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I had 1 1/4" copper pipe left over from the riser on my column so that's what I used for the outer jacket on my condenser (28" long over 1/2" copper)

I'm soon to be to running a 15 gallon converted keg pot (just waiting for some welding) with a 5500 watt element on a variable voltage controller...

Just wondering if I over-killed the water jacket and will be wasting more water than needed?

thanks

If you wrap that 1/2" tube with some solid copper wire to create some turbulence in the coolant flow it should work . 1" over 1/2" with the wrap shold work more efficiently .

I did give it a wrap with wire, 14 gauge, tight but not really tight, only soldered on the ends, with maybe only 10 turns over the length,

we have a lot of water where I live, but don't want to be wasting more than needed.

with this much "breathing room" I wonder if I would be better to recirculate in a large reservoir rather than pump water down the drain? or should I just run the water flow fairly slow and let the volume take care of the heat?

You shouldnt be wasting water . On a high power strip , mine is bearly trickling . If you have your flow to fast , you inverably end up with huffing ........the trick is to reduce the water flow to the point where the exciting product is warm but fully condensed .At this point , the exiting water will be very hot .
So I doubt you will have a problem because you have a larger shell size.

If you don't want to waste water, control the condenser output temperature with cheap digital controllers and water solenoid valves. Since I've started doing this, my water usage has dropped dramatically, the waste water from the condenser is usually too hot to put my finger under and I don't have to fiddle with water flows. I don't even have to bother to turn the water off when I'm finished. I run the water into a reservoir with a weir to smooth the on/off effect.

It is overkill, but only in materials and weight. So make sure it is appropriately braced and supported, many typical designs won't handle the weight well in terms of both balance and mechanics. The excess shell doesn't make it overkill in terms of performance. It really won't perform better than a smaller shell, even a 3/4" over 1/2".

I bet it ha a solid aethetic though.

Nzchris, have you shared your coolant setup? I don't remember seeing it and am not quite picturing the weir. I did a brief search and didnt see it.

What temperature should the cooling water be at exit?

As for ascetics, still needs a polishing, but yeah it does look like it means business!

I soldered in a piece of 1/2" as a strut near the top, and will also support the end with an arm running back to base of the keg.

may be a bit short
Mine is 30" 3/4 over 1/2 and I use a fair bit of water on the strip, if i built it again I'd make it longer by a foot

Swedish Pride wrote:may be a bit short
Mine is 30" 3/4 over 1/2 and I use a fair bit of water on the strip, if i built it again I'd make it longer by a foot

Mines 36" 3/4 over 1/2. Does use a bit of water on the strip as well but it handles everything my 5500w element throws at it. I'm happy with it!

SchmuBrew wrote:What temperature should the cooling water be at exit?

Just my opinion:

For me, for my liebig product condensers, tuning coolant flow is more about the temp of your product than cooling water output. The Liebig is not so efficient that you get hot output, so I tune flow so that my product is not coming out hot. This give me a somewhat warm water output. If I tune down for hot coolant output, I can get vapor out the end.

My reflux condenser is a different story. It is much more efficient, and I do tune this condenser based on coolant output temp.

IMHO, baffles inside a Liebig is like tits on a boar; not necessary. Water is very fluid and like copper, is a great at sharing energy (heat transfer). The water and copper in a Liebig are more that capable of spreading heat evenly. You do want to be sure your fresh/cool water flows into the "bottom" and out of the "top" of your Liebig condenser. (Top = higher altitude) Keeps air bubbles from forming inside and making hot spots in the condenser.

FYI. I'm using a 24" jacket of 1" over 1/2" on my 1500w rig. I use a 24" jacket of 1 1/4" over 3/4" on my larger rig. No problems knocking down 4000 watts so far. Will be upping this to 5500W in a few weeks.

OtisT wrote:...baffles inside a Liebig is like tits on a boar; not necessary.

Nobody's advocating "baffles" in a Liebig. I don't even know how'd you do it.

Baffles are effective in a shotgun where you have a tube bank. The baffles increase "crossflow" of the cooling fluid to better remove the heat conducted into the vapor tube walls.

For a Liebig (tube in a tube) exchanger, putting a spiral of copper around the vapor tube increases the internal Reynolds number of the coolant while adding a "fin" thereby increasing the conducting surface area of the vapor tube in the coolant flow.

In fact, adding a spiral of copper inside the vapor tube will also improve it's efficiency for the same reason...increased conducting surface area for the vapor to conduct heat to the copper (vapor) tube wall.

Baffles DO improve efficiency in a tube and shell heat exchanger, just like fins do improve the efficiency of a tube in tube exchanger.

So, unless you have the engineering background, be careful about claiming the value of 'tits' on a boar....which they do have incidently.
ss

zapata wrote:So make sure it is appropriately braced and supported, many typical designs won't handle the weight well in terms of both balance and mechanics.

Very good point , one not taken into account fairly often by some of the photos I see.
Good to see that you have braced yours SchmuBrew.
Liebigs should always have some sort of brace under the end of them to support the weight of the condenser and hoses. Something as simple as a forked stick will do.

NZChris wrote:control the condenser output temperature with cheap digital controllers and water solenoid valves.

Couldnt you do the same thing using your finger as a temp gauge and turning the normal water tap to the right position?

Saltbush Bill wrote:

NZChris wrote:control the condenser output temperature with cheap digital controllers and water solenoid valves.

Couldnt you do the same thing using your finger as a temp gauge and turning the normal water tap to the right position?

I've been doing that for thirty years. Now, I've upgraded.

back in the day one of the recommended fixes for an under performing liebig

was to install a length of copper foil twisted a turn or two in the vapor path

of a vertically hung liebig, the other was a few inches if copper mesh in the inlet side.

both of which are a form of baffle. most now just build big enough for the job.

cob wrote:...a length of copper foil twisted a turn or two in the vapor path of a vertically hung liebig

Yep, that would be a "fin" in the vapor path..it adds conducting surface for the vapor to "shed" heat (and condense the vapor onto).

cob wrote:...the other was a few inches if copper mesh in the inlet side.

So, this introduces flow restriction for the vapor, thereby increasing the dwell time of vapor inside the condenser. The mesh/scrubbies add conducting surface too, but the primary mechanism is to slow the vapor speed.

cob wrote:...both of which are a form of baffle.

Tomato/tomatoe....call it what you like, but it really is not the same thing as a baffle, which would be located on the coolant side of the vapor tube wall. Baffles create crossflow in the water jacket, most common in shell & tube heat exchangers. Google it.
ss

Note on the condenser water outlet. You've got the outlet on top of the condenser. Not necessarily a problem, but when the coolant line gets hot it can make soften the hose and kink. Ironically just posted this about another still pic, so it made me notice it on this one.
copy pasta:
I've seen vertical hose like that get warm from the output of a condenser and soften to the point that it bends and restricts flow. In one case to the point that the pressure built enough to blow the hose off the fitting. I got around it with a springy coil thing made to prevent kinks in garden hoses (and diy'd one from a tubing bending spring when it happened with smaller D vinyl).

still_stirrin wrote:

OtisT wrote:...baffles inside a Liebig is like tits on a boar; not necessary.

Nobody's advocating "baffles" in a Liebig. I don't even know how'd you do it.

Baffles are effective in a shotgun where you have a tube bank. The baffles increase "crossflow" of the cooling fluid to better remove the heat conducted into the vapor tube walls.

For a Liebig (tube in a tube) exchanger, putting a spiral of copper around the vapor tube increases the internal Reynolds number of the coolant while adding a "fin" thereby increasing the conducting surface area of the vapor tube in the coolant flow.

In fact, adding a spiral of copper inside the vapor tube will also improve it's efficiency for the same reason...increased conducting surface area for the vapor to conduct heat to the copper (vapor) tube wall.

Baffles DO improve efficiency in a tube and shell heat exchanger, just like fins do improve the efficiency of a tube in tube exchanger.

So, unless you have the engineering background, be careful about claiming the value of 'tits' on a boar....which they do have incidently.
ss

Hey SS. Maybe I misread the thread so sorry if I got this wrong, but I thought putting baffles in a Liebig is exactly what was proposed, and is what I was replying to. Someone was talking about wrapping copper "around" the vapor tube, which in my mind puts that inside the water jacket, with the stated purpose in that thread of mixing the coolant water ( not vapor) up for more efficient heat transfer. I call that a baffle, but maybe I have my terms mixed up. The term used is not too important, so long as we are talking apples to apples. I am talking about baffles ( cooling water flow directors ) inside of the water jacket of a Liebig condenser.

I guess to be more accurate in my statement, I personally don't think adding those baffles inside the Liebig jacket would produce a noticeable or measurable difference. I have seen many threads showing folks adding baffles inside their Liebig, but none of those threads, to my recollection, showed any form of quantitative experiment comparing results. Maybe someone can show me some data that will change my opinion, but based on what I know about heat transfer and fluid flow, that Liebig baffle dog don't hunt. ( and yes, I have hunted with dogs.)

I do have an engineering degree and practical engineering background. I have also raised pigs and am fully aware that boars do have tits and that they are widely reported to be useless.

The condenser I'm running today has the spiral filling the water jacket, increasing the distance the water has to travel and it's velocity, thereby increasing the Reynolds number. That sort of trickery is only necessary if the Liebig is seriously undersized and the flow rate is high enough to make a significant difference.

Do turbulators actually work? http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 87&t=57690

OtisT wrote:I personally don't think adding those baffles inside the Liebig jacket would produce a noticeable or measurable difference.

+1

've seen vertical hose like that get warm from the output of a condenser and soften to the point that it bends and restricts flow.

When I attach my 3/4 hose my plan was to bring it off at 90* to combat this circumstance.

"I've seen vertical hose like that get warm from the output of a condenser and soften to the point that it bends and restricts flow."

My friend assembled my little condenser for me; and he 'improved' it by placing the water inlet and outlet UPWARDS. Said he was worried about possible bubbles in the water flow.
I fixed it, after a lot of thinking, with wooden brackets to lead the hose in a curve.

Geoff

From what I have read on here your design will work but isn't the most efficient, who knows? You will need to make some runs, take some notes and compare to what others have done.

Forgive my verbiage if it is not correct.
This is my setup, definitely more than needed but the dimensions were determined by my setup.

64" Liebig ¾ over ½ w/10 gauge copper wire turbulator.
50" water jacket
64” 3/16" flattened copper tubing for vapor tube.

I don't know if the tits on the bull are working or the vapor tube turbulator is working but there's no huffing at all.
Most of the length of the liebig is cool till about 3/4 of the way up then it gets warm.

I run my water hot and was going through 20 gallons of water per 47 minutes.
On a 13 gallon charge I am using approximately 40 gallons of water. I could probably do better but I'm happy with them numbers.

zapata wrote:Note on the condenser water outlet. You've got the outlet on top of the condenser. Not necessarily a problem, but when the coolant line gets hot it can make soften the hose and kink. Ironically just posted this about another still pic, so it made me notice it on this one.
copy pasta:
I've seen vertical hose like that get warm from the output of a condenser and soften to the point that it bends and restricts flow. In one case to the point that the pressure built enough to blow the hose off the fitting. I got around it with a springy coil thing made to prevent kinks in garden hoses (and diy'd one from a tubing bending spring when it happened with smaller D vinyl).

That originally was a concern when I built my liebig so mine hang down plus I use braided line. The output side I just hooked up a garden hose and it hasnt been a problem yet (4 runs) I do have braided line but was too lazy to hook it up (it's on my reflux still in the attic)