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I've read a huge amount of this site and even with a search only find a couple mentions per year of bentonite clay as a clearing agent. Now I know I just need to be patient and wait for it to clear naturally, but has anyone used this properly?

Is the clay meant more for liquor rather than beer and wine since they settle by 3 weeks anyway?


Regardless of bentonite clays use in fermentation, I've used bentonite clay internally to absorb toxins from a parasite cleanse to great effect. I can see how it could work at the end of wash ferment to speed things up a bit by absorbing any floating debris.


How long do ya'll wait for a grain wash to clear on its own?

What are your experiences using bentonite clay?

Are there other clearing agents other than time of which I am unaware?


Thanks for any replies, love this site.

Whiskey doesn't need clearing, in fact some distillers strip on the grain, which is about as far removed from clearing as you can get. The last time I used my bentonite was when I had a bad dose of the shits.

NZChris wrote:Whiskey doesn't need clearing, in fact some distillers strip on the grain, which is about as far removed from clearing as you can get. The last time I used my bentonite was when I had a bad dose of the shits.

Did the bentonite cause it or cure it?

BTW that's what Kitty Litter is made of, isn't it?

Geoff

Both are clay, yeah, but most kitty litter has other things added (anti microbials and perfumes) which you really don't want in your wash.

I've used it previously as it was a cheap experiment, it did settle things faster, but not as quickly as cold crashing. So I don't bother with it anymore. Also I was concerned about the accumulation of clay in my drains.

It works! have used it on some (experimental) washes
There are several grades and types. both sodium and calcium.
Best used by rehydrating for 4 hours before adding to wash

It is commonly used in the wine industry

I got a shopping trolley of bag-in-box wine that was old or looked daggy, free from the supermarket.

It was unbelievable the amount of what I assumed was bentonite in that wine!

Geoff

The Baker wrote:I got a shopping trolley of bag-in-box wine that was old or looked daggy, free from the supermarket.

It was unbelievable the amount of what I assumed was bentonite in that wine!

Geoff

Bentonite? I'd reckon there is more of a chance that it was kryptonite
Don't look a gift horse in the mouth, but. Make sure you have plenty of copper in the boiler and still head to get rid of any residual sulfur.

Thanks for the replies guys, I did get a bit of sulfur as my rig is all stainless, but just figured I was pushing the Super Start yeast too roughly temp-wise. Them yeasties took off in a 40 gallon wash... and I had the poly drum wrapped with insulation. Was wintertime but temps soared over 100 degrees.... call me Dr Fartshine.

The bentonite I used was from L.D. Carlson and it seemed to work to actually clear things somewhat in 24-36 hours. I appreciate hearing the response that clearing isn't necessary though I've read others here saying it was nearly mandatory. I really never had an issue with a cloudy wash, it looks white, bitter as hell but no way can I see the bottom of the barrel, even with a flashlight.

Sorry I didn't supply you guys with enough information in the original post and I've since learned how to correctly use the search feature, there will be no more dumb questions from me, thanks for not chopping me up too badly.

Also forgot to mention I've been doing a BW sugar wash and a homemade smoked, malted rye with Sam's popcorn mash, the whiskey was my main concern, however I purchased the $20 bucket of molasses from the feed store and was also not wanting to scorch the 15%+ unfermentables in molasses I read about here.


Thank ya kindly

Reverend Newer wrote:I appreciate hearing the response that clearing isn't necessary though I've read others here saying it was nearly mandatory.

There are big differences between making neutral and making whiskey.

NZChris wrote:

Reverend Newer wrote:I appreciate hearing the response that clearing isn't necessary though I've read others here saying it was nearly mandatory.

There are big differences between making neutral and making whiskey.

Really, pray tell.

I haven't used bentonite in a really long time. But I recall when I was trying it with wines, I felt it was removing flavor.
Might just be a bogus, decades old recollection, but that's what stuck in my head.

Honestly I wouldn't use it in beer or wine, a few days of cold crashing will fix that and retaine your flavors. I have used it in ricewine though, getting that to settle on its own would take centuries, but the Bentonite does it in a few days. However the stuff is evil wherever you dump it, better the yard than your drains tho.

Anybody familiar with drilling rigs? Water or oil either one.
Reason I bring it up is that bentonite is drill lubricant. I don't use it in my wine or mead and won't use it to clear mash or wash. No other reason than I've got it in my mouth before and it was gross.

I know the difference between a vodka and a whiskey, thanks. Man, the smugness here is at crest levels sometimes.

Guess i should have said Mash-Clearing instead of Wash but you knew what I meant when I cleared that up in the following reply. Still had to cackle though.

In my experience bentonite must be combined with very hot, RO or distilled water and placed in a blender before being added as a clearing agent. I know bentonite works for clearing yet I can see it absorbing good and bad flavors. Bentonite acts like activated carbon in some ways, just wondering what others experiences were....

I don't think I'll be asking many more questions on this site. Thanks for the productive replies guys!

Reverend Newer wrote:...just wondering what others experiences were....

Sometimes you don't have to experience it. My research done told me that I didn't want to be stripping the flavor out of my flavored drinks with driller's mud, bentonite, or whatever other names it is known by, so I never have and I won't try it until I see a credible reason to.

Sometimes in people's responses you can't get the full feeling of what is meant because words have no feelings on a screen, although we have little goofy faces on the right side of the screen to put behind a sentence to make sure people know what we mean... sometimes we just don't and then some get a sense of we're being rude or mean or standoffish. Not always the case!!!

We all come from different parts of the world, have different types of personalities, different words mean the same thing or vise versa, not all have a long winded post to describe things. Not to say we are all the most jolly bunch in the world but for the most part we give what is asked... a response to the question asked.

Not all will fluff your skirt to make you feel good, we answer the questions with personal experiences of the question asked, sometimes more, sometimes less, sometimes we go off topic and forget what the hell we needed to be answered.
All that responded either has experience with it or an opinion from what they've read, either way they took the time to read your post and post back with insite. It may not be what you wanted to hear but that's the life on this forum, you ask a question... expect to get a responce, if you don't like one you read,,, move to the next. It may have what you're looking for.

I've used bentonite in a mead that wouldn't clear, I didn't see much if any difference once used, I did However use a piece of felt folded a couple times to filter when racking and it did exactly what it said it would do.

If you use, just from my 1 experience with it... Filter when transferring to eliminate the possibility of getting it into your wash/mash in the boiler.

Shine0n

Great thread. I bought some in the past for wine.

After the great reading I think bentonite might be better use on some malted wheat that just started to turn (slight mold) along with some active carbon for the ferment.

I’ve used it for a couple of things:
1. An accelerant to mash clearing. I mix up a little as hydrated slurry and add it either when pitching yeast, or sometimes, at a mid-point when I check to see it it’s done fermenting. Just a quick paddle stir to expose any final mash for fermentation (on the grain) and de-gas. The bentonite helps it to settle very completely even though I’m not looking for a super clear final. It’s just easier to rack.
2. After aging on charred sticks, as I decant jugs out for bottling, there is sometimes some very fine dust that doesn’t want to settle easily as I get to the point I can no longer get it to pour off clear. These fines also easily go through cloth or stainless filter and badly clog coffee filters. I will strain as best I can and transfer to a smaller container, then stir in a bit of hydrated slurry. It will settle firmly in usually under a week and I can decant to a minimal point. I will then reuse this bottom slurry a few times again through the ‘harvest’ months and then toss the mud into a strip run at some point.
The bentonite doesn’t do anything to flavor or color and settles well. A little goes a long way and it is cheap as dirt. Of course, it is dirt.

The one thing to keep in mind is to NOT dump the slurry and dregs down the drain once you are done. It dries into a very cement-like substance that you don't want to have anywhere in your pipes.

Reverend Newer wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:33 pm
I appreciate hearing the response that clearing isn't necessary though I've read others here saying it was nearly mandatory.

Thank ya kindly

On a sugar wash.
I think letting yeast finish and settle for a while, before distilling makes for less tails.
Haven't used bentonite on anything other than wine.

When I look online to see what people are charging for a few pounds or even ounces it makes me laugh. It actually costs less than $10 for a 50 lb bag. Their markup is outrageous. I've seen it used as a Flocculant (clearing agent) and it appears to work pretty darn good. I have a 50 lb bag, but haven't tried using it for distilling. I just haven't found a need for it yet.

shadylane wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 4:07 pm

Reverend Newer wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:33 pm
I appreciate hearing the response that clearing isn't necessary though I've read others here saying it was nearly mandatory.

Thank ya kindly

On a sugar wash.
I think letting yeast finish and settle for a while, before distilling makes for less tails.
Haven't used bentonite on anything other than wine.

Really? Less tails? I may have to try using some then. It couldn't hurt. I've tested using it as a Flocculant for other uses, it worked well and fast too. I'll give it a try on my next wash and see how it goes.

This article outlines how to use it for clearing beer.

Salt Must Flow wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 4:33 pm
Really? Less tails?

That's my opinion.
On a sugar wash, the less spent yeast that gets into the boiler, the better.
The only "Flocculant" I normally use is to wait until the yeast has run out of sugar.
Then drop the temp and let everything settle for a day or three.

Salt Must Flow wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 4:33 pm Really? Less tails?

I wouldn't say "less tails" if allow or assisted the wash to clear properly, but certainly remove the yeasty off smell if stripped before being cleared.. as to the amount tails, they are the result of how much the SG is or ABV percentage..

I've used bentonite in all the sugar wash I do for the last 5 yrs.. wouldn't do a wash without it..

Mars

StillerBoy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 6:17 pm

Salt Must Flow wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 4:33 pm Really? Less tails?

I wouldn't say "less tails" if allow or assisted the wash to clear properly, but certainly remove the yeasty off smell if stripped before being cleared.. as to the amount tails, they are the result of how much the SG is or ABV percentage..

I've used bentonite in all the sugar wash I do for the last 5 yrs.. wouldn't do a wash without it..

Mars

I look forward to trying that out. I typically just run it when the sugar wash is done fermenting and have been happy with it. I sometimes ferment inside the boiler while another batch is fermenting in a poly drum. I pump that poly drum batch out and leave any settled yeast on the bottom. I don't recall noticing any difference between the two batches, but next time I'll try Bentonite clay and let it clear for a 2-3 days before stripping it.

How much difference it makes will depend on what you are making, the wash, your still types and how you run them, the desired end product etc..

For neutral. it's more likely to be helpful if you only have a simple pot still to run it in than if you intend to strip the wash in a pot still, then do a spirit run to azeo in a reflux still.
For whiskey and rum etc., does anyone in the industry use it in wash?

My charcoal dregs get filtered through my liver. If you need a bigger filter than your liver, you are not hobby scale.

Bentonite works great and I use it all the time. I find it works best if I siphon the "beer" out carefully from the fermenter and am careful not disturb the grain bed. I will carefully pull remaining liquid from the grain bed using a ladle and again use the bed as a pre-filtering medium. Once removed from the fermenter I will allow the yeast to settle one day and transfer the beer into another container leaving the settled material behind. Then, if additional clarification is needed I will add a bentonite slurry to the top and allow it to clarify the beer. The multi-stage clarification also helps to release the trapped CO2 that makes clarification difficult.

I use bentonite a lot in my shed….. in wine ferments. Never used it in wash or mash except for when I make Brandy out of my wine in which case I used it at the start of fermentation…. I often run my first batch ( not the wine ) straight from the fermentation bucket and rack what’s left to clear for up to a week or two and have noticed this increased “flavor” in the first batch, but personally don’t call it tails as I find the flavors interesting. This is an interesting thread. My takeaways so far are:

- bentonite will help clear the wash / mash
- uncleared wash / mash produces higher flavor content which some perceive as “more tails”
- for a neutral, clearing makes sense
- for a flavored spirit, it depends as those “flavors” add complexity and some may like them especially if barreling

If clearing a neutral is so important, why not dose with bentonite prior to fermentation, then hit with Kiesol / chitosan after fermentation to really clear it?

Edit: my experience is bentonite is most effective when added prior to fermentation start. Adding post ferment will work, but you won’t get the co2 circulation effect that is what gets the bentonite nucleation sites the maximum exposure. Stirring will work, but won’t be as effective. I did a quick search and found this link in case anyone wants more information. https://www.txbrewing.com/blog/educatio ... elsol.html

D

Dougmatt wrote: ↑Sat Oct 29, 2022 5:29 am why not dose with bentonite prior to fermentation, then hit with Kiesol / chitosan after fermentation to really clear it?

Bentonite gives the best result went added at the very start, first ingredient added dissolved in hot water.. if done in such a manner, the two part clearing agent are not required..

My method is to add the dissolved bentonite (2 tsp for 6.5 gal) at the start, then on the rest of makeup of the wash, and once the fermentation has crossed the SG of 0.995 or 0.990 (about 3 - 3.5 days), then I do a good degassing stir, give it 2 days, rack into another fermenter, degas once more, give another 2 - 3 days, at which time, if the steps are done, the wash is cleared to the point of seeing the bottom..

The bentonite will greatly assist in clearing, but stable Ph and fermenting temp also play a part in clearing.. if any of those two are not managed, clearing will try extra time..

Mars

StillerBoy wrote: ↑Sat Oct 29, 2022 7:13 am

Dougmatt wrote: ↑Sat Oct 29, 2022 5:29 am why not dose with bentonite prior to fermentation, then hit with Kiesol / chitosan after fermentation to really clear it?

Bentonite gives the best result went added at the very start, first ingredient added dissolved in hot water.. if done in such a manner, the two part clearing agent are not required..

My method is to add the dissolved bentonite (2 tsp for 6.5 gal) at the start, then on the rest of makeup of the wash, and once the fermentation has crossed the SG of 0.995 or 0.990 (about 3 - 3.5 days), then I do a good degassing stir, give it 2 days, rack into another fermenter, degas once more, give another 2 - 3 days, at which time, if the steps are done, the wash is cleared to the point of seeing the bottom..

The bentonite will greatly assist in clearing, but stable Ph and fermenting temp also play a part in clearing.. if any of those two are not managed, clearing will try extra time..

Mars

Just clarifying (bad pun intended ) that you add 2 tsp of bentonite three times, so 6 tsp all up?