Home Distiller

I'm going to make a batch of inverted sugar to use in my mashes, and figure I'll make a big batch (scale up). I found this recipe online and thought I'd post it here as I didn't see any instructions for it on the board.

Lyle's Golden Syrup is inverted sugar syrup, for those who like the product.


Substitute for citric acid - I've seen lemon juice, is lime juice an equal part sub?


Makes 1/2 lb (225 g) invert sugar

1/2 lb (225 g) sugar
1/8 tsp (1/2 g) citric acid OR cream of tartar (Substitute 1 tablespoon of lemon juice or white distilled vinegar for every 1/2 teaspoon of citric acid)
3/4 cup (175 ml) water

1
Combine all three ingredients in a medium saucepan. Add the sugar, water, and citric acid to a non-reactive saucepan and stir the ingredients together until combined.

2
Boil the contents of the pan. Place the saucepan on a stove and heat it over medium-high. Continue heating until mixture begins to boil gently.
Stir the mixture as it heats up to distribute the heat evenly, but stop stirring once the mixture reaches a boil.

3
Scrape the sides of the pan. Use a wet pastry brush to scrape stray sugar crystals off the sides of the pan and into the boiling syrup.
Dip the pastry brush in clean water before using it to wash down the sides of the pan. This additional water should not have any effect on the final product.

4
Reduce the heat and let the contents simmer. Reduce the heat to low or medium-low and allow the mixture to simmer lightly for 20 minutes to 2 hours.
Do not stir the sugar mixture as it simmers. Stirring will encourage the sugar particles to clump together, which will increase the risk of crystallization and create a grittier final product.
Keep the temperature low during this part of the process. High temperatures can cause the sugar to caramelize, which could ruin the final product.
Regardless of how long you allow the mixture to boil, it should reach a temperature of at least 236 degrees Fahrenheit (114 degrees Celsius) before you proceed any further past this step.
If you want the invert sugar to remain light in color, simmer it for a shorter period of time. To produce a rich amber color**, simmer it for a longer period.

**If you choose to simmer it beyond 30 to 40 minutes for a darker/amber color: watch the invert sugar syrup as it simmers. Once the volume decreases by one-third of the original volume, stir in another 1/4 cup (60 ml) of water. This will prevent the invert sugar from burning in the pan.

5
After the invert sugar cools to room temperature, it can be used immediately or stored for later use.

Thanks for that, dresden.
I always invert sugar to make life a little easier for the yeast.
Figure anything willing to die for my vice deserves a little break.

Pleasure! Do you know; can I just scale that up as much as I want, with no adjustment, and 2 - is lime juice interchangeable with lemon juice?

Sure, scale away.
Lime juice is slightly more acidic -not much- so would work fine.
I know in cooking the difference is negligible and they're interchangeable.

Most of what Ive read ..and most of what Ive seen on most forums says most folk don't bother with inverting , the work and time involved don't add up to that much better fermentation for it to be worthwhile.
Anyhow go at it .....but I reckon ya wont be bothering in another 12 months or so.

It is worth it for beer as cane sugar gives beer a cidery taste. Can't say if it makes a difference in distilling, no experience to compare. I was reading in a post someplace here that if you add the citric acid to your mash and boil it, it will invert the sugar. Can't find the post as my eyes were bleeding already. I can never seem to find stuff twice.

I've seen that too badflash, I just don't usually boil my mashes, just my water, unless I'm doing corn, even then I just boil the corn and once I've pitched the malts and they've done their thing I usually add my sugars around 125-130. It's just a lot more to get 5 or 6 gallons with say 7lbs sugar, 10lbs corn, 3lbs malted barley to boil, I don't even have a container for that.

Saltbush Bill wrote:Most of what Ive read ..and most of what Ive seen on most forums says most folk don't bother with inverting , the work and time involved don't add up to that much better fermentation for it to be worthwhile.
Anyhow go at it .....but I reckon ya wont be bothering in another 12 months or so.

(+1) - I don't even bother dissolving the sugar - just tip it in straight from the packet - That was good enough for many years of winemaking, so I figure it's good enough for a wash. The yeast eats it up fine.

[Edit - that little bit of acid you add for inverting is important to the yeast though. If you don't "invert" - still add the acid to the wash along with the normal nutrient ]

Pikey wrote: (+1) - I don't even bother dissolving the sugar - just tip it in straight from the packet - That was good enough for many years of winemaking, so I figure it's good enough for a wash. The yeast eats it up fine.

I've not done this with sugar, but when I make mead I only dissolve a small amount of honey and leave the rest on the bottom. There are lots of studies that show a slow supply is better than a bunch all at once. Let the yeast take it as it wants it. This is supposed to also reduce fermentation lag.

Saltbush Bill wrote:Most of what Ive read ..and most of what Ive seen on most forums says most folk don't bother with inverting , the work and time involved don't add up to that much better fermentation for it to be worthwhile.
Anyhow go at it .....but I reckon ya wont be bothering in another 12 months or so.

I usually invert the sugar, it mixes instantly into the wash. Hardly any effort to invert the sugar and in the time it takes I am doing something else...
And I use it hot so have to use very little hot water to get the wash to happy yeast temperature. Mostly cold from the hose.

Geoff

distiller_dresden wrote:It's just a lot more to get 5 or 6 gallons with say 7lbs sugar, 10lbs corn, 3lbs malted barley to boil, I don't even have a container for that

All that cane sugar and grain sugar in a 5 gal batch (6 gal when the grains are added), the SG must be on the very high side.. do the yeast even ferment at that level of sugar..

Mars

Oh yeah, they were quite happy; took about 12 days to complete using a yeast with a 13% ABV tolerance.

Invert mine with Dunder or backset for next run.

Bushman wrote:Invert mine with Dunder or backset for next run.

Well yes I guess we are.

Posting a bump to up the recipe for those who hate/are bad at math-

4 lbs invert sugar

4 lbs (1800 g) sugar
1 tsp (4 g) citric acid/cream of tartar OR 2 tblsp lemon/lime juice or white vinegar
6 cups (1400 ml) water

1
Combine all three ingredients: add the sugar, water, and citric acid to a non-reactive large saucepan or small pot and stir until combined.

2
Bring to a boil, patiently: place on stove and heat over medium-high. Continue heating until mixture begins to boil gently.
Stir the mixture as it heats up to distribute the heat evenly, but stop stirring once the mixture reaches a boil.

3
Scrape the sides of the pan. Use a spatula to scrape stray sugar crystals off the sides of the pan and into the boiling syrup.
Dip the spatula in clean water before using it to wash down the sides of the pan. This additional water should not have any effect on the final product.
You could also use a basting brush; or even a wet couple paper towels. You want to remove the sugar crystals from the side so that later they won't allow
any opportunity for a sugar 'seed' crystal to get into the inverted and potentially allow the cooking sugar to crystallize.

4
Reduce the heat: Reduce the heat to low or medium-low and allow the mixture to simmer lightly for 20 minutes to 2 hours. A simmer is the most tiny barely form of 'boil' with baby bubbles.
Do not stir the sugar mixture as it simmers. Stirring will encourage the sugar particles to clump together, which will increase the risk of crystallization and create a grittier final product.
Keep the temperature low during this part of the process. High temperatures can cause the sugar to caramelize, which could ruin the final product.
Regardless of how long you allow the mixture to simmer, it should reach a temperature of at least 236 degrees Fahrenheit (114 degrees Celsius) before you proceed any further past this step.
If you want the invert sugar to remain light in color, simmer it for a shorter period of time. To produce a rich amber color**, simmer it for a longer period.

**If you choose to simmer it beyond 30 to 40 minutes for a darker/amber color: watch the invert sugar syrup as it simmers. Once the volume decreases by one-third of the original volume, slowly stir in another 2 cups (480 ml) of water. This will prevent the invert sugar from burning in the pan.

5
After the invert sugar cools to room temperature, it can be used immediately or stored for later use.


CONGRATULATIONS! Now you just made a BIG ASS batch of invert sugar for use in your brewing mash concoctions. Your yeast will be happy!!

For those wondering, if you make this 'recipe' and invert your own sugar, take it to the amber color level and you've just made the British favorite sweetener Lyle's Golden Treacle. Get hold of some high quality, non-blackstrap molasses, like Grandma's (available in most stores), and mix some into your homemade amber invert and you've now made Lyle's Black Treacle (it's simply a mix of Lyle's Gold Treacle and high quality molasses).

if you do a search for "inverted sugar" with the google search there is a thread by freemountainhermit.
8 post down, by rad14701 there are 3 method of inverting sugar at different ratios.
I have used them several time with no difficulties.
they are a little less detailed and easy to replicate
sorry I just didn't link it, but my computer foo sucks.

Here's the 4lbs batch of inverted cooling; cooked up to 246F.

Per request..... making carmel without dairy for use in rum flavoring...

Wet Sugar Cooking Method

Many cooks believe this method offers greater control over the degree of caramelization, offering the option of stopping at pale gold, or take it all the way to a deep amber or even a mahogany color, for a pleasant burnt-sugar taste.

Step 1.

You can use the wet sugar cooking method for any caramel sauce recipe: simply add 1/4 to 1/3 of a cup of water to every cup of sugar in your recipe.

To make the caramel, pour the water into a heavy-bottomed saucepan. Add the sugar and heat over medium-high heat.

You can stir the pan to dissolve the sugar, but once the mixture comes to a boil, stop stirring: the agitation can promote crystallization, which will result in grainy caramel.You can also use a lid on your pan to speed up the boiling process, but once it's boiling, leave the lid off: all of the water needs to evaporate before the sugar can start to caramelize.Step 2.

The water is boiling off and the sugar is just beginning to color.

Step 3.

You don't want to walk away during this step, because sugar changes from golden to mahogany brown very quickly, so watch it constantly once it begins to color. (It's also a good idea to have ice water nearby, just as a precaution. Sugar burns are extremely painful, so be careful when working with caramel.)

Step 4.

When you get to a nice medium caramel color, pull the pan from the stove and pour the caramel into silicone ice cube trays. It hardens quickly but will dissolve in your spirits.

You're a PEACH butterpants! I'm ya huckleberrah, thank you kindly.

You recall the face of your father.

butterpants wrote:Per request..... making carmel without dairy for use in rum flavoring...

Wet Sugar Cooking Method

What distiller_dresden said!

badflash wrote:

Pikey wrote: (+1) - I don't even bother dissolving the sugar - just tip it in straight from the packet - That was good enough for many years of winemaking, so I figure it's good enough for a wash. The yeast eats it up fine.

I've not done this with sugar, but when I make mead I only dissolve a small amount of honey and leave the rest on the bottom. There are lots of studies that show a slow supply is better than a bunch all at once. Let the yeast take it as it wants it. This is supposed to also reduce fermentation lag.

funny how sometimes the obvious things don't click.. i've read plenty about the positives of step-feeding the yeast - but always felt that's more effort that i'd like to avoid ha. now dumping all the sugar in and letting the yeast get to it when they're ready.. great idea... and if it's working well for you guys that's good enough for me to give it a shot.

badflash wrote:It is worth it for beer as cane sugar gives beer a cidery taste. Can't say if it makes a difference in distilling, no experience to compare. I was reading in a post someplace here that if you add the citric acid to your mash and boil it, it will invert the sugar. Can't find the post as my eyes were bleeding already. I can never seem to find stuff twice.

I think this totally is recipie dependant and like 90% hogwash.

My Duvel clone recipie is 30% cane sugar. It's stellar and not cidery at all.... and 30% sugar as fermentables is a monstrous amount for modern times.

I think the "cidery" dogma comes from times when kit and kilo was used, LME sat on shelves forever and people tried to make brew with like 50-70% sugar. No civilized person makes beer this way anymore.

Could be true. When I was getting started brewing back in 1980, you got a can of Blue Ribbon Malt and added 8 pounds of sugar. It came pre-hopped and had a packet of dry yeast. It was on the shelf at the grocery. Awful stuff, but still better then Bud.

badflash wrote:Could be true. When I was getting started brewing back in 1980, you got a can of Blue Ribbon Malt and added 8 pounds of sugar. It came pre-hopped and had a packet of dry yeast. It was on the shelf at the grocery. Awful stuff, but still better then Bud.

Yep that's the old kit n kilo.... except kit and pounds doesn't exactly have the same ring for US folks.

I have inverted sugar before for wine making. I honestly didn't notice the difference in speed or ease of fermenting.

What I found to be a pain in the process is keeping the temp on the stove just at boiling for thirty minutes. I wonder if I put a large stock full of the sugar water in the oven at 210 and left it there for hours how that would workout. If it's process you don't have to babysit and there's a chance it helps, I might do it.

butterpants wrote:I think this totally is recipie dependant and like 90% hogwash.

My Duvel clone recipie is 30% cane sugar. It's stellar and not cidery at all.... and 30% sugar as fermentables is a monstrous amount for modern times.

I think the "cidery" dogma comes from times when kit and kilo was used, LME sat on shelves forever and people tried to make brew with like 50-70% sugar. No civilized person makes beer this way anymore.

Coors Labs did the research in the "Cidery taste in homebrew" about 15 years ago (Coors has always been very HB friendly) and their conclusion was, that it was a wild yeast that was the cause - not a high white sugar content...introduced by bad siphoning practices i.e. using your mouth to start the siphon. The wild yeast is our old bad friend...you guest it...Candida Albicans