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kiln dried oak

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:00 am
by jb-texshine
Is there a method for making kiln dried oak usable for ageing?
I was recently given quite a bit of oak but its kilned. So far ive soaked it in water over nite and allowed it to dry completely 6 times...
Anyone got a successful method?

Re: kiln dried oak

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:07 am
by seamusm53
Kiln dried may be too dry for BBQ but moisture content has little to do with ageing liquor. Especially when we dry it even more in our ovens or under the heat of flames. Use it freely.

Re: kiln dried oak

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:21 am
by jb-texshine
I was more concerned with any chemicals that it may have been treated with for the kilning process.

Re: kiln dried oak

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:18 am
by seamusm53
Kiln drying is done to stabilize the wood so that expansion and shrinkage are less of a problem after use in construction - primarily furniture making. Kiln dried wood is not typically pressure treated (with chemicals) for use outdoors.

Chemicals are applied for pressure treatment but not kiln drying though I guess it is possible to find wood to which both processes have been applied. I've never heard of such. Chemically treated wood is typically labelled as such and often the coloring is obvious (green).

Kiln dried wood is what we do to prep wood for ageing but just not to the point of toasting/charring the wood.

If uncolored and unlabeled you should be okay.

Re: kiln dried oak

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:58 pm
by jb-texshine
Its not pressure treated so im good there. Gonna toast and char it and see how it goes. Thanks
Jbt

Re: kiln dried oak

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:29 pm
by bitter
so long as its white oak should work ok the soaking will remove some the tannins.

B

Re: kiln dried oak

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:29 pm
by corene1
A long while ago I read about a technique of drying that involved chemical immersion of the wood to increase drying time with out cracking. I have looked for the article but have not found it . This is as close as I could come.https://www.scribd.com/document/2336506 ... -Seasoning" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow It is worth a read but I am thinking that most kiln dried white oak you will come across are not treated, but I couldn't say for certain.

Re: kiln dried oak

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:26 pm
by jb-texshine
Thanks everybody. Gonna toast it a bit later and char tomorrow. Then rinse and use.
Jb

Re: kiln dried oak

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:38 pm
by Truckinbutch
We always sprayed the grade lumber with a Clorox solution as we were sticking it . Kept bacteria and mineral staining from lowering the grade when we took it to the broker/grader .

Re: kiln dried oak

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:46 pm
by WIski
Kiln drying will not remove any of the tannins. Drying uncovered in the elements for 2 years will remove some of the tannins. I would submerge soak your wood for several days drain and repeat several times before using it to age liquor. YMMV :egeek:

Re: kiln dried oak

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:12 am
by NattyBoh
Just got a piece of kiln dried white oak, quarter sawn and all heartwood (untreated). Can I still leave it outside for several months to air dry and soften tannins or has the kiln drying process rendered the piece unusable?

Re: kiln dried oak

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:47 am
by seamusm53
Not at all. Should work just fine. Toast and char as you normally would and use it as is. Don't think further air drying will make a lot of difference over the kiln process already.

Re: kiln dried oak

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:35 am
by SaltyStaves
Air drying is not seasoning. Seasoning involves microbial breakdown of some of the nastier bitter elements in the wood.
You will see it as a mold buildup that comes naturally with cycles of wetting and drying the wood in the open. You absolutely can take your kiln dried and leave it out for a year or more. Then leave it out, but covered for 3-4 months to dry out.

These two are cut from the same plank. Have a guess which piece makes horrible likker...
QA Oak.jpg

Re: kiln dried oak

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:18 pm
by NattyBoh
Thanks for the quick responses. I'll probably cut into smaller pieces and stack outside for the next few months.

Re: kiln dried oak

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:55 pm
by MichiganCornhusker
SaltyStaves wrote:Have a guess which piece makes horrible likker...
Alright, alright, now I gotta jump in here.
Ever since day one I've been using straight up kiln dried american white oak scraps from shop projects.
My whiskey is far from horrible, it is quite tasty and very comparable to many other purchased whiskeys that I enjoy.
It fact, it compares quite favorably, if not better in some cases, to some whiskey that I've aged in a new 5 gallon charred white oak barrel.

I have not put a collection of oak outside for any amount of time to season, so I cannot directly compare to anything other than my barrel.
But the thing is, I don't feel any need to go through any extra effort to find or create seasoned wood.

I'm not saying that weather seasoning might not make a fine spirit, but I can tell you that toasted and charred kiln dried oak can work just fine as-is.

Re: kiln dried oak

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:06 pm
by NattyBoh
Thanks. I'll use some now and put the rest outside.

Re: kiln dried oak

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:27 pm
by SaltyStaves
MichiganCornhusker wrote:
SaltyStaves wrote:Have a guess which piece makes horrible likker...
Alright, alright, now I gotta jump in here.
Are you in the US? Here in NZ, rough sawn American oak is like an exotic timber. Its all kiln dried, but perhaps there are degrees of treatment between domestic and export that could account for why mine is so objectionable?

Here is how I qualify mine. A freshly cut and shaved piece of raw/kiln dried rubbed under the nose, will give a prickly sensation and slightly irritate the nose and eyes.
Shavings steeped in boiled water for 10 minutes will also be harsh on the back of the throat.

I'd be interested to see what other people experience.

Re: kiln dried oak

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:39 pm
by WIski
I have seasoned my own oak both the traditional way outdoors and by an unconventional way of submerged soaking and outdoor drying cycles. The soaking and drying was done to try and expedite the bitter tannin removal normally taking up to 2 years outside on its own. In both cases there is a large amount of very dark staining given off from the wood. It has a very bitter acrid taste and smell. Along with the break down of the wood mentioned above I am sure the removal of these substances is the reasoning behind the seasoning. Kiln drying only removes the moisture from the wood. I'm guessing if the commercial guys could get away with using kiln dried wood they would because it would save them time and money. As far as I know they only use outdoor air dried seasoned wood. That in itself tells me to shy away from kiln dried. YMMV :eugeek:

Re: kiln dried oak

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:33 pm
by DAD300
I've been searching for barrels and reading the cooperage's websites. Those that talk about their wood aging, say six months to a year for whiskey barrels and longer for wine barrels. Some with pic's show raw planks cut for making staves set outside to "dry."

I don't think dry is the issue. I think they age the planks to avoid cracking. Those that crack or warp in six months are scrapped. Those that don't get finished into staves.

They finish cut the staves to pattern and steam them to bend them into barrels.

Where's the resident cooper?

I have white oak on the farm and make my own "sticks" for aging. I leave the tree lay on the ground for six months+. Then cut it into 18" logs and use a table saw to make sticks that will fit into a 2" keg opening. Toast in a grill!

If it's all you can get, I would use kiln dried oak. But I would be looking for a source for a log. It wouldn't take a very big piece of wood to last a lifetime for a hobbyist.

Re: kiln dried oak

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:58 am
by jonnys_spirit
Lots of folks buy the 1/2 barrel jack daniels planters at the home depot or similar... I got one and broke it up for $30... Cut staves down to finger size and toast in the oven according to that chart floating around here... I've got a bunch stacked outside that have been seasoning for a year.

I generally toast 4-5hr @ 400*F and they are toasted all the way through. Then hit some with a blow torch for the char.

I make wine too and use these for bulk ageing my wines. The oak spirals cost $10-20 for two!!

Cheers and good luck :)
j

Re: kiln dried oak

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:48 pm
by Twisted Brick
jonnys_spirit wrote:Lots of folks buy the 1/2 barrel jack daniels planters at the home depot or similar... I got one and broke it up for $30... Cut staves down to finger size and toast in the oven according to that chart floating around here... I've got a bunch stacked outside that have been seasoning for a year.

I generally toast 4-5hr @ 400*F and they are toasted all the way through. Then hit some with a blow torch for the char.

I make wine too and use these for bulk ageing my wines. The oak spirals cost $10-20 for two!!

Cheers and good luck :)
j
Hy Jonny,

Any recommendations on re-toasting staves? Mine came from Napa Valley wine barrels, (supposedly cabernet) and I'm not sure how they were toasted originally. I think I'm just gonna follow the chart for time/temp, but any advice gleaned from experience would be appreciated.

Brick