FermCap

[CatCrap]

Dude.. what the fuck..

So, my all grain batches i found tend to foam quite a bit. I had some issues with puking, so i've been trying to minimize that. I've done so by adding oil (olive) and or FermCap to the wash in the boiler just before running. With my NChooch Bourbon, on one round i added about 6-8 drops of fermcap. The spirit came out with a very strong spicy flavor, like not pleasant like burn your tongue. The smell would burn my nose and eyes. I wasn't sure about this anomaly. In this case, i did not take a fores cut(i normally take a small fores cut on strip run, and a larger fores cut on spirit runs), because it's a strip run, and i always take a fores cut on the spirit. I thought perhaps this was the reason, that the fores of all grain can have this effect? I'm a little new to AG, so i thought maybe this was just spiciness from the wheat/barley.

So, today, i ran off a 5 gallon batch of Booners. I added about 5 drops of fermcap to the wash, then started to run. When the spirit came out, i noticed it had a very very strong burn to it. It was only coming off at 50%, so this was not an ABV burn, and anyways, it's not like a high abv burn, because i've tasted 93% and it's not like this. This continued through out the run. On the third quart jar, i was hoping it might have gone away. NOPE. I tasted it, it burned my tongue badly, even with a tiny amount, like a half a drop. I poured it through a funnel into a gallon jug, and my eyes started to burn horribly and water. I had to get out of the room. I took a deep smell from the quart jar, and it literally took my breath away. I've never had a chemical burn, but i can imagine this is what it's like. It took about 5 seconds to catch my breath and i coughed pretty hard. So... i'm not sure if i just used too much, or Fermcap is NOT meant to be distilled. I will not be using this product again for this. I understand that it's intended use is in a ferment, to prevent excessive foaming. I'd had good luck using small amounts of it in strip runs, by adding a few drops, and then i could run full speed without puking. I ended up dumping all three quarts down the drain with the water running and shutting down. I don't want to take the chance of ruining the whole batch of 6 stripping runs by contaminating with this. Like i said, i've had this problem once before, and it was bad and unpleasant, but nowhere near this. The spirit run came out fine, with that gallon as one of 6. This was downright dangerous and incredibly unpleasant. I suppose i can't say 100% for sure it was the Fermcap, but i'll be running the other 5G of wash later from the same batch of booners, and i will not be putting any fermcap. I'll probably put just a TBSP or so of neutral vegetable oil as insurance.

I'll report back my results, but i'd say right now, be VERY careful about using fermcap as an anti foam agent for distilling. I've read about others using or suggesting it's use on here, and i have used it without issue. But, to me, it's not worth the risk. I'm pretty sure i'd read that someone said he was using roughly 10 drops for a run, but i don't know the run size. Again, it may be able to be used at small amounts, but if the difference between OK and useful, and run-ruining, chemical burn result is a few drops? I'll stay the hell away from it.

I wasn't sure if i should go to the trouble to post this before, but after this experience, if i save even one other person from having this awful disaster, well then it's worth it.
Trust me, it hurts like hell to throw away half a day's work.. but it was really really awful.
Thanks, guys, CC

[zapata]

I think you're barking up the wrong tree. I and many others have used fermcap, and other similar antifoams without your problem. Lots of commercial guys use it too.
Only concerns I have ever heard re: fermcap is just a general fear of "plastic" (Yes it is silicone based, same as simethicone they sell for gassy babies), and craft guys who want to label organic can't use it. But never this chemical burn effect.
I'd look into other issues lest you waste more days work. Hope you figure it out!

[badflash]

My understanding is that Fermcap S is a type of silicon dioxide and is inert.

[CatCrap]

Youre absolutey right.

Just started the run of the other 5g wash.... used NO fermcap, only a TBSP of oil, different oil than i've ever used..

Same thing!!!
What the fuck!?!?!?

[CatCrap]

Like i said, i ran into this one run out of the 6 i did for my NC Hooch bourbon. Grain bill for that was Corn, Barley 6 row, and White wheat. One out of 6 had this same burn and taste. But, in that case, i had the other 5 gallons from the same ferment, and it did not burn or have this effect at all. What on earth could be the cause of this?

Like i said, that gallon ended up as one of 6 in my spirit run, and the spirit run came out fine. It's aired out and going to get cut today. So, if it did come through the 2nd distillation, it isn't noticeable because it's only a portion of the run. But my guess is it did not. So.. i don't get it. What could be causing this? I can't imagine it's the corn, because like i said i used this for my NC hooch with no problems except that one strip run.
The brand of corn is called "Sprout" i get Cracked corn, and grind it a little further in my food processor.
I can try airing it out really well and see if it sticks around?

When this happened on the NC hooch batch, it sat in the gallon jug for a couple weeks, and when i put it in the spirit run, it still had a slight amount of burn when i smelled it, but not as much. So, it seemed to settle down or go away over time. I pitched fores on this run too, so it's not from keeping the fores in the strip with everything else. WTF is causing this.. is it normal? is it an issue? Will it go away after airing or after the 2nd run? I'd hate to say should i proceed as normal and hope it doesn't show up in the spirit run.. because i'd be damn upset if i go to the trouble to spend 3 days mashing and running all those strip runs only to end up with a spirit run that tastes and smells like this. It is absolutely without question not drinkable at this point. This is disappointing to say the least.

So, i guess my game plan right now.... is to run this strip. Save the low wines in a gallon jug. I plan to do a mash day wednesday. I'll do a batch of Booner's the same way i did last time (pretty much the same way i did the NC HOoch, only using enzymes and all corn.) And hopefully... god willing, after I mash all day, cool it down, pitch yeast, let it ferment for 4 days or so, strain the wash, squeeze the wash with the mop wringer and paint bags, let it settle for a few more days.... then strip again. And hopefully.. god i hope so... the next time it doesn't come out like this. I'm at a total loss for what is causing this, and any advice is much appreciated.

Thank you for your reply on the Fermcap. I didn't know for sure that was causing it, and like i said, i was very surprised that just a few drops more of fermcap could have this result. So, i think we can pretty safely rule out fermcap as the cause of this. But.. that just brings more questions. What the hell is causing this, and will it go away?

[butterpants]

I use kettle defoamer 105 from Five Star. 2 drops in 10 gallons in a 15 gallon boiler. filled to 12.5 gallons. Along with some sort of boiking chips. Never ever never pukes.

200ppm is the threshold of food safe for this product I think. It's fairly inert and I only use it for strip runs.

I second the fact that Fermcap shouldn't be causing this... but I have no idea what is.

[zapata]

What's your experience level catcrap? Not to give you a hard time, just to check off the easiest things first. And by far the easiest thing is just that low wines can be pretty gross. I hardly pay them any attention. And the one other time you've noticed this, granted only from a portion of the low wines, but it went away in the spirit run. In general low wines should be pretty consistent from batch to batch, but only if you are.

My personal approach is to never take a fores cut when stripping, but always strip deep. So overall my low wines reak of tails, but they sure do have a fores nose to them as well. If for some reason I don't strip as deep they are more solventy for sure. Any chance you are just stripping these runs differently? Stopping sooner on the harsh solventy ones, stripping deeper on the less offensive ones?

Hard to say being it's just low wines, we can't smell them, and don't know your nose well enough to know if it's really off base for low wines any way.
My next guess would be yeast or fermentation conditions.

So we know booners recipe, but what's a summary of your still and how you're running it? Seems strange you mention doing 6 strips to get a spirit run, if you're using the same boiler I don't see how you could do more than 4 at most and most people get enough volume on strips to manage just 3 strips per spirit run.

[ShineRunner]

Another vote that fermcap has not caused any issues for me. However, I don’t try to taste or smell my low wines all that often. I take a fores cut on on both runs but why bother with collecting low wines in small jars or tasting and smelling? They usually smell and taste terrible. How they come out tasting delicious on the spirit run is obviously some kind of voodoo..

Sounds like something in your process. Did your ferment smell good and clean? It must’ve come from there..

As Zapata said, we can’t smell it or taste it, so you’re kind of on your own on this. Give us some more info and we can try to help. Ultimately, it sounds like it didn’t carry through, so it may not matter much?

SR

[CatCrap]

I've been stilling hard for aroind a year. I've probably done over a hundred stripping runs by now. Rum, UJSM, some brandies, neutral-wposw, etc. I've only just got into AG.

I am leaning toward something with the ferment. Either I let it sit too long, or the yeast were very unhappy and let out some nasty off flavors. This was my first go at booners

20# cracked corn, cooked with 2 gallons backset and 8 water, cooked using my immersion chiller (ss) as a heater. Cooked at around 190 for 2.5 hours with one tbsp sebstar , cooked down by adding water to 150 degrees, added sen amyl gl, one tbsp. Let mash for about 4 hours, then cooled quickly using the chillerr to 95. Pitched a large rehydrated amount of DADY. Fermernted for about 5 days until dry. Tacked off what I could, then squeezed t he rest through paint bags in my mop wringer. Sat and cleared for another 3 days or so.

I've never found low wines to be too pleasant, usually becayse I strip down to 20% so there's a good bit of tails. But this was very strong right as it came off the still, and didn't improve at all. I did find my yield was a bit low on this, as it started comib g off at around 40-50%, where usually strip runs start higher.

So, maybe I didn't get full conversion, or the conditions just weren't right for my yeast. I'll try the recipe again and be a little more precise. I did use a bit more enzymes than was needed or called for. Possible this is it? No idea. Like I said I'll give it another shot and hope for the best. I had done my Nchooch bourbon spirit run the night before and it came out nice, so I dontbthink it is anything in the actual stilling process, I think the issue was in the ferment. To be sure I disassembled everything fully and gave it a thorough cleaning.

I kept what I got from the second strip and left the cap off to hopefully air out some. Maybe it will improve given a few weeks.

Thanks for the replies, and sorry for blaming fermcap, as it appears that is not the issue.

[Tater]

How are you heating your still?

[CatCrap]

Internal elements. 2 of them. One is a 1500 watt "still heater" from brewhaus. The other is a 1650 lwd from Amazon, I believe dernord brand. It's wired through an element guard kit. For spirit runs I use a controller on the smaller, lower element.

I'm going to try booners again tomorrow. 25# corn, the final volume Wil be 50l. That includes the corn.
I'm not going to include any backset. That could have been part of the cause. So, I'll heat up a few gallons h20 with some gypsum and citric. Add that to the corn in my igloo mash tun. Let it sit for a half hour or so while my kettle heats up another 6 gallons of water. Add that boiling h20 to the igloo to bring it up to the 7 gallon mark. Then I'll refill my boiler, and plumb it through a pump to t he ss wort chiller. Put the wort chiller in the mash tun, pump boiling water through it, to cook the corn at around 190 for 2 to 3 hours, with seb star enzyme added. Check ph make sure it's in t he proper range. Use a drill mounted mixer to mix every 15 min or so. Once I feel like I've cooked all the starch out, I'll cool down with a couple gallons h20 to 150. Adjust Ph if needed for the addition of seb gl. Let it mash with the lid on for 3 hours, or until it's very sweet and the iodine shows conversion. Then add water if there's any space to help cool it down to pitch temp. Use wort chiller to bring down to 90 degrees. Scoop the mixture into 2 25l fermenters evenly. Top up to 25l each with water, add a small amount of yeast bites. I'm going to use Us 05 yeast this time.
Also, last time I wrapped the fermenters in towels. I'll leave those off, and let it ferment cooler this time.

[CatCrap]

All water used in the ferment us tap water, that has been brought to a rolling boil for ten min then allowed to cool open for a couple days for chlorine to dissipate.

[butterpants]

Just add campden, kills chlorine and chloramine in a few minutes.

[fizzix]

Hey CatCrap~
Do I remember correctly that you added on to your still lately... a dephlegmator or something?
Just thinking out loud --that's not harboring anything wicked, is it?
Still out loud: You don't have any plastics or synthetics coming into contact, do you?
Are your elements burned black or crusted?

I don't figure you're negligent or a dummy by any means, so excuse the stupid questions.
I've been on a Booner's kick for the last month myself, and haven't had anything near the pungency that you've described.
That would drive me nuts and these things came to mind. Good luck finding the problem!

[dieselduo]

Just add campden, kills chlorine and chloramine in a few minutes.

+1 on the Camden tabs , saves a lot of time

[Tater]

Internal elements. 2 of them. One is a 1500 watt "still heater" from brewhaus. The other is a 1650 lwd from Amazon, I believe dernord brand. It's wired through an element guard kit. For spirit runs I use a controller on the smaller, lower element.

I'm going to try booners again tomorrow. 25# corn, the final volume Wil be 50l. That includes the corn.
I'm not going to include any backset. That could have been part of the cause. So, I'll heat up a few gallons h20 with some gypsum and citric. Add that to the corn in my igloo mash tun. Let it sit for a half hour or so while my kettle heats up another 6 gallons of water. Add that boiling h20 to the igloo to bring it up to the 7 gallon mark. Then I'll refill my boiler, and plumb it through a pump to t he ss wort chiller. Put the wort chiller in the mash tun, pump boiling water through it, to cook the corn at around 190 for 2 to 3 hours, with seb star enzyme added. Check ph make sure it's in t he proper range. Use a drill mounted mixer to mix every 15 min or so. Once I feel like I've cooked all the starch out, I'll cool down with a couple gallons h20 to 150. Adjust Ph if needed for the addition of seb gl. Let it mash with the lid on for 3 hours, or until it's very sweet and the iodine shows conversion. Then add water if there's any space to help cool it down to pitch temp. Use wort chiller to bring down to 90 degrees. Scoop the mixture into 2 25l fermenters evenly. Top up to 25l each with water, add a small amount of yeast bites. I'm going to use Us 05 yeast this time.
Also, last time I wrapped the fermenters in towels. I'll leave those off, and let it ferment cooler this time.

Might want to check the elements grains even cleared can scorch a lil sometimes.

[CatCrap]

Thanks, All, for the replies.

First, i did get a dephlegmater, but i don't use it unless i'm doing a neutral run. This is striclty potstilling in this case.

Nothing burned or crusted on the elements. I cleared them pretty well i'd say, and strained well too, i think, so i'm pretty sure the wash is clear enough. I'll pay more attention to next round. If i get the wash racked off the lees, or at least mostly, it can sit for a few days, correct? As long as i don't pick up an infection? I recall reading, here on HD, second hand, that ian smiley's pure corn whiskey book insists that you run the wash within 96 hours of pitching. So, is it better to Run your wash as quickly as you can, regardless of wether or not it gets infected (it didn't) and regardless of how clear (in this case, it probably wouldn't be very well cleared) or maybe take a little more time, to allow the wash to clear properly? The tall "better bottle" i put the second half of the wash (the stuff that gets squeezed through the wringer) in has more sediment, and i can see as a few days go by, it continues to settle and settle and compact more, when it starts out at oh 8 inches high or so, and by the end has compacted to only about the bottom 2-3 inches of the "carboy". I rack above this into the boiler, leaving as much as i can behind.

I do not have any synthetics persay, i will say, i have some silicone TC gaskets, i also have some PTFE ones. I got the silicone ones that came with my brewhaus PS2(which i still use some pieces from, the boiler and lid, one one of the column sections). I kind of use them interchangeably when setting up my still. It goes Boiler - Lid - 2" X20" TC Spool - 2" 45 degree bend w/ thermowell - 2" sight glass - 2" 90 degree bend - 2"X24.5" shotgun - 2"X3/4" TC Endcap reducer - glass jar. (Sometimes if i run the shotgun vertical there is another 45 in there.)

So, thats about 4-6 gaskets, usually 4 or so are PTFE and 2-3 are Silicon (the ones from brewhaus). I've never had any issues before whatsoever using these gaskets. The only thought process i have on them, is that on some connections, like to the column from the lid, i use a ptfe one. I find that i can really dog down the triclamp hard with the PTFE, which i prefer not to do too hard with the Silicon, for fear of ripping or crushing them. I could try all PTFE, i have enough, but, i don't think this is the issue.

One thought i had... could it be the mesh? I usually use one plug of copper mesh (brewhaus again) in the bottom of the column piece. By "plug" i mean a 5 foot or so length that i roll up. One of my thoughts was... I'll use a roll of mesh for a few runs, and once it starts to look kind of faded, brown, not shiny, blackish, i'll set it aside, then once i have about 5 rolls, i'll do a clean on them. I soak them in very hot water with a few heaping TBSP of citric acid. Agitate the mesh in the liquid, until it turns bright copper color again, then rinse the mesh well and hang it to dry. Once dry, i'll set them aside and into the rotation, using them when the roll i'm on has become faded. Is it possible that the first run i do with a roll that has been cleaned could be getting somehow contaminated? I dunno the logic behind this.. i'm kind of grasping at straws. Like i said, i'm leaning toward it being a ferment issue. I did a spirit run the night before and a spirit run last night, with all the exact same pieces, and didn't have any issues at all. I think i either stressed the yeast too much, or maybe i used too much enzymes? Or maybe not enough nutrients? I usually use a small yeast bomb, for insurance, but, i know Booner's recipe, Like UJSM, doesn't call for any nutes. Do most of yall use any nutrients in your AG or Grain ferments, or get everything you need from the Grain?

My other variable to eliminate is the backset. I've got a 5 gal bucket of AG backset from my NC Hooch, which the last strip was a couple weeks ago, so it's getting a bit old. I used this backset for my Booners. I'm thinking for my batch tomorrow, i'm going to omit this backset. i could either use some UJSM backset, or just go without, using some gypsum and citric acid for adjustment as needed. THen, if this run is succesfful, i'll save the Booner's backset for the next batch. Then i'll be starting fresh.
On one hand, i don't want to change TOO many variables, so i can figure out the cause... on the OTHER hand, i don't want to have this happen again, so i'm trying to eliminate any possible cause it could have been.

Thanks, guys.

[CatCrap]

Regarding Campden... i actually did pick up a packet of them a long time ago, to use for this. I thought id recalled some where on HD that they are not recommended for use. PErhaps i'm mistaken. How many do you use per G of h20? Do you crush them, or do they dissolve easily? Do you use them in room temp/cold H20, or Hot? Any other tips on their use? DOn't they require a 24 hour wait as well?

Thanks, CC

[butterpants]

Regarding Campden... i actually did pick up a packet of them a long time ago, to use for this. I thought id recalled some where on HD that they are not recommended for use. PErhaps i'm mistaken. How many do you use per G of h20? Do you crush them, or do they dissolve easily? Do you use them in room temp/cold H20, or Hot? Any other tips on their use? DOn't they require a 24 hour wait as well?

Thanks, CC

1 will do in 20 gallons. They loose potency over time though. Get freshies. I wait 15 minutes after crushing one between a spoon and giving a nice stir. Pitch/stir/whatever right after.

[butterpants]

Thanks, All, for the replies.

First, i did get a dephlegmater, but i don't use it unless i'm doing a neutral run. This is striclty potstilling in this case.

Nothing burned or crusted on the elements. I cleared them pretty well i'd say, and strained well too, i think, so i'm pretty sure the wash is clear enough. I'll pay more attention to next round. If i get the wash racked off the lees, or at least mostly, it can sit for a few days, correct? As long as i don't pick up an infection? I recall reading, here on HD, second hand, that ian smiley's pure corn whiskey book insists that you run the wash within 96 hours of pitching. So, is it better to Run your wash as quickly as you can, regardless of wether or not it gets infected (it didn't) and regardless of how clear (in this case, it probably wouldn't be very well cleared) or maybe take a little more time, to allow the wash to clear properly? The tall "better bottle" i put the second half of the wash (the stuff that gets squeezed through the wringer) in has more sediment, and i can see as a few days go by, it continues to settle and settle and compact more, when it starts out at oh 8 inches high or so, and by the end has compacted to only about the bottom 2-3 inches of the "carboy". I rack above this into the boiler, leaving as much as i can behind.

I do not have any synthetics persay, i will say, i have some silicone TC gaskets, i also have some PTFE ones. I got the silicone ones that came with my brewhaus PS2(which i still use some pieces from, the boiler and lid, one one of the column sections). I kind of use them interchangeably when setting up my still. It goes Boiler - Lid - 2" X20" TC Spool - 2" 45 degree bend w/ thermowell - 2" sight glass - 2" 90 degree bend - 2"X24.5" shotgun - 2"X3/4" TC Endcap reducer - glass jar. (Sometimes if i run the shotgun vertical there is another 45 in there.)

So, thats about 4-6 gaskets, usually 4 or so are PTFE and 2-3 are Silicon (the ones from brewhaus). I've never had any issues before whatsoever using these gaskets. The only thought process i have on them, is that on some connections, like to the column from the lid, i use a ptfe one. I find that i can really dog down the triclamp hard with the PTFE, which i prefer not to do too hard with the Silicon, for fear of ripping or crushing them. I could try all PTFE, i have enough, but, i don't think this is the issue.

One thought i had... could it be the mesh? I usually use one plug of copper mesh (brewhaus again) in the bottom of the column piece. By "plug" i mean a 5 foot or so length that i roll up. One of my thoughts was... I'll use a roll of mesh for a few runs, and once it starts to look kind of faded, brown, not shiny, blackish, i'll set it aside, then once i have about 5 rolls, i'll do a clean on them. I soak them in very hot water with a few heaping TBSP of citric acid. Agitate the mesh in the liquid, until it turns bright copper color again, then rinse the mesh well and hang it to dry. Once dry, i'll set them aside and into the rotation, using them when the roll i'm on has become faded. Is it possible that the first run i do with a roll that has been cleaned could be getting somehow contaminated? I dunno the logic behind this.. i'm kind of grasping at straws. Like i said, i'm leaning toward it being a ferment issue. I did a spirit run the night before and a spirit run last night, with all the exact same pieces, and didn't have any issues at all. I think i either stressed the yeast too much, or maybe i used too much enzymes? Or maybe not enough nutrients? I usually use a small yeast bomb, for insurance, but, i know Booner's recipe, Like UJSM, doesn't call for any nutes. Do most of yall use any nutrients in your AG or Grain ferments, or get everything you need from the Grain?

My other variable to eliminate is the backset. I've got a 5 gal bucket of AG backset from my NC Hooch, which the last strip was a couple weeks ago, so it's getting a bit old. I used this backset for my Booners. I'm thinking for my batch tomorrow, i'm going to omit this backset. i could either use some UJSM backset, or just go without, using some gypsum and citric acid for adjustment as needed. THen, if this run is succesfful, i'll save the Booner's backset for the next batch. Then i'll be starting fresh.
On one hand, i don't want to change TOO many variables, so i can figure out the cause... on the OTHER hand, i don't want to have this happen again, so i'm trying to eliminate any possible cause it could have been.

Thanks, guys.

This looks pretty legit and similar to what I do. I wrap and silicone gaskets in teflon plumbers tape and only use a silicone connecting the ferrule reducer from a 3" column to sanke 2" flange.

Never underestimate pissing off your yeast.

I scored some free yeast from the brewery and ran 30 gallons of bourbon mash on it. Temps got a little high (80ies).... I normally run US-05 or USW-6 there with no issues. Well this London Ale strain from BSI became really unhappy. The fermentation reeked of hydrogen sulfide and vulcanized rubber as did the low wines (concentrated in the tails). It was almost unbearable... the aroma that is.

Well I ran it really slowly anyway and got some nice hearts off...but I was lucky. Didn't think it was redeemable.

I'm pretty laxed with sanitation (for a brewer) but never again will I take for granted my yeast heat tolerance range.

[TDick]

Just add campden, kills chlorine and chloramine in a few minutes.

+1 on the Camden tabs , saves a lot of time

Off Topic Noob question.
On Amazon there are two types of Campden tablets:
Campden Tablets (potassium metabisulfite)
Campden Tablets (Sodium Met bisulfite)
Sold by different vendors but with LD Carlson on both packages and both with 550 mg of the particular form of metabisulfite.
Is one product preferred over another?

[butterpants]

I use Kmeta.... potassium version.

[fizzix]

You have better maintenance on your Brewhaus copper mesh than I do. (My setup is a 2" Brewhaus PSII)
On the rare occasion I do clean it, I soak it in brewer's PBW (an Oxyclean cleanser) overnight.
Rinse thoroughly, then boil it in lemon juice/vinegar, again rinsing THOROUGHLY afterwards.
This always does the trick. Never a funk or worry of an otherwise soapy residue.

[butterpants]

I clean the hell out of my mesh.... every run. PBW then starsan (just because it's a handy acid, not for sanitation purposes).

The PBW bucket always has some blue copper sulfate and the star san bucket always has some brown crap in it after.

The idea of seasoning is interesting but I don't want that crap in my spirits. I found letting the copper go multiple runs sometimes yielded a distillate with a light blue cast to it.

[zapata]

Interesting, I always thought the dull brown to black copper was more effective at eliminating sulphur. I typically clean things on the downstream side well enough that I don't get chunks of corroded copper in the output, but only rarely clean to shiny on the upstream side, and usually because I'm cleaning puke or flavor residue, not just because it has a patina.

[CatCrap]

I find that mesh after a run, and especially after a couple runs, has a strong backset ish taste to it. If i'm doing UJSM, for example of something with distinct backset taste, and i clean the mesh afterward with my hands, rinsing under water, that backset smell will stick to my hands for a couple hours afterward. I can smell it on my fingers.. backset on mesh is a very very peculiar and distinct odor. Im a weirdo, but, i used to dislike, now i'm just used to that smell. I don't mind the smell of backset,but defiitely recognize it stinks, and is confusing for non-distillers (AKA 99% of people).

BUT.. i think from your responses its moderately safe to say, that it is not the mesh. I've just started my next batch.

Put 23# Cracked, then ground in the food processor, corn into the igloo 10 gallon "mash tun". I was short on ground so i added 3# of straight from the bag, sprout brand cracked corn. I boiled 7 gallons or so of h20 on the stove in pots, added 2 tbsp gypsum to one of them and whisked in. When the pots were rolling boil, i added both to the corn in the mash tun.

Gave it a good mix, and put the top on. I've got my 8 gal boiler with water in it coming to the boil, and am riggiing it up to pump water through a 50' 3/8" immersion cooler coil which will cook the corn.

Next step is to get that going, check temp and PH, and adjust if needed so i can add Seb Star.
Ph is 4.8 from my hannah dig. ph meter. So, no need to adjust. The corn is a very very thick slurry. Even the electric mixed barely gets it moving. I gave it the best mix i could, did my measurements, and the tmep is 176. So... time for enzymes.. Seb star instructions call for .36ml a pound of grain. I'm using 26# of corn, So... 9.36 ML. 2 Teaspoons =9.85784 ML, so i'll put int 2 tsp.

Time to throw some heat to it as well. I'll rig up the wort cooker.
I'm at the 8 gallon mark in the cooler, so not much room to spare. THe slurry is extra thick, it's a lot of grain to the ratio of water. I expect the Seb Star HTL to thin it out significantly, but still, it's a lot of grain. SO, i'll get this rigged up, get some pics, and post again shortly.

CC

With fingers crossed!!!!!

[CatCrap]

30 min later and a PITA struggle.. i had the pump backwards. It's a Little brown pump off amazon, if any of yall are familiar, n its not real clear which was is in or out, and it needs to be primed, usually by me sucking on the outlet (haha). SO i tried and tried, until i realized it was backward from the way i normally set it up. I'm sweating like a pig, and the floor has a massive puddle of water on it. I guess it's time to clean up. At least i've got it going. I also realized it's not enough water to cook the corn, as some of it is hiding in the areas where the wort cooker is. I'm boiling 2 more gallons of water to bring it up to the 10g mark, or, full. I usually like to leave some space, A, so i don't make a mess, and B, so i can add cool water to bring it down to mash temps quicker. I guess with that much grain, i need the full 10 gallons to cook it. I'll plan to use the wort cooker as a chiller when i'm fully gelatinized and ready to bring it down. The liquid part has thinned significantly, almost water like, thanks to that magic HTL enzyme. Really an incredible thing. But, theres still so much grain, and with the wort cooker in their it's tricky to stir well and get to all the nooks and crannies. The added water should help, it's just going to be reallly full.

I also usually mash at 150, seal it up and let it go. im considering a lower mash temp? I've read about the different results you can achieve with the range of temps for mashing, from 150 down to about 135. Any tips on this area are more than welcome. Anywho..

temp is at 183. The kettle is boiling hard, so pumping h20 through the 50 feet of SS seems to work well. I'll add the rest of the water, and mash at high temps like this for a couple hours, to make damn sure i cook the hell out of that corn.

[CatCrap]

It's been about 2 hours since liftoff. Temp is 195. The wort cooker works great. Thanks Brendan!

I'll give it at least one more hour of cooking, then bring down to mash temp.

Side note... I've nothing against the little brown pump.. but.. you get what you pay for. It was only 20ish $ on amazon, and the reviews told the story of it, passable, but not great. So, i think i'll have to upgrade this pump soon. I had the thought of getting a second cooler, i've got a second wort chiller, and using a splitter to do two 10G batches at a time.

[CatCrap]

Ok here is the set up
8 gal kettle full of boiling h20 from a 1650 w element.
1"npt port with a 1" ball valve on it. On the end of that ball valve is a push connect. Goes to a piece if pc hosing. Which is spliced to a piece of high temp hosing. Goes into the pump, then high temp hosing out of the pump, spliced to a push connect hose, to pc union, to hose, to wort cooker. 50' of 3/8 ss. Pc hose on.outelet, going to a union, then a piece of high temp hosing, which I added a braid of wire too, which dumps back into the boiler.

[CatCrap]

OK, it's been right around 3 hours of cooking the corn at 190. So i've hooked up the wort chiller to the reservoir and am pumping cool water through it. I'll bring it down to 145 and add 2 tsp of Seb Amyl GL. Just checked PH and it's somehow at 5.2? Huh? Well i guess ill have to add some citric and bring it down a bit for the optimum range for the second enzyme. Temp is at 175 now, so it's going to take a few minutes, even with the wort chiller.