Honey Bear Bourbon

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BrewinBrian44
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

Deplorable wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:57 pm
BrewinBrian44 wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:40 pm I never found the good stuff in the early heads, probably because I compressed them with my plates.

I’ve always loved the super rich grain flavor at the early tails. When I ran this on my plated column, I’d turn the defleg flow way up and collect just drips to milk this last part out. There’s a very fine line between this excellent stuff and absolute nastiness.

I suppose a full low wines pot still charge would smear this good stuff right into the middle of the run. I still need to try it out.
I ran incredibly slow for the first 600ml of a 40L spirit run, that compressed the heads pretty well. Jar 6 is crazy honey and 77%. By jar 5 I had increased my take off to a broken stream, and by jar 6 I was at a thin steady stream. Jar 6 seems to be the start of the honey pot.
I took 5ml from jars 6 though 21 and tempered it to 43% and its delicious. best white dog I've made right off the still. Tomorrows tasting of all jars will tell what the final blend and yield is, but I never found anything really nasty in any of the jars down to 57% when I started stripping the rest for adding to the next run.
Looks like I need to pot still this stuff. You got my mouth watering over here.

I’ll strip enough to fill the keg boiler and do a long spirit run. I have to know the difference from my plated column.

The plated stuff I’ve made is great and tastes very refined, but I think I might be missing out on more. It’ll be going into a second fill Gibbs for at least 1.5 years, so any rough edges should get smoothed out. I might take your advice and leave a little off to the side in glass with some stave chunks for topping off. I’ve got more than I know what to do with. I’ve got them at different toast levels, but my favorite so far is 400deg for 2hrs. Has a very rich flavor and gives some chocolate notes. Some of it might be coming from the imperial stout that spent time in the barrel before it was retired to me.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

Okay, okay…

I said I was gonna pot still this stuff, but I have been waiting to do a test run using my VM head over bubble plates to see how it compares to my CM head. To preserve more flavor, I only used 2 plates. It’s all outlined in this thread https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewto ... 87&t=85478

Instead of my usual method of single running with plates, I took SCD’s advice from his CROW bourbon thread and ran low wines instead. To maximize the flavor, I stripped almost all the alcohol and ended up with 7.4 gallons of some very oily 23% low wines. Essentially a little over 1/3 of the cleared/strained wash.

For the spirit run, I found using VM to be a superior method vs CM simply for the ease of control. Once I found my balance point for power to bleed off fores/heads “1960W,” the run went very smoothly. I probably could have ran faster, but I was feeling things out this first go round.

Because I ran plates, unfortunately, the late heads honey flavor is buried somewhere in some early jars, but the grain flavor is still immense. Once I got into the hearts, I opened the valve enough to smear the graham cracker early tails into the whole remaining run. I only have 1 jar I’d consider neutral-ish. My hearts yield with this round was very good and my best to date. I was able to keep 55% of my run.

Before, when I ran 4 plate single runs with CM, controlling the “good smearing” was difficult. Right after the good tails is a strong, chemical, perfume like bitter substance. To keep this out of my product required me to make pretty neutral hearts with lots of reflux and milk out the highly concentrated grain flavor at a painfully slow pace at the end of the run. Since I limited my plates to two and concentrated the batch by running low wines, I kept this nasty crap in the boiler til the very end of the run. My second to last jar was still hearts and everything else is too nasty to recycle.

Im very happy with these results and will be curious to compare yield and flavor with a pot still run with the same amount of highly stripped low wines. That’ll be upcoming.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by fzbwfk9r »

large dia. copper is cost restrictive, so I have been gathering copper in the form of pots etc with the end goal to make multiple bubble balls and build a plated tower

with it being all separate pots etc, I can make it modular using 2" flanges/clamps

You guys make bourbon from plates sound SOOOO good!
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

Pot still smearing with tight cuts still wins overall if you’re looking for maximum flavor, but a plated column speeds up the run and provides a higher yield of hearts. Still good flavor though! Some people on here swear by them and don’t pot still anything.

Simply put, it’s fun to run a plated column. You have total control of the flavor. Learning how to run them properly requires knowledge of what you’re tasting and smelling coming off the spout to make the correct adjustments.

When you’re collecting fores/heads on your maiden voyage, you need to get the power to a point where you’re providing just enough for good liquid beds and bubble action, but not smearing hearts. Easiest way to do this is rub the distillate between your fingers and smell. Fores and heads should smell nasty on plates, if they smell “okay,” you’re wasting hearts in your collection.

After you get past the late heads and you’re detecting very clean product, you can more aggressively smear the good tails into the hearts, but this is also a delicate balance. The good tails are followed by bitter chemical like fusels with this recipe. I’ve ruined a batch before by being overzealous. Not the dirty socks you might be used to seeing in other recipes. After many batches of HBB, this has remained consistent. The crap left in the boiler after the spirit run is insanely pungent!

You’ll love playing with plates. If I’m being honest, it’s almost become a crutch for me. Haha
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by CanadianIceman »

I'm making a slightly bastardized version of this as i'm using 2lbs of homemade wheat malt. No idea if it is hard or soft wheat. Stuff smells great and ferments fast. I will strip my first wash tomorrow.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by DasBeast007 »

Started a 24-gal batch last night. Forgot I had ordered all the grains earlier in the season. It was almost like Christmas going through them all to gather the HBB ingredients. Waiting on temps to drop enough to pitch yeast later today.
2" CCVM on a 7.5gal keg boiler
3" CCVM on a 15.5 gal keg boiler
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

Ran the first half of another 25 gallon batch of this recipe. This time I tried a single run with 2 plates and substituted 5lbs of rolled oats with 5lbs of corn meal. I ran them through a food processor. Did the run again with my VM head.

For the ferment, I totally forgot to check the OG at the beginning, but it fermented out to 0.996. This was my first time trying bakers yeast.

One thing I noticed… my yield seems a bit lower than normal for my 10 gallon run. The mash fully converted, so I can only assume the oats yielded less potential sugar than corn meal. I only got 1.6 quarts of keepers at 85%. This is even with adding some tails feints from my last run. I’m assuming my SG was either really low, or I produced a lot more tails in the ferment, causing me to stop the run early. No idea.

The final product is a success though. I’ve never used this much oat in a recipe before, but wow, incredibly smooth white dog with a lot more mouth feel. Not as sweet as usual, but great in other ways. The graham cracker flavor made it through really well, more intense than the last run with low wines. I actually found the elusive honey flavor in my last true heads jar, but I missed the cut point by just enough that it was still too headsy to blend with the final keep.

Man, I’m really dreading trying to squeeze the rest of the wash with all these oats. I’m sure it’s gonna be like squeezing pudding.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by EricTheRed »

Use a fruit press with a cheese cloth lining.
Still takes time but a lot less work
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by NormandieStill »

BrewinBrian44 wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:29 pm I actually found the elusive honey flavor in my last true heads jar, but I missed the cut point by just enough that it was still too headsy to blend with the final keep.
For my next run of this (it's gonna happen), I'm planning on running the heads super slowly and in lots of jars to see if I can't get a decent honey heads jar.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by Deplorable »

NormandieStill wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:49 pm
BrewinBrian44 wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:29 pm I actually found the elusive honey flavor in my last true heads jar, but I missed the cut point by just enough that it was still too headsy to blend with the final keep.
For my next run of this (it's gonna happen), I'm planning on running the heads super slowly and in lots of jars to see if I can't get a decent honey heads jar.
Thats how I did it on my spirit run(pot stil). I took off the first 1L painfull slow, I got very good separation of fores and the real janky heads, and found some incredible clover honey flavors in the late heads. Jars 6 and 7 left a nice lingering honey flavor. Final blending was pretty easy, Not pulling a blend for white dog was hard. Everything went on wood in a corny keg while I wait for a barrel.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

NormandieStill wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:49 pm
BrewinBrian44 wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:29 pm I actually found the elusive honey flavor in my last true heads jar, but I missed the cut point by just enough that it was still too headsy to blend with the final keep.
For my next run of this (it's gonna happen), I'm planning on running the heads super slowly and in lots of jars to see if I can't get a decent honey heads jar.
I tasted it right at the end of that filling that last heads jar, then it was way more subdued in the first hearts jar. I probably could have isolated it if I only filled the last heads jars "half pints" half way. Next time!

One other thing that was kinda interesting for me.... my heads cut in general was way more tame and smaller than usual. I changed two variables.... extra oats and bakers instead of US-05 or DADY.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

Deplorable wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 3:42 am
NormandieStill wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:49 pm
BrewinBrian44 wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:29 pm I actually found the elusive honey flavor in my last true heads jar, but I missed the cut point by just enough that it was still too headsy to blend with the final keep.
For my next run of this (it's gonna happen), I'm planning on running the heads super slowly and in lots of jars to see if I can't get a decent honey heads jar.
Thats how I did it on my spirit run(pot stil). I took off the first 1L painfull slow, I got very good separation of fores and the real janky heads, and found some incredible clover honey flavors in the late heads. Jars 6 and 7 left a nice lingering honey flavor. Final blending was pretty easy, Not pulling a blend for white dog was hard. Everything went on wood in a corny keg while I wait for a barrel.
I find blending for HBB to be pretty easy in general. Honestly, it's always been pretty linear for me. All my middles are good and the stuff after the good tails is just too nasty, I don't even bother. I'm also not generally a heads guy AT ALL.... but I'm intrigued about finding the honey.

Now doing my cuts for Rye Bourbons, muuuuuch more difficult for me. There's so much hardcore intense flavor going on in some of those jars that I just scratch my head sometimes.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

Just ran the second half of my wash that was squeezed and cold crashed. Squeezing those oats was definitely more time consuming, but I got it all out. Ran again in the same way, 2 plates, single run with VM.

Interestingly, I actually got a higher hearts yield this time around, despite using no feints. The only thing I can think of is my first run before squeezing the grains hadn’t fully cleared like the cold crashed stuff. I can normally get away with not 100% clearing the wash and can’t detect a difference, but this time, something was definitely different. I wasn’t able to get as deep into the tails with my previous run because there was a funky flavor bleeding through, even with lots of reflux. Kind of like a cooked meat smell and flavor, but definitely not a scorch. I wonder if this is something unique to bakers yeast adding some tinge to the tails while getting cooked in the boiler. Could also be the fact I used such a large amount of oats. Both runs were successful, but I got a bit more flavor with the cold crashed wash.

My goal is re-filling this 5gal Gibbs barrel in a timely manner. After two 25gal batches, I’ve got about 2gal of 86% hearts. That puts me just over half way there at 2.89gal after dilution. I’m really looking forward to how this will all turn out with some age! It’s definitely going to be much richer than my last barrel fill since that was all done with 4 plates.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by Deplorable »

I've not gotten around to making the 3rd mash to finish the barrel fill project. Having to sit and wait for a barrel, and all the other life obstacles have put stilling on hold. I've got 3 gallons at 60% in a corny keg on toasted and charred oak fingers. We're just a couple of weeks away from the kickoff to our traveling season, and a lot to do for the rally we're hosting so I doubt I'll get to making another mash before fall brings cooler fermenting temperatures. I'll probably put used oak in the 1.5 gallons of feints I have set aside to add to the next stripping run, maybe it'll clean them up some.
I was hoping to get to it this weekend, but SWMBO needed to go deep behind enemy lines for some blood tests in downtown Seattle, and my presence was a requirement.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by Stonecutter »

Deplorable-
I see you getting after this recipe Bro. That’s some good shit! I hear ya about the upcoming fall season, it’s barely spring and I’m already trying to plan out any my fall aging. I guess I’m just now beginning to understand what I’m going to call “shiner time” and how to start living on the “stillin’ schedule”.

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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by Deplorable »

Today I filled one of my barrels. Over shot my barrel entry proof just a tad but maybe it'll pull a little more sweetness. Since this is the 3rd fill, I supplemented with a few new charred and toasted oak fingers in the barrel tied to the bung with SS wire.
20220703_104351.jpg
I'm looking forward to pulling this next year.

I've never been a big fan of white dog, but I was compelled to set aside a pint of white at 80 proof.
20220703_104435.jpg
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by NormandieStill »

Just sampled some of mine from (as near as dammit) 6 months ago. In a head-to-head with an unmalted wheat and oat whisky that also had 6 months on med toasted + char.

The HBB has rounded out quite nicely. Not a lot of honey coming over but the more I've read about Gambrinus Honey Malt, the more I've heard that it's in the same family as Melanoidin malts, but is not a substitute for European Melano. There is a sweetness there and subtle hint of banana and red fruits (possibly due to an infection in one of the three ferments that went into it). It's very soft and very drinkable but not very interesting on the nose. The WO (UWO? WOU?) has more going on on the nose, but doesn't follow through on the palate.

Anyway. Seems pretty good. Think I'll bottle some and leave the rest on the oak. I don't seem to have a lot of free time this year, but I might make an active solera of HBB a project to start for 2023... unless I get distracted between now and then. Thanks again SOCD for the recipe which seems to be the gateway recipe to AG for lots of people now.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by Dougmatt »

Finally reached the end of this thread and I am +1 on trying this recipe. Gathered the grains and milled everything today. This will be my first grain attempt. I make wine and usually do Brandy's, Rums and sugar heads, but if I buy a bottle, it is a bourbon and my go to cocktail is an old fashioned so looking forward to trying this one.

Planning a 10 gallon test run split into 2 x 7 Gallon fermenters, and put it on some charred oak sticks to try it before committing to filling a new charred aging barrel. Just waiting on my most recent rum runs to finish and will give this a go!

Thanks SCD for the recipe and to everyone who contributed to this thread. Lots of notes. What a great resource!
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by Dougmatt »

Finally freed up a couple of fermenters after burning through 100#’s of Panela. Got 2 of HBB going now. Smelled great while mashing in all day yesterday. This will be my first grain ferment and looking forward to the results. OG 1.071 and 1.068 on 2x6 gallon mashes. I only had a pound of oats so I added them all to one batch and intend to do a little tasting on the strip to see what I think. Ultimately will blend everything together.

Oats whiskey wasn’t something I was familiar with so I picked up a 100% oat whiskey while on a trip last week. Like the mouthfeel, can’t say I love the taste :? , but maybe I will learn to by the time the bottle is finished.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

Dougmatt wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 2:30 pm Finally freed up a couple of fermenters after burning through 100#’s of Panela. Got 2 of HBB going now. Smelled great while mashing in all day yesterday. This will be my first grain ferment and looking forward to the results. OG 1.071 and 1.068 on 2x6 gallon mashes. I only had a pound of oats so I added them all to one batch and intend to do a little tasting on the strip to see what I think. Ultimately will blend everything together.

Oats whiskey wasn’t something I was familiar with so I picked up a 100% oat whiskey while on a trip last week. Like the mouthfeel, can’t say I love the taste :? , but maybe I will learn to by the time the bottle is finished.
I’ve discovered that the oats don’t add much flavor vs the original recipe. They seem to bring more body to the spirit and tame some of the heat. This is just my experience, so others may have different perceptions.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by n_plains_drifter »

I've mashed and stripped 2x. My efficiency is poor, but this is the first time I've used cracked instead of steam rolled corn. Need to get a third batch underway so that I've got enough low wines to make a spirit run. I've also stripped the gumballheads from each mash, so I've got some work ahead of me.

Came up with a creative solution to the 'squeeze - gumball - squeeze' routine for this second batch. The cracked makes a nice filter bed on top of my false bottom in the big a$$ brew pot and it drains perfectly, unlike when using rolled corn. So I mashed and lautered the grains and put that beer in my fermenter, figuring that any lefover goodness would end up in the gumball.

Then added water to the pot, brought it back to mash in temp and added the sugar. Let it ferment on grain, and then just opened the spigot and drained the fermented wash into the boiler. Since it was now just a wash, I didn't bother squeezing. A liter of wash to the stillin' gods is a small price to pay for luss muss and fuss.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by Dougmatt »

Did my spirit run on my first 4x6 gallon ferments. Pretty good. Put the 3.1L into a new #3.char badmo. I have about 2 gallons of ferment left with a nice lacto infection forming. I’m fermenting 3 more batches and have enough grain ready for 3 more after that so the badmo should be full with a Little white left over to play with and enjoy.

I’ve mostly done rums, brandys and sugar heads, so the cuts were pretty tough for me on this one Which is my first AG. Was pretty tasty up into what was obvious heads, and I really struggled to isolate tails that will turn funky. Maybe I drink to much bourbon with heads and tails in it ;).

Here are some notes. Curious if they match expectations:

Started with 3 gallon low wines at 35% (11.36L)

Collect:
- jar 1a - 200ml - fores - tossed
- Jar2a - 200ml - early heads - tossed
- Jar 1 - 200ml - heads
- Questionable Jar 2 - 200ml - a little sting on front lip, thinking late heads but not a bad taste, blended half into keep

Blend:

- Half of 2 - 100ml
- Jar 3 - 100m - early hearts late heads? slight back of throat burn, but nice sweetness.
- Jar 4 - 200ml - green apple nose, toast, Carmel and apple taste. A little tongue burn
- Jar 5 - 200ml
- Jar 6 - 200ml - bready, toasty, less sting than jar 4.
- Jar 7 - 200ml
- Jar 8 - 200ml
- Jar 9 - 300 ml
- Jar 11 - 200 ml - 80% ABV
- jar 12 - 300 ml - wheaty flavors and a lot of them.
- Jar 13 - 300ml - a lot of flavor, long finish, slight burn, edge of hearts? Maybe a slight tails aroma? - 78% Abv
-
- Questionable Jar 14 - 450ml 71% - tastes good, lots of flavor, added 200ml to blend,rest to feints.

Tails to feints:

- Jar 15 - 300ml 60% Abv
- Jar 16 - 350ml
- Jar 17 - 250ml
- Jar 18 - feints and run out

4.4L collected total
1.6L to feints
400ml tossed as fores

2.4L kept at 156 / 78% corrected
Added 700ml water
3.1L in badmo barrel 608

Edit: I run a pot with a small slobber box
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by n_plains_drifter »

Good on ya DougMatt, looks like you've got a winner going there. Cuts can be challenging early on but with repetition get easier. You're going to love what you've got, keep up the good work!

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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by NormandieStill »

Personally I would strip a little further to get the abv down in the low wines (And get a little more flavour across). This will bring the abv of your final blend down which means you need to add less water keeping more flavour in the spirit. I didn't go as far up into the heads as you. My blend started around what would have been your jar 4 or 5.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by Dougmatt »

NormandieStill wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 10:34 pm Personally I would strip a little further to get the abv down in the low wines (And get a little more flavour across). This will bring the abv of your final blend down which means you need to add less water keeping more flavour in the spirit. I didn't go as far up into the heads as you. My blend started around what would have been your jar 4 or 5.
Thank you for the feedback. Good suggestion on going deeper on the strips. On my rums and brandies, I usually do 1.5 spirit runs and I was planning to do the same here, but I have a 5 gallon pot and 3 gallons is a good charge so I just went with it. Btw I didn’t add any water to the low wines.

I was expecting jar 4 to be the start of hearts, and I actually cut 3 early after a taste from the spout at the 100ml point. It was really honey sweet and enjoyable off the still at that point. Hopefully I didn’t end up with too much heads. I also did an eye test and there was no sting on jar 3, jar 2 I wasn’t positive and jar 1 stung.

Thanks again. I will keep this in mind on the next batch.

Edit: oh I see. I think you mean less water added to proof down the final. Good call. Thank you!

D
Last edited by Dougmatt on Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by Dougmatt »

n_plains_drifter wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 8:44 pm Good on ya DougMatt, looks like you've got a winner going there. Cuts can be challenging early on but with repetition get easier. You're going to love what you've got, keep up the good work!

Drifter
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by BigJames »

SCD,
I’m running my second distillation of honey bear and it’s coming out at 170 proof. The rules for bourbon say that I can’t distill at more than 160 proof for bourbon. What should I do to get my proof down? Or should I just run until the average proof is 160?
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by squigglefunk »

you could have run your stripping runs a bit longer... that could have got your spirit run to comply with those "rules"

at this point you will have to be reported to the whiskey police and they will be there to deal with you shortly!
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by NormandieStill »

I thought that it was the putting on oak that couldn't be at more than 160 proof. I understood that you had to proof down before putting it in the barrel.

But as squigglefunk says, just strip further next time.

Also... is that the starting proof off the spout? If so, your final blend after cuts is very likely to be lower than that.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by BigJames »

squigglefunk wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:24 am you could have run your stripping runs a bit longer... that could have got your spirit run to comply with those "rules"

at this point you will have to be reported to the whiskey police and they will be there to deal with you shortly!
I best get to drinking’ then. I don’t want to go to jail sober! Lol
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