard to stay away from plastic 100%
of the time just stay from them as much as possible and do not use at all above 50%
and wineo I thank you will fiend that those mettle caps have paper
seals that is plastic coated

new_moonshiner · Post by **new_moonshiner** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:28 pm

I know what youre saying Dunderhead..but i also look at like this on the caps and lids..if you stored the bottles upside down and the lids were totally submersed in the product I would be a little more concerned ..those caps I mentioned in that post were from brewhaus so I would take it they should be ok liquor bottle caps.. hense liquor goes in a liquor bottle I would like to think there ok.. but again Im only going on instinct .

wineo · Post by **wineo** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:55 pm

Your right about the metal caps,but I use em.I dont store high proof in them.It seems like theres plastic everywhere.Its hard to get away from it.

Post by **Dnderhead** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:22 pm

Most of the time i just use used liquor bottles for 50% capes and all ,but caps do not hold up to good I use Conney kegs for high stuff

wineo · Post by **wineo** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:13 pm

I have 2 of them also.I used to make alot of beer,and used those corneys with C02 to carbonate,and dispence my beer.

stillsmokin · Post by **stillsmokin** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:37 am

Anybody here know any long-time bartenders? They should know from reusing those pouring spigots they pop onto those bottles. I figure some sort of soft, black plastic is used to seal them. If they're known to last forever, I could be convinced they're pretty safe.(upright especially)

Already bought a lot of corks, misc. sizes from Sciplus.com, I'll stick to that.

Do corkers come cheap? I'll have to look into it.

zymos · Post by **zymos** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:04 am

stillsmokin wrote:Anybody here know any long-time bartenders? They should know from reusing those pouring spigots they pop onto those bottles. I figure some sort of soft, black plastic is used to seal them. If they're known to last forever, I could be convinced they're pretty safe.(upright especially)

.

Sorry, but that line of reasoning isn't going to fly around here.
I have 5 gal poly containers that have held 190 proof for a year at a time, with no evidence of damage to the plastic.
Can I definitely say without a doubt that no plastic is being dissolved into the alcohol?
No- I can't...

big worm · Post by **big worm** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:06 pm

wonders what 190 soaked in a mcdonalds green pickle bucket would taste like

zymos · Post by **zymos** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:51 am

Dilute it a bit, add some sugar, and voila- Pickle Liqueur!!

punkin · Post by **punkin** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:54 am

I was thinking of a storage solution that'd be cheap (for me at least) the other day. Does any one have any thoughts on storing quantities of finnished liqour in copper pipe?

I've got a fair bit of large diameter copper, and was thinking a couple of meters of 4" copper with a ball valve soldered into one of the end caps would hold a fair bit, and save me looking for kegs all the time.

I just don't know what the copper would do to the spirit over time?

Any thoughts?

wineo · Post by **wineo** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:20 am

I think the copper would react to the distillate.Stainless steel would be ideal but then you would have to get more kegs.Ive been bottling mine up and corking it but Im getting quite the collection.Ive got wine running out my ears also and are running out of room to store it.I guess I could distill some of the wines,but I hate to because there all good.

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