Honey Bear Bourbon

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BrewinBrian44
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

tjsc5f wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 7:35 am
BrewinBrian44 wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 2:55 pm oak barrel stave sticks “Buffalo Trace barrel” with different char and toast treatments.
Did you aquire an entire barrel and break it down yourself? I'm curious what length of stave stick you used for the quarts, and if/how you cleaned it up prior to toast and char.
One of my buddies owns a brewery and ages imperial stout beer in single use bourbon barrels straight from the distilleries in Kentucky. This one sat out back a little too long after use and dried out, so I essentially got it for free. When I came to pick up the barrel the thing completely fell apart from just moving it. I took some individual staves that were about 1 inch wide and cleaned off all the old char and patina from the outside of the barrel with a disc sander, then cut them into 4” lengths with a table saw. I’ve got so much wood from this barrel, I’ll never run out.

After cutting them to size, I did all sorts of different toast and charring treatments and organized them in some big zip lock bags with labels. I’m looking forward to using my single use pieces in some other products that want a milder oak flavor, like the apple brandy I’m going to run tomorrow.

The planter barrels from Home Depot are also a great option that won’t break the bank and will provide some very well seasoned oak from the start. This was my original plan until my buddy offered the Buffalo Trace barrel. Cool thing about using these barrels for bourbon is you still get the flavor of “new oak” because only one side of the stave interacted with the previous spirit. The outside of the barrel is still fresh, seasoned oak.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by NorthWoodsAb »

BrewinBrian44 wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:23 am
tjsc5f wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 7:35 am
BrewinBrian44 wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 2:55 pm oak barrel stave sticks “Buffalo Trace barrel” with different char and toast treatments.
Did you aquire an entire barrel and break it down yourself? I'm curious what length of stave stick you used for the quarts, and if/how you cleaned it up prior to toast and char.
.... This one sat out back a little too long after use and dried out, so I essentially got it for free. When I came to pick up the barrel the thing completely fell apart from just moving it. I took some individual staves that were about 1 inch wide and cleaned off all the old char and patina from the outside of the barrel with a disc sander, then cut them into 4” lengths with a table saw. I’ve got so much wood from this barrel, I’ll never run out.
Brian good score on that barrel.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

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jonnys_spirit wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 7:59 am

How much you use depends on how you want it to turn out. 4x fingers/gallon or half that is a good safe start :)
Just remember you can always add sticks if you need later on but not as easy to correct over oak. I was using two fingers, about 3/4" X 3/4" X 4.5" , both toasted and one charred in 1/2 gal jars and found it a bit much. Fortunately I had kept some white dog so I diluted a bit with that to bring it back to balance. Last batch was 1 finger 3/4" X 3/4" X 3.5 and a second about half that length and after 9 months it is coming long fine.

Jonny - didn't mean this directed to you. Just quoted you as it related.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

NorthWoodsAb wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:16 pm
BrewinBrian44 wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:23 am
tjsc5f wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 7:35 am
BrewinBrian44 wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 2:55 pm oak barrel stave sticks “Buffalo Trace barrel” with different char and toast treatments.
Did you aquire an entire barrel and break it down yourself? I'm curious what length of stave stick you used for the quarts, and if/how you cleaned it up prior to toast and char.
.... This one sat out back a little too long after use and dried out, so I essentially got it for free. When I came to pick up the barrel the thing completely fell apart from just moving it. I took some individual staves that were about 1 inch wide and cleaned off all the old char and patina from the outside of the barrel with a disc sander, then cut them into 4” lengths with a table saw. I’ve got so much wood from this barrel, I’ll never run out.
Brian good score on that barrel.
Thanks man, yeah I definitely lucked out. It was actually nice the barrel dried out. I didn’t have to deal with a stinky mess of stale beer.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

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subbrew wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:05 pm
jonnys_spirit wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 7:59 am

How much you use depends on how you want it to turn out. 4x fingers/gallon or half that is a good safe start :)
Just remember you can always add sticks if you need later on but not as easy to correct over oak. I was using two fingers, about 3/4" X 3/4" X 4.5" , both toasted and one charred in 1/2 gal jars and found it a bit much. Fortunately I had kept some white dog so I diluted a bit with that to bring it back to balance. Last batch was 1 finger 3/4" X 3/4" X 3.5 and a second about half that length and after 9 months it is coming long fine.

Jonny - didn't mean this directed to you. Just quoted you as it related.
Sound advice. Less oak for longer seems to be the preferred method. The goal is to be able to leave the oak in there the whole aging period before bottling.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by TwoSheds »

FWIW, these are the measurements I use making aging sticks out of staves. Gets in the ballpark of what others have cited for sq/in per gallon.

Per half gallon, one stick of:
Staves around 2” wide, cut 5” lengths (32 sq in)
Around 3”, cut 3.5” length (32 sq in)
Around 4”, cut 2.5” length (31 sq in)

I tend to sand/scrape the old char off. Haven't played with toasting yet but that will be next.

So far (8-10 months in) over oaking doesn't seem like an issue.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by Dougmatt »

Ordered a bunch of grains to do more of this today. To celebrate, I dipped into my existing HBB today for a taste. Pretty good at the ~3 month point (badmo M3 barrel). Needs more time, but already has a nice flavor profile and great nose.

Also pulled out some of the sugar head I made on the spent grains using corn sugar. Really nice flavor. Drank it white, and neat and made a nice sweet sipper. Pretty impressed. Planning to do a sugar head next time as well!

Thanks again for the recipe!
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by Evil_Dark »

Here my 5 liters bad boy filled with HBB !
I test it regularily, after a couples weeks it already have a sligh coloration and oak taste.

I saw a guy that sampled it every month and after 4 months found that it was good. All other comments about that barrel size is best ageing is aroung 4 to 6 months, so I'll try to be patient :)

Regards,
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

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Hi all HBB’rs I need some help. I’ve done enough HBB now to fill a small 5G barrel and pretty happy with the results. I just started down the path of a new barrel fill and grabbed a bag of deer corn from Walmart called top score as I couldn’t get out to the feed store. I milled it myself. Then put together 3 6 gallon batches of HBB, and just finished my strips followed by spirit run using the standard recipe (no oats).

Here’s the quandary. The entire batch tastes like burnt rubber. I run an external element stainless boiler with a little copper mesh in the vapor path. I never noticed any scorch but wondering if it’s that, or bad corn ( which would suck because I am doing more hbb and using it in my ujssm.

Any ideas?
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

Burnt rubber is a very distinct smell. Anything “burnt” could come from a scorch. Does it look like you have anything burnt to the bottom of your kettle? Do you run a cleared wash? If it’s a little cloudy, you need to run right after you dump the wash in the kettle to prevent any of the solids settling on a heating element, or in your case the bottom of the kettle.

Some of that funky smell could come from sulfur in the wash. Do you have any copper in the boiler and vapor path?

Sulfury runs usually smell like a rotten egg / cooked vegetable / meat like aroma. I haven’t noticed burnt rubber before.

Only time I ever encountered burnt rubber was many years back from an infected beer I made. I forgot to sanitize the carboy and an infection took hold that produces a lot of phenols. Burnt rubber and band-aid are the best descriptors of the smell and flavor. I dumped it.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

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And bandaid will not age out. I got the unfortunate opportunity to sample a tequila that had a bandaid aroma and flavor. That shit wasn't fit for a hobo.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

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Deplorable wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 5:08 pm And bandaid will not age out.
I can’t pass this one up. Last year my sister gave us a whiskey advent calendar from the UK, which was probably at least 50% scotch varieties. The vast majority tasted like bandaids to both me and my wife. I dumped them into a whiskey faints jar and eventually reran them, making something that still passes for Scotch but lost a lot of that bandaid flavor.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by Dougmatt »

BrewinBrian44 wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:54 pm Does it look like you have anything burnt to the bottom of your kettle?

Do you run a cleared wash? If it’s a little cloudy, you need to run right after you dump the wash in the kettle to prevent any of the solids settling on a heating element, or in your case the bottom of the kettle.

Some of that funky smell could come from sulfur in the wash. Do you have any copper in the boiler and vapor path?

Sulfury runs usually smell like a rotten egg / cooked vegetable / meat like aroma. I haven’t noticed burnt rubber before.

Only time I ever encountered burnt rubber was many years back from an infected beer I made. I forgot to sanitize the carboy and an infection took hold that produces a lot of phenols. Burnt rubber and band-aid are the best descriptors of the smell and flavor. I dumped it.
Thank you for all the ideas.

To respond:
I did not notice anything on the bottom of the pot, but there is some discoloration so it’s possible. I just don’t know when that happened.

I did not clear the wash, but was heating it the moment it went in and left the pot open to stir until it heated up some.

I don’t “think” it’s sulfur. I grew up in Florida and on sulfur water so believe I know that smell and taste, this isn’t that to me. My only copper is some wire mesh in my slobber box, but it’s the same thing I used for my previous HBB runs which were good.

It’s possible that it was infected, but I didn’t notice on the strip…. It’s funny it’s not a bad nose, but the flavor is astringent and best I can come up with is burnt rubber.

Letting it sit again overnight (3rd night airing) for now. Will check it again in the morning. Proof is very high too. Might try to water down and rerun the hearts but thinking this may be a lost cause.

Hoping it’s not infected corn as I have more of this coming ready.

Thanks again.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

Dougmatt wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 7:49 pm
BrewinBrian44 wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:54 pm Does it look like you have anything burnt to the bottom of your kettle?

Do you run a cleared wash? If it’s a little cloudy, you need to run right after you dump the wash in the kettle to prevent any of the solids settling on a heating element, or in your case the bottom of the kettle.

Some of that funky smell could come from sulfur in the wash. Do you have any copper in the boiler and vapor path?

Sulfury runs usually smell like a rotten egg / cooked vegetable / meat like aroma. I haven’t noticed burnt rubber before.

Only time I ever encountered burnt rubber was many years back from an infected beer I made. I forgot to sanitize the carboy and an infection took hold that produces a lot of phenols. Burnt rubber and band-aid are the best descriptors of the smell and flavor. I dumped it.
Thank you for all the ideas.

To respond:
I did not notice anything on the bottom of the pot, but there is some discoloration so it’s possible. I just don’t know when that happened.

I did not clear the wash, but was heating it the moment it went in and left the pot open to stir until it heated up some.

I don’t “think” it’s sulfur. I grew up in Florida and on sulfur water so believe I know that smell and taste, this isn’t that to me. My only copper is some wire mesh in my slobber box, but it’s the same thing I used for my previous HBB runs which were good.

It’s possible that it was infected, but I didn’t notice on the strip…. It’s funny it’s not a bad nose, but the flavor is astringent and best I can come up with is burnt rubber.

Letting it sit again overnight (3rd night airing) for now. Will check it again in the morning. Proof is very high too. Might try to water down and rerun the hearts but thinking this may be a lost cause.

Hoping it’s not infected corn as I have more of this coming ready.

Thanks again.
My guess is a scorch if you see some burned residue in the boiler floor. Usually an infected wash presents itself well when you distill it. Extra acids and esters from something like a lacto infection make for a tasty drop. You’d know if you had an infection though because it’s usually very visible on top of the wash. You can try distilling it again and see what happens, but scorch will never leave the spirit if that’s indeed what happened.

Couple tips: If you don’t want to wait for your wash to clear, it’s a personal preference. For whiskey, it’s less of an issue, but some here make it clear it’s a necessary step. Me personally, I’ve only had one case where running a cloudy wash gave me some extra funk in the distillate. Main thing with a murky wash is to make sure there’s no chunky solids in there. I usually let mine clear a bit before running. Adds some time to the process, but it’s a little extra insurance you’ll get the best product in the end.

Also, in the future I’d use more copper in the direct vapor path. Putting wads of copper mesh or scrubbies in your tubing is best because all the vapor heading to your condenser will make contact with it. Also, don’t forget to put some copper in your boiler, it’s also important. Myself, I have a riser coming off my boiler that I stuff about 18” of copper mesh inside. Probably more than I need, but can’t hurt. I also make balls of copper by wadding up the same mesh and tossing it in the boiler. You can perpetually keep the copper from corroding badly by throwing the really dirty stuff in your boiler. The acidic backset makes it look like new again.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by squigglefunk »

I recently ran the same wash through an all copper path the first night then used an all stainless path the second night with only one roll of copper thrown in the path and the second run had some awful stank in the tails that was not there at all in the wash or the first night run. I've never had a stank like that before! So yeah, more than one roll of copper mesh next time if I use that stainless steel riser/condenser again. there might have been other variables but like BrewinBrian44 said, it can't hurt to have more!
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

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Thanks. Will throw some copper in the boiler and stuff some more in the slobber box. My still setup is challenging for adding copper as the riser, arm and all pathways are very small. Planning on doing a build when I have some time.

Could be scorch…. Not ruling it out, but would have thought I would have caught it when it happened. Life is a learning journey, but wish I could be clear on the root cause of this as I’ve done the same thing 30 times, but this time got a different result. Doesn’t mean I wasn’t risking this the 29 times before of course :oops: just looking for the right process change AND hoping I don’t have 150# of bad corn.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by squigglefunk »

i really doubt it's "bad corn" ? but hey I can't see the corn
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by TwoSheds »

FWIW, I remember (I think in one of the UJSSM threads) talk about some feed corns having preservatives in them. Just another thought, and hopefully not the case.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

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TwoSheds wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 9:29 am FWIW, I remember (I think in one of the UJSSM threads) talk about some feed corns having preservatives in them. Just another thought, and hopefully not the case.
If the corn had preservatives in it, he likely would have had a ferment problem. Doesn’t seem like that was the case.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

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Dougmatt wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 6:34 am
Could be scorch…. Not ruling it out, but would have thought I would have caught it when it happened. Life is a learning journey, but wish I could be clear on the root cause of this
Update…. Let it air 2 more days, went back to it. Flavor faded to the background and in many jars is hard to detect. Got a blend out of it and put it on oak. Tossed all the feints from this run. Will check it out in a few months and see what I think.

Thanks all
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by Deplorable »

Putting another batch of this down tonight as a finale to 2022/first stilling run of the new year. This will go on sticks in glass to top up my 5 gallon barrel I put down in July. Just waiting for the malts to work their magic at this point, then top up the fermenter and let the temps fall overnight and pitch yeast in the morning.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

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Dougmatt wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 7:49 pm
I did not notice anything on the bottom of the pot, but there is some discoloration so it’s possible. I just don’t know when that happened.
It's possible your yeast are experiencing autolysis, which occurs when yeast die and release their insides into the wort. It can also occur when yeast are stressed, (under-pitched, work at a high temp out of their range, or experience sharp temp swings during fermentation) or work alongside a bacterial infection. Taste perceptions being different, some describe off-flavors from autolysis as meaty, some as burnt rubber.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

Tonight my wife and I decided it was a breakfast for dinner kind of night, which means tasty French toast. Of course, we had to bust out the good stuff, Canadian grade A maple syrup. While we were eating dinner, the flavors in the syrup reminded me a lot of the flavors present in my honey bear bourbon. In the past, I read about some people polishing their whiskey with maple syrup and thought I’d give it a try since I’ve got over 3 gallons of barrel strength HBB sitting in a carboy after it spent a little over a year in a 5 gallon Gibbs barrel.

I proofed down enough spirit to fill a 750ml bottle at 42%ABV. I then added 7.5ml of syrup to it and wow, it really amplified the flavors already present in the bourbon and added some more sweetness and body. Totally awesome.

I do feel a bit conflicted doing it though, it’s like cheating. I’ve tampered with something pure! But man, I can’t deny, it’s good. The sweetness might be a touch too high now, so if I try this again, I’ll probably dial it back slightly, but not much. It was definitely a worthwhile and easy experiment.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

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BrewinBrian44 wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 6:07 pm
I do feel a bit conflicted doing it though, it’s like cheating. I’ve tampered with something pure! But man, I can’t deny, it’s good. The sweetness might be a touch too high now, so if I try this again, I’ll probably dial it back slightly, but not much. It was definitely a worthwhile and easy experiment.
maybe just think of it as a maple old fashioned starter in a bottle. Add a dash of bitters to knock back some of the sweetness and there you are. Not cheating, just a nice cocktail in a bottle.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

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Dougmatt wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 7:33 pm
BrewinBrian44 wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 6:07 pm
I do feel a bit conflicted doing it though, it’s like cheating. I’ve tampered with something pure! But man, I can’t deny, it’s good. The sweetness might be a touch too high now, so if I try this again, I’ll probably dial it back slightly, but not much. It was definitely a worthwhile and easy experiment.
maybe just think of it as a maple old fashioned starter in a bottle. Add a dash of bitters to knock back some of the sweetness and there you are. Not cheating, just a nice cocktail in a bottle.
It’s definitely not “that” sweet haha. Just a touch too much for me.

One of my buddies came over and thinks it’s great at the current sweetness, so maybe I’m onto something. It reminds me of the sweetness level of Angel’s Envy Rye.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by TwoSheds »

What you've got is a good base for experimentation! Get another bottle at the same proof and try blending in the glass over a few servings to see what you like. If you like it best half-and-half, make the next one with half the syrup. If another ratio hits it, adjust as appropriate.

That's what I've been doing with my gin and neutrals. My first couple batches were a little strong so I kept neutrals on hand to temper them then adjusted the original recipe.

My first (small) batch of HBB didn't live long enough to see oak but I've got plenty of grains and need to get around to making a larger batch so I can put some up. Can't wait to try some experiments like this one!

Thanks for sharing.

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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by squigglefunk »

BrewinBrian44 wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 6:07 pm I do feel a bit conflicted doing it though, it’s like cheating. I’ve tampered with something pure! But man, I can’t deny, it’s good. The sweetness might be a touch too high now, so if I try this again, I’ll probably dial it back slightly, but not much. It was definitely a worthwhile and easy experiment.
a tiny drop of honey can work wonders too

way less than "honey" flavored types of store bought .... just a wee bit.

- IMO... is it cheating? Who cares if it tastes good lol.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

squigglefunk wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:31 am
BrewinBrian44 wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 6:07 pm I do feel a bit conflicted doing it though, it’s like cheating. I’ve tampered with something pure! But man, I can’t deny, it’s good. The sweetness might be a touch too high now, so if I try this again, I’ll probably dial it back slightly, but not much. It was definitely a worthwhile and easy experiment.
a tiny drop of honey can work wonders too

way less than "honey" flavored types of store bought .... just a wee bit.

- IMO... is it cheating? Who cares if it tastes good lol.
Okay you are making me feel less guilty. Ha!

I gave it a little more time to sit and mingle in the bottle and had another taste tonight, even better. Normally I let my stuff sit a while after proofing, but I couldn’t help myself. I’ve got plenty of barrel strength stuff laying around, waiting to be proofed down, so no shame partaking early.

It seems the sweetness actually toned down slightly or my taste buds recalibrated themselves since my first tasting. It’s very good. For this recipe, it’s a great addition.

Maybe on my next bottle I’ll try a tiny bit of honey and see which one I like more. Hell it’s called Honey Bear Bourbon, right?!
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by rubberduck71 »

Wow! I just started up a batch of this stuff (well, actually 4x6 gal fermenters) yesterday, and dayyyyy-ummm does it smell good fermenting!!! Better than any other ferment I can remember. I cheated & am using YLAY.

Can't wait for the spirit run!
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

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rubberduck71 wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 2:55 pm Wow! I just started up a batch of this stuff (well, actually 4x6 gal fermenters) yesterday, and dayyyyy-ummm does it smell good fermenting!!! Better than any other ferment I can remember. I cheated & am using YLAY.

Can't wait for the spirit run!
Dear lord yes! I have a large (40 gal) batch fermenting right now and, even just when mashing it smelled like corn bread and caramel! I didn't get the best conversion but hopefully the low temp enzymes will clean up what's left. I'll be curious to hear how yours comes out with yellow label.

Why is there so much waiting in this hobby? LOL
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