Home Distiller

Howdy.

I want to make a sipping rum with character. I hope that by using high ester creating ingredients and processes, I’ll end up with something with character that is worth drinking straight.

Some of the processes and ingredients I plan to use specifically for the purpose of affecting esters include:
• Using infected dunder in the ferment
• Managing PH of the ferment for esters
• Using High ester yeast to start, and a 2nd yeast to finish dry
• Low O ferment
• Mix of fresh dunder and feints, aged. Added to Spirit Run charge
• I am considering adding sulfuric acid to infected dunder (for spirit run charge)
• Use a slow warm-up and a reflux period to encourage fischer-spier esterification
• Making appropriate cuts – look for goodness on the edges
• Time in a proper barrel – Toasted and Charred Am. Oak Badmo Barrel
etc.

I’m no expert. This is just educational for me and a good way to document as I go.

When all this is done, I need a minimum of 8 liters at barrel strength to fill my Badmo barrel, and I would like a liter or two to drink white. I have 80 pounds of molasses to work with. So everything else will be worked out from that.

Otis

Subbed in! Let the adventure begin...

well i'ma pull up a chair and hang here if that's alrite. i don't have half the equipment or time i need to do all the rum experimenting i want to so i'll be loving to see what directions you take and how your project goes.

Working with Molasses

I have 7 gallons, 80 pounds, of feed grade molasses. The label says the minimum sugar content is 33%. 33% of 80 pounds is 26 pounds so I have the equivalent of 26 pounds of sugar in my molasses. I'll use this info later when I get around to starting the ferment.

clarifying molasses
I hear it is highly recommended that molasses be clarified, especially feed grade molasses. This is especially important for this run because clarification removes "stuff" that can lead to off flavors and smells. The process of clarification is simple and takes 24+ hours to complete.

[*]Mix 1 part molasses with 2 parts water in boiler
[*]Heat the mix (I brought it up to 180 deg F.)
[*]Pour into clear bucket, to settle for 24 hours
[*]Siphon off all but the sediment. I had very little. less than 1/2" under 24" of liquid

My boiler is only 15 gallons, so I had to do this is two batches. Each batch filled up a small ferment bucket After siphoning off the good stuff I took the dregs and filled a gallon glass jug. 12 hours later I was able to siphon off an additional 1/2 gallon.

Otis

[quote="OtisT"] clarifying molasses
I hear it is highly recommended that molasses be clarified, especially feed grade molasses. This is especially important for this run because clarification removes "stuff" that can lead to off flavors and smells. The process of clarification is simple and takes 24+ hours to complete.
[/quote
Have you made made much rum before or are you only going of what you have been told or have read.
In my experience clarification of molasses is unnecessary and basically a waste of time and energy.

Saltbush Bill wrote:Have you made made much rum before or are you only going of what you have been told or have read.
In my experience clarification of molasses is unnecessary and basically a waste of time and energy.

I tried this method once. Waste of time. Proper clarification requires pH adjustment. I have not tried it, so don't know if it holds any merit.

SaltyStaves wrote:

Saltbush Bill wrote:Have you made made much rum before or are you only going of what you have been told or have read.
In my experience clarification of molasses is unnecessary and basically a waste of time and energy.

I tried this method once. Waste of time. Proper clarification requires pH adjustment. I have not tried it, so don't know if it holds any merit.

I've never done it, ever.

Saltbush Bill wrote:Have you made made much rum before or are you only going of what you have been told or have read.
In my experience clarification of molasses is unnecessary and basically a waste of time and energy.

I've made some rum before, but never before using feed grade molasses. I was going by what I read. I may skip this step next time based on all your feedback. Thanks. Otis

Starting the Ferment

The first thing to work out for my rum ferment is the sugar math. To meet my production volume requirements, I will need a 30 gallon ferment near 10% ABV. I have 80 pounds of molasses to work with, with a “minimum sugar content” of 33%. 33% of 80 pounds is 26 pounds, so my molasses has a sugar content equivalent to 26 pounds of cane sugar. Using RADs calcs page on the HD web site I found that
adding 20 pounds of white sugar to 26 pounds (equivalent) in molasses sugar should result in an ABV near 10.8% in 30 gallons. [ Link to Calcs page ]

Ferment Ingredients
• Molasses - 7 gallons, 80 pounds, feed grade molasses (clarified)
• Cane Sugar - 20 pounds
• Infected Dunder – 2 gallons (I wish I had more)
• Yeast (for Nutrient) – 4 packs of liquid yeast – Ale yeast
• Epsom Salt – sm pinch
• Yeast – Two types, pitched 24 hours apart.
• Potassium Carbonate – 10 oz used to adjust PH from 4.8 to 5.4)

The infected dunder smelled like juicy fruit gum and other fruits and with a second whiff, like the sweet dunder itself. It sat in a carboy in a fairly consistent 65 degree environment for over 4 months. It developed a light infection before the first month was up and I think it was stalled much of the remaining time (likely PH imbalance) though it would flare up lightly on occasion. No unpleasantness to the small at all. I siphoned the dunder I used to avoid sediment and surface scum. I boiled the infected dunder, yeast, sugar, and salt with water to 10 gallons, then mixed with the clarified molasses making 32 gallons. I used a wort chiller coil to bring the wash temp down to pitching temp, 71 degrees F and I aerated the wash

The yeast I used for nutrient were from expired liquid ale yeast packs someone gifted to me for this very use.

PH was 4.7. I dissolved 10 oz of Potassium Carbonate in 1 gallon of hot water before adding to the wash and stirring. This brought the PH up to 5.4.

I tested SG, even though I know that molasses throws the readings off. SG was 11 00. It is possible that actual SG is higher than I calculated due to potential variations in molasses sugar content. I calculated using the “minimum” % sugar, so it can only get better from there.

Pitching Yeast is done in two parts. Initially I pitch a high ester producing yeast for the ester precursors these yeast cells create, then I pitch a second yeast that will quickly ferment the available sugars. As ABV increases, esters are formed from the precursors left in the first yeast cells.

0 hours 71 deg F
Pitched three packs (36g) of Safbrew WB-06. It’s what I had. Label says it produces Belgium wheat beer esters. I mixed a liter of wash with a liter of warm water to 80 deg F. I gently stirred in the yeast and let that sit for 30 minutes before pouring into the ferment barrel.

Not a lot of action up front. Started bubbling lightly in 12 hours (72 F) and was doubled after 24 hours (73 F). Still what I would call light bubbles. 24 hours 73 deg F
I mixed half a gallon of wash with half a gallon of warm water in a pan to 90 degres F. I gently mixed in 120 g of Bob’s Red Mill bakers yeast. It started foaming after only a few minutes and I let it go 5 minutes before pouring into the ferment barrel. When I poured it in my ferment barrel just about foamed over.  The bubbles looked cool. It was not long before the ferment lost all surface bubbles again. Lots of bubbles for next 12 hours, then a slow decline in bubbles. Temperature reached a max of 90 F before beginning to slowly cool.

48 hours 85 deg F
A consistent slow bubble rate. Still no foam, just dark liquid with small clear bubbles that pop immediately.

PH is 4.6
SG is 10 41. (59 points below OG)
Temp 85 F and slowly declining. Ferment box has been open top/bottom the entire time, to help with cooling.

I'm all caught up now. Sure smells nice in here.

Sweet! Looking good. How long are you going to ferment it? And keep track of the aroma of the ferment daily. I think that it might give a clue to any bacteria that start to propagate.

Single Malt Yinzer wrote:Sweet! Looking good. How long are you going to ferment it? And keep track of the aroma of the ferment daily. I think that it might give a clue to any bacteria that start to propagate.

I'm not sure how long yet. Looks like I may need a few more days. I was hoping my SG would get a bit lower before it stalled out, so that I could run this sooner rather than later but that didn't happen. I just measured again and there has been no change in PH or SG in the last 6 hours. I'm looking at 7.6% ABV now, but there is enough sugar for at least 10.8%. Any thoughts on kick starting this?

Temp 81 F. PH 4.6 I do continue to see light bubbling and the barrel still smells of CO2.

I am out of PH adjuster. I could pitch some yeast, but believe I would also then need to aerate so those cells can do their funky thing and multiply. Time to read.

Otis

B vitamins and DAP, that might kick start it. Local homebrew shop should have both. Molasses has a lot of nutrients in it so it shouldn't need it but why not try. Everything else looks like it's in a good range.

Single Malt Yinzer wrote:B vitamins and DAP, that might kick start it. Local homebrew shop should have both. Molasses has a lot of nutrients in it so it shouldn't need it but why not try. Everything else looks like it's in a good range.

Thanks. I was thinking along the same lines (lack of nutrients) so last night I threw in two vit Bs, but I did not try any DAP. I saw a slight decrease in sugar over night, going from 1038 to 1036. Still a super slow bubble and smell of CO2. I just added a small amount of DAP and we will see where this goes today. If it stays stalled through the day, tonight I will aerate and drop in a scoop of yeast.

Otis

Temp is at 75 F and my SG appears to be stuck at 10 32. I saw some movement yesterday early after adding more nutrients, but it’s been at 10 32 for near 18 hours now. Starting from 11 00, I am sitting at about 9% ABV. That’s not too bad, but I know I have a little more sugar in there.

Before I aerate, adjust PH, and toss in a yeast bomb in an attempt to squeeze another % or two out of this wash, does anyone think this plan is a bad idea at this stage?

Otis

Otis if you have a small Lab size still run a gal and see if your ABV readings are correct. You may have some unfermentable left-overs from your dunder pot that are giving you a false reading.

OtisT wrote: Yeast – Two types, pitched 24 hours apart.

What are the two yeasts and what are their preferred temps.
75F / 23C is way cooler than Ive ever tried to ferment molasses at.

for me, i wouldn't aerate it this late in fermentation unless i was convinced it would help.. i'd sooner chuck a load of fresh actively fermenting yeast in there. that said, at 9% abv i'd more likely just be running it as is and aiming to grab those remaining sugars as a bonus via the dunder next ferment..
what pH are you shooting for? i've little practical experience with bakers yeast but i'd have thought that 4,6 is pretty much in range?

on a side point of interest; did you just leave your dunder to naturally infect open to air or did you add things to it?

I'd say it may well be done at 1.030 .
Have you tasted it to see if its sweet still?
Remember you have a far amount of molasses and Dunder which also has a high gravity ... all this will leave your final gravity quite high .
My all mollases rums will be completely finished and dry and the final gravity is up around 1.060 ..... never had one finish under 1.055

Unless you are making Rum with homeopathic quantities of Molasses , you will never see final gravities anywhere close to 1.000

Nice topic Otis .... nicely documented

By the way I have also tried the clarification process and even had several goes at using pH swings to encourage settling but at the end of the day it didnt seem to make any noticable difference other that to leave a strange flavour in the Rum due to all the Hydroxides and Acids .

Only benifit I found was diluting the Molasses helped the Blowflies and cigarette butts float to the top for easy scooping out

Saltbush Bill wrote:

OtisT wrote: Yeast – Two types, pitched 24 hours apart.

What are the two yeasts and what are their preferred temps.
75F / 23C is way cooler than Ive ever tried to ferment molasses at.

First was Safbrew WB-06. Ideal is 65-75F. I pitched at 70.
At 24 hours I added good ol bakers yeast. I normally pitch that at 80 and it can run up to 95 at times. This time I saw a temp spike near 85 before things started cooling.

Update

I decided not to mess with the wash and risk adding off flavors. Almost 9% ABV is just fine. I tasted the wash and it was not one bit sweet. Time to strip.

I did my first of three 11 gallon stripping runs this afternoon and I am very excited with the results. From the 12 gallons of wash I collected 10 liters averaging 30% ABV. I cut things off when I reached 10% off of the still.

Interesting Observation. The first 4 liters were clear. Jar 5-11 were all a dark brown. Jars 1-4 had strong fruit, pepper (i think), and molasses notes. In addition to the dark color, the smell of ripe banana was strong and distinct for the remainder of the run. I was drinking straight out of jars 6, 7, and 8 and enjoying it. Makes me question a second distillation? Something to ponder in my sleep tonight before I strip more tomorrow.

Otis

Awesome that it tastes good with a single distillation. How long did it ferment? Did you get any visible bacterial growth? I wonder why you were getting a brown distillate, was it puking?

Brown indicates some puking or heavy oils, but that's ok since it's a strip run.
I'd rinse out the rig really good after brown anything comes through before your spirit run (captain obvious strikes again)

kiwi Bruce wrote:Otis if you have a small Lab size still run a gal and see if your ABV readings are correct. You may have some unfermentable left-overs from your dunder pot that are giving you a false reading.

Hi Bruce. I ran a mostly full boiler, 11 gallons, and ended up with 11 liters collected with an average ABV of 30. That backs up my sugar math, that the wash is close to 9%. OG 1100. FG 1032

Single Malt Yinzer wrote:Awesome that it tastes good with a single distillation. How long did it ferment? Did you get any visible bacterial growth? I wonder why you were getting a brown distillate, was it puking?

Yes, I was plesantly surprised I was enjoying this off the still. It helps that it was coming off the still at 40%-32% when I was sampling, just the right proof.

The Ferment was done fermenting after 60 hours, though I let it go 72 hours before I first ran it.

No bacterial growth in my ferment. I boiled my infected dunder before adding to the fermenter, so I was not expecting any. I took pictures of the original infection and I saved a quart of that batch for starting my next dunder pit. I’m not sure yet if this dunder is what gave me the ripe banana smell, but if it was I sure want to save that infection. I just hope I can keep that through the spirit run.

As for the brown stuff, I guess it was puking. I will use my sight glass in the still on the next run to verify that. I know it’s not coming from my still, as I just rinsed it and other spirits don’t color on me. Yes, I do like my still “seasoned” but I only get the brown with molasses washes. Up until today I simply thought getting the brown distillate during a molasses strip was normal, but maybe every Molly run has puked on me? We learn ever day.

I understand that I could add some oil or butter to the charge that would reduce foaming/puking. I don’t plan to add the oil at this time. I’ll want to see it first (sight glass) to confirm what is what is happening before I take any action. Since my spirit runs don’t have this situation, it may not need fixin.

Otis

Taking care of the next generation of rum:

Before I start the next strip, I took care of my dunder pit for future batches. After my boiler cooled I took off 12 liters or clear dunder and added a liter of infected dunder I had saved from my previous dunder pit. The liter jar is still alive, as you can see from the nice layer of growth that developed after 5 days in the jar. Otis

how did you infect your dunder Otis?

i get that tinted distillate on rum and malt strippers and it is (for me at least) a faint continuous puking! i've checked through a sightglass and even though there is no liquid retch from the still, when it's boiling in the column enough gets carried through on the vapour to contaminate. like ya said though the spirit will clean it up fine and it's hardly any dirtier than the tails!

durty_dunderpants wrote:how did you infect your dunder Otis?

i get that tinted distillate on rum and malt strippers and it is (for me at least) a faint continuous puking! i've checked through a sightglass and even though there is no liquid retch from the still, when it's boiling in the column enough gets carried through on the vapour to contaminate. like ya said though the spirit will clean it up fine and it's hardly any dirtier than the tails!

My boiler is heating up the second strip now, sight glass in this time, so I'll be able to confirm the puke/color connection. I'm not too worried about it, so long as things still taste good.

As for the infection, I simply let it set open to the air in my home, in a carboy. It took more than 30 days before anything formed, and it sat in total for over 4 months. This current batch of dunder will infect faster with my seeds from the previous batch. As I mentioned earlier, the infection never went "big", as compared to other infections I have run. Always just a thin crust that would change looks/activity once in a while. As I understand it, the wrinkled look is growing infection and when it gets thin film of fibrous white threads on top that means it is multiplying. I have read you can purposely stall or activate infection by changing PH. I did not go there on this one but will consider it if I need to speed up an infection.

Otis

Cutting your stripping run at 10% leaves a lot of alcohol in your dunder, which will fortify it to some degree. I'd go lower than 5% to insure that the (desirable) bacteria have a fighting chance.

I recently had an infection that looked just like the last one you posted. I determined it was a brett. It infected the surface of the dunder and did not seem to make any contribution (positive or negative). Generally lactos and bretts (sour infections) are undesirable in high ester rums. I'll take a guess that it smells slightly sweet and creamy? The putrefactive bacteria we want are generally stomach churning.

Strip #2 is complete. Collected 10 liters of low wines. Did not test ABV. This run also smells wonderful. I happen to like ripe banana, and this smells of it throughout the collection (not in the first 20%) That molasses is quite distinct as well. I hope I can maintain these through the spirit run.

The color in my last low wines was from puking, as a few of you knew already. I added the sight glass on this run. I started to see bubbles about half way through, and it started puking 10 minutes later. I threw 2 TBS of butter down the column and no more foaming or puking again.

The big carboy contains 20 liters of low wines, somewhere near 30%. The smaller carboy contains 11 liters of freshly infected dunder. That is 10 liters of fresh dunder and one liter of infected dunder I reserved. The PH of the new dunder pit is 4.3. Otis

SaltyStaves wrote:Cutting your stripping run at 10% leaves a lot of alcohol in your dunder, which will fortify it to some degree. I'd go lower than 5% to insure that the (desirable) bacteria have a fighting chance.

I recently had an infection that looked just like the last one you posted. I determined it was a brett. It infected the surface of the dunder and did not seem to make any contribution (positive or negative). Generally lactos and bretts (sour infections) are undesirable in high ester rums. I'll take a guess that it smells slightly sweet and creamy? The putrefactive bacteria we want are generally stomach churning.

Good point on stripping this down a bit further. I'll remember that next time.

You may be right on that infection, and it's irreverence to the product. It smelled very sweet, fruity, and a dominant juicy fruit smell. After getting used to the smell I could also detect the smell of dunder. I was just smelling my next bi-product for use in the high ester rum, a mix of fresh dunder and rum feints I mixed 4 months ago. This stuff has the same juicy fruit dominant smell that the infected dunder did. Hmmmmm.

Getting ready to fire up strip #3.