Thoughts on All Grain, No malted grain, only enzymes

[Boda Getta]

I have had good luck with an all grain Bourbon w/ 70% cracked corn, 16 % malted wheat and 14% malted barley. I don't have a HB store locally plus the added expense of malted grain I'm wondering if any of you have experimented using only raw grains with only enzymes. I have SEBStar HTI and SEBAmyl-GL. What effect will cutting all the malt out of the grain bill have on the taste of the final product.
What do you think?

BG

[MichiganCornhusker]

Lots of discussion here:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=53796

[bitter]

Some malted definitely improves the taste. Why not make 2 batches. Some without malt and the other with 1/2 malt and taste the difference.

You could malt your own grain you get from the feed store.

B

[speedfreaksteve]

Don't those specific enyzmes just use alpha amylase and not actual beta amylase which you would also need to fully convert the starches to sugars? I would use both from what I know, but would like to hear what others have to say on this.

A cheap alternative for you could be to buy a 50# bag of whole wheat and malt it yourself. That's what I do.

[bentstick]

I have had good luck with an all grain Bourbon w/ 70% cracked corn, 16 % malted wheat and 14% malted barley. I don't have a HB store locally plus the added expense of malted grain I'm wondering if any of you have experimented using only raw grains with only enzymes. I have SEBStar HTI and SEBAmyl-GL. What effect will cutting all the malt out of the grain bill have on the taste of the final product.
What do you think?

BG

Done it both ways,IMO malts are needed for taste,kind of bland without!

[MichiganCornhusker]

Malting your own grains gives you lots of opportunities for drying and kilning and/or toasting and roasting.
I really like a toasted wheat malt whiskey.

[der wo]

Don't those specific enyzmes just use alpha amylase and not actual beta amylase which you would also need to fully convert the starches to sugars? I would use both from what I know, but would like to hear what others have to say on this.

Search for "glucoamylase".

[der wo]

One argument for unmalted grains:
The malting process adds something to the flavor. It's the same something in barley, wheat or rye. Without doubt it is a good something. But because it's the same, spirits will differ more when using unmalted grains. For example a Bourbon with 12% rye in the grain bill will taste less different than the same one with 12% wheat instead, if the rye/wheat is malted.
The most commercial Bourbons have only 8-14% malted barley. Everything else is unmalted. Generally all our recipes here without adding enzymes have too much malt flavor compared to the commercial ones. Nothing wrong with it. But I prefer to have spirits with strong differences.

[BrewinNStilling]

I don't have a HB store locally plus the added expense of malted grain....

I'm curious as to why you don't just malt your own?

"Malting" is, essentially, just "sprouting", and there's countless hippie videos that show a wide variety of sprouting techniques for everything from lentils, to corn, to whatever, and barley can be sproute...er, MALTED, the same way.

I'm kind of surprised to see that so many home distillers seem to fear, or simply avoid, malting their own grains, despite the fact that they take the time to make some pretty complicated equipment to distill the results.

[BrewinNStilling]

Lots of discussion here:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=53796

That thread is two years old...

[greggn]

> I'm curious as to why you don't just malt your own?


Some of us are married. While my wife is quite supportive of the actual distillation process I know, without asking, that she'd draw the line if I built a malting table and began malting 50 pounds of grain each month.

[speedfreaksteve]

Some of us are married. While my wife is quite supportive of the actual distillation process I know, without asking, that she'd draw the line if I built a malting table and began malting 50 pounds of grain each month.

I'm married too. I malt wheat in a small area usually 4-6lbs at a time. I could easily just stack things and make even more but I only need 4-6lbs per mash of malted wheat.

I use around 3 sqare feet for the malting and another 1.5 square feet for my dehydrator, although I'm eventually going to move my dehydrator under my little malting area. I use another 1.5 sq ft for my drying area.

It doesn't need to take a lot of space.

IMG_20170311_150409.jpg

[MichiganCornhusker]

That thread is two years old...

So... You think all that information is obsolete?
Something dramatic happen in the last two years that changes the world of grains and malts?
I've learned from much older threads than that here.

[speedfreaksteve]

That thread is two years old...

So... You think all that information is obsolete?
Something dramatic happen in the last two years that changes the world of grains and malts?
I've learned from much older threads than that here.

Very true! Heck, you can learn a ton just from 8-12 year old threads on here.

[BrewinNStilling]

That thread is two years old...

So...

First, it's kind of hard trying to garner information from a dude that posted a comment on a thread that's 2+ years old....especially if that member is no longer active / gone.

Second, people join forums for the individual interactions with forum members as much as they do for the information in those forums.

Some of us are married.

Fair enough.

50 pounds at a time IS more than a handful.

[MichiganCornhusker]

First, it's kind of hard trying to garner information from a dude that posted a comment on a thread that's 2+ years old....especially if that member is no longer active / gone.

I gotta disagree with you.
If you are suggesting that we should just dismiss all threads that are past a certain born on date, just because the participants might not be available to answer questions in realtime, then I would say you are missing out on the tremendous wealth of knowledge contained on this forum.

I agree that many of us enjoy the ongoing current community of active members, but there are many more dudes who took the time to contribute their know how and experiences here in threads that might not be current.
The fact that they might not be on here chatting it up anymore is irrelevant.

[BrewinNStilling]

If you are suggesting that we should just dismiss all threads that are past a certain born on date...

Not at all.

[HDNB]

First, it's kind of hard trying to garner information from a dude that posted a comment on a thread that's 2+ years old....especially if that member is no longer active / gone.

Second, people join forums for the individual interactions with forum members as much as they do for the information in those forums.

first, i'm still here and stick by everything i wrote in that thread. 10% malt minimum for flavour and the more the merrier right up to Jimbo's 100% malt recipe, it expensive, but it's worth it!

second, i agree. but none the less that thread is good...i still use the recipe i developed while yakking my way through that thread 2 years ago. 15kg corn, 8kg barley, 2kg oats and 5kg 2row finds the happy spot for me.

[BrewinNStilling]

I'm still here and stick by everything i wrote in that thread. 10% malt minimum for flavour and the more the merrier right up to Jimbo's 100% malt recipe, it expensive, but it's worth it!

How do you think a recipe of....
7lb malted corn
2lb malted 2 row
1lb malted rye

....would turn out?

I see that most folks don't bother using malted corn, but I've got it malting as we speak.

[HDNB]

i'm pretty sure you won't like it.

you should send it to me when it's done so i can dispose of it safely for you.

[acfixer69]

I'm still here and stick by everything i wrote in that thread. 10% malt minimum for flavour and the more the merrier right up to Jimbo's 100% malt recipe, it expensive, but it's worth it!

How do you think a recipe of....
7lb malted corn
2lb malted 2 row
1lb malted rye

....would turn out?

I see that most folks don't bother using malted corn, but I've got it malting as we speak.

You probley going to need a dip of water too .
Good for you on malting your own corn, but why malted corn, it loses the corn sweetness with the malting. The corn would not need to be malted to convert with the 3 lb of rye and barley. OP and title is AG no malted only enzymes.
That's why I don't malt corn.

AC

[bilgriss]

I really like a high percentage of malted grains.

Der Wo is right, though. There's a sharper difference between the flavor of unmalted grains, and more similarity between malted grains.

The secret is to experiment, refine what you like about results, and improve on it next time. Do it often enough and you'll end up with some aging stock!