Shady's Sugar Shine

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Royalwulf
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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

Post by Royalwulf »

He was answering my question in a round about way - glad he did, i will have a go
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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

Post by NZChris »

I've only tried it once and it was to clean up SSS.
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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

Post by artooks »

Batch 1: 1 liter Shady's Sugar Shine: ( Dap + Epsom Salt + Boiled Yeast ) + 0.70 grams citric acid / liter + 1 Gram CC / liter.

Day 0: SG: 1.070 - PH: 5.33
Day 1: SG: 1.045 - PH: 4.14
Day 2: SG: 1.025 - PH: 3.97
Day 3: SG: 1.007 - PH: 3.94

Batch 2: 1 liter Shady's Sugar Shine: ( Dap + Epsom Salt + Boiled Yeast ) + No citric acid + 1 Gram CC / liter.

Day 0: SG: 1.070 - PH: 7.50
Day 1: SG: 1.045 - PH: 4.52
Day 2: SG: 1.025 - PH: 4.36
Day 3: SG: 1.006 - PH: 4.33

Hi, Day 3 completed and it looks like using citric acid has no benefit in terms of the current gravity both batches has identical gravity values but PH is lower with Batch 1 where citric acid was used in the beginning. Batch 2 PH at day 3 is: 4.33 whereas in Batch 1 where citric acid was not used the PH was around 3.94 there is a 0.39 difference in gravity between the two batches, it looks like 1 gram CC / liter was quite sufficient to buffer PH, I will let you know once both of them goes dry, but using citric acid in not needed.and if you are going to use CC instead of shells, use 1 gram per liter. lets see if they will be able to go dry without adding more CC that is my aim, but at day 3 the PH becomes stable.
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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

Post by NormandieStill »

artooks wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 3:11 pm Batch 1: 1 liter Shady's Sugar Shine: ( Dap + Epsom Salt + Boiled Yeast ) + 0.70 grams citric acid / liter + 1 Gram CC / liter.

Day 0: SG: 1.070 - PH: 5.33
Day 1: SG: 1.045 - PH: 4.14
Day 2: SG: 1.025 - PH: 3.97
Day 3: SG: 1.007 - PH: 3.94

Batch 2: 1 liter Shady's Sugar Shine: ( Dap + Epsom Salt + Boiled Yeast ) + No citric acid + 1 Gram CC / liter.

Day 0: SG: 1.070 - PH: 7.50
Day 1: SG: 1.045 - PH: 4.52
Day 2: SG: 1.025 - PH: 4.36
Day 3: SG: 1.006 - PH: 4.33

Hi, Day 3 completed and it looks like using citric acid has no benefit in terms of the current gravity both batches has identical gravity values but PH is lower with Batch 1 where citric acid was used in the beginning. Batch 2 PH at day 3 is: 4.33 whereas in Batch 1 where citric acid was not used the PH was around 3.94 there is a 0.39 difference in gravity between the two batches, it looks like 1 gram CC / liter was quite sufficient to buffer PH, I will let you know once both of them goes dry, but using citric acid in not needed.and if you are going to use CC instead of shells, use 1 gram per liter. lets see if they will be able to go dry without adding more CC that is my aim, but at day 3 the PH becomes stable.
The citric acid prevents that hard pH swing between pitching and day 1. Your yeast will be happier (fewer congeners) if the pH moves less. I'd still add the citric acid even if the pH is stabilising after a couple of days because that way it stabilises earlier.
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BrewinBrian44
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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

I might try the citric acid next time around. Curious how it will impact the keeper yield.
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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

Finally did the spirit run of my 20 gallon batch of this recipe from the low wines I stripped to 38%. It was my first time running my new VM SPP machine, which was a bit of an adventure I outlined in a separate thread. All the bugs aren’t worked out yet, but I still got a tasty product.

I did conservative cuts, anything that had a smell or an off flavor went in the feints jug. My final yield was a half gallon of 95% hearts. After I get the hang of this column, I’m hoping to improve the yield.

I got a very clean final product thanks to this recipe. Not sure if it’s because this is a sugar wash, but man this stuff has a very sweet taste, which is quite nice. I also noticed it doesn’t have the typical burn some associate with sugar shine without inverting the sugar. Very smooth!

Thanks again Shady, I can definitely see why this landed in tried and true. Now I gotta make more!
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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

Post by shadylane »

Glad you like it.
I can get almost 3 quarts from a 20-gallon wash.
Watch out on the tails cut and change jars often.
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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

Post by artooks »

Batch 1: 1 liter Shady's Sugar Shine: ( Dap + Epsom Salt + Boiled Yeast ) + 0.70 grams citric acid / liter + 1 Gram CC / liter.

Day 0: SG: 1.070 - PH: 5.33
Day 1: SG: 1.045 - PH: 4.14
Day 2: SG: 1.025 - PH: 3.97
Day 3: SG: 1.007 - PH: 3.94
Day 4: SG: 0.999 - PH: 3.88
Day 5: SG: 0.995 - PH: 3.93
Day 6: SG: 0.993 - PH: 3.98

Batch 2: 1 liter Shady's Sugar Shine: ( Dap + Epsom Salt + Boiled Yeast ) + No citric acid + 1 Gram CC / liter.

Day 0: SG: 1.070 - PH: 7.50
Day 1: SG: 1.045 - PH: 4.52
Day 2: SG: 1.025 - PH: 4.36
Day 3: SG: 1.006 - PH: 4.33
Day 4: SG: 0.998 - PH: 4.26
Day 5: SG: 0.995 - PH: 4.30
Day 6: SG: 0.991 - PH: 4.36


I have finished this experiment as you can see all two batches has gone dry in 6 days maybe if I leave a day more they will both hit 0.990 we are slightly there. and I am really happy that I could achieve this with powdered calcium which is very convenient for me, the gravity is almost the same no significant change there, as for PH until day 4 PH gradually dropped and from day 4 it started to increase, I think it has to do with fermentation speed, as fermentation starts the wash becomes more acidic but at day 4 almost %90 of fermentation is over so it is basically finished and probably because of that each day the PH gradually goes up, but what I would like to ask you is, there is also no significant change in gravity so I am asking myself " Do I really need citric acid " probably not, so I would like to ask you why some people would like to start with citric acid ? They say that ok the environment is more suited around PH 5.3 for the yeast, but what I have found shows me that it is not the case, but I must add I do not know how it will end up after distilling ? ok the PH swing is larger in day 1 but does that really stress the yeast ? if it is so how could the yeast complete the fermentation in 6 days :)

By looking at these numbers, for the Calcium Carbonate, do you think 1gram per liter or 1.05 oz to 8 gallos is too much or is it ok.
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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

Post by NormandieStill »

artooks wrote: Tue Mar 01, 2022 8:41 am " Do I really need citric acid " probably not, so I would like to ask you why some people would like to start with citric acid ? They say that ok the environment is more suited around PH 5.3 for the yeast, but what I have found shows me that it is not the case, but I must add I do not know how it will end up after distilling ? ok the PH swing is larger in day 1 but does that really stress the yeast ? if it is so how could the yeast complete the fermentation in 6 days :)
What you have seen is that the yeast successfully ferments even when starting at pH 7, but without a qualitative taste test, you have no idea how many more congeners they made in that first 24 hours. It could be the thing that buys you an extra jar of hearts after distilling. If you already have the citric acid and the calcium carbonate, why not make the adjustment? I don't know what prices are like for you but here I bought a box of something like 500g of citric acid for a few euros at the supermarket and I'm probably good for a cubic metre of wash!
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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

shadylane wrote: Tue Mar 01, 2022 8:03 am Glad you like it.
I can get almost 3 quarts from a 20-gallon wash.
Watch out on the tails cut and change jars often.
I definitely threw out some jars from the middle of the hearts while I was testing some different power levels, which lost me at least a pint. Good feints for the next round!
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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

Post by artooks »

NormandieStill wrote: Tue Mar 01, 2022 9:45 am
artooks wrote: Tue Mar 01, 2022 8:41 am " Do I really need citric acid " probably not, so I would like to ask you why some people would like to start with citric acid ? They say that ok the environment is more suited around PH 5.3 for the yeast, but what I have found shows me that it is not the case, but I must add I do not know how it will end up after distilling ? ok the PH swing is larger in day 1 but does that really stress the yeast ? if it is so how could the yeast complete the fermentation in 6 days :)
What you have seen is that the yeast successfully ferments even when starting at pH 7, but without a qualitative taste test, you have no idea how many more congeners they made in that first 24 hours. It could be the thing that buys you an extra jar of hearts after distilling. If you already have the citric acid and the calcium carbonate, why not make the adjustment? I don't know what prices are like for you but here I bought a box of something like 500g of citric acid for a few euros at the supermarket and I'm probably good for a cubic metre of wash!

Thanks, well it is quite cheap both Citric acid and CC are very cheap, but what I am wondering is as long as they both went dry in 6 days, what is the purpose of using it, in the first 24 hours does it really contribute to make the taste better ?
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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

Post by NormandieStill »

Very possibly, but the only way to know for sure will be to test it. But can well imagine that that pH swing at the start, during the phase where the yeast are (probably) still budding, is likely to put them under some stress. If you were making whisky maybe leave it, but the end goal of your sugar wash is a clean neutral (I presume) so for a spoonful or two of citric acid I'd just do it.
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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

Post by artooks »

NormandieStill wrote: Tue Mar 01, 2022 12:27 pm Very possibly, but the only way to know for sure will be to test it. But can well imagine that that pH swing at the start, during the phase where the yeast are (probably) still budding, is likely to put them under some stress. If you were making whisky maybe leave it, but the end goal of your sugar wash is a clean neutral (I presume) so for a spoonful or two of citric acid I'd just do it.
Hi What is your starting PH ?
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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

Post by NormandieStill »

Given my tap water is around 7.5, it'd be that. But I've not made Shady's. I do have a batch of Wineo's POSW under my belt, but have moved onto wheat as my neutral source. That said I seem to recall that involved some citric acid and oyster shells and I never had a pH crash.
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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

Post by Archee72 »

First ferment down Shady, Cheers 👍
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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

Post by artooks »

Hi Everyone,

After experimenting in a small scale with powdered CC and citric acid, yesterday I did make a SSS with citric and Powdered CC, I adjusted the PH to 5.18 and after 6 hours and 15 minutes I checked the PH it went down to 4.11. With my tap water, I added Powdered CC 1gram / liter and the Citric Acid 0.70 gram / liter, all these values are in line with my small scale experiment, let's see how it will turn out in 24 hrs.

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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

Post by artooks »

Hi Everyone,

I did a second batch the same as the last one, In the first one I checked a little bir early, but in the first batch after 24 hours the PH was 3.98, and with this batch exactly the same 0.70 gram/liter citric and 1 gram CC / liter the starting PH was 5.27 and after 24 hours the PH was 3.95, as you could remember I did a small test batch without a buffer I would easily see a PH of 3 so I can conclude that 1 gram CC / liter is sufficient, because as the fermentation comes to an end it starts to go up. lets see how these 2 batches will end. I will report back.

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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

Post by artooks »

Hi,

In 4 days I have reached a Gravity of 1.000 and my PH is 3.91 in my last experiment it took 3 days to go from 1,000 to 0.990 but this clearly shows that Powdered CC also works as good as the shells, what I am wondering is how much does the citric has an effect on taste, I do not know if there is or even there is I highly doubt that I will find a difference but we will see.
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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

Post by artooks »

Hi,

I can confirm that Batch 1 total volume 30 liter ( 8 Gallon ) with 0.7 Grams citric acid / liter and 1 gram Powdered CC / liter went dry to 0.990 in 6 days with a final PH of 3.93. Batch 2 also follows a similar path to Batch 1. My initial Adjusted starting PH was 5.18. It looks like this way my fermentation finished a day early compared to my previous batches.
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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

Post by shadylane »

Thanks for the experiment using CC and citric acid to make a buffer. :thumbup:
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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

Post by artooks »

shadylane wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 6:22 pm Thanks for the experiment using CC and citric acid to make a buffer. :thumbup:
Yes it was quite interesting, today I am distilling my first batch, when I transferred the wash from the fermenter to the boiler, what I realized is that there was very little left in the fermenter, I guess using Powdered CC did not create too much leftover, I remember when I used sea shells they tend to dissolve and disperse in the fermenter, creating too much to clean, but must say this was quite easy, I just want to mention that this was my experience, maybe others have a different outcome, but I took the time and measured the lees in total there was 250 ml lees, so put of 30 liters, I received 29.75 ml wash in the boiler that is %99.16 efficiency. What I am really wondering is how the initial PH of 5.18 effected the taste I will find out.


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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

Post by Sporacle »

I did my first large batch of this today, total 150L.
I don't often calculate the cost of my washes or mashes but I thought I keep a record on this one.
I had to purchase everything for the recipe and I've broken it down to per kilo of sugar
For me including Sugar, yeast, DAP, multis, Epsom and shell grit I came in at 1.64 aud per kilo of sugar used, total cost for a 150 L wash was 45.80.
Compare that to Turbo using the high sugar which comes in at 2.05 and per kilo without whatever that twin pack stuff is that you add as well.
Obviously the finished volumes are different, took a total of 65 minutes to do the wash from start to pitch. Can't see how anything could be much more convenient :thumbup:
" you can pick your nose and you can pick your friends; but you can't always wipe your friends off on your saddle" sage advice from Kinky Friedman
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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

Post by shadylane »

Sugar shine is a cheap and effective recipe, It beats turbo hands down.
PUGIDOGS had a good idea for using boiled yeast as nutrients. :thumbup:

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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

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Sporacle wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:54 pm I did my first large batch of this today, total 150L.
I don't often calculate the cost of my washes or mashes but I thought I keep a record on this one.
I had to purchase everything for the recipe and I've broken it down to per kilo of sugar
For me including Sugar, yeast, DAP, multis, Epsom and shell grit I came in at 1.64 aud per kilo of sugar used, total cost for a 150 L wash was 45.80.
Compare that to Turbo using the high sugar which comes in at 2.05 and per kilo without whatever that twin pack stuff is that you add as well.
Obviously the finished volumes are different, took a total of 65 minutes to do the wash from start to pitch. Can't see how anything could be much more convenient :thumbup:
Your sugar is cheap then, paying up to $2/kg here
Taking a break while I get a new still completed....
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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

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CoogeeBoy wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:12 pm Your sugar is cheap then, paying up to $2/kg here
1.10 a kg at the moment :thumbup:
" you can pick your nose and you can pick your friends; but you can't always wipe your friends off on your saddle" sage advice from Kinky Friedman
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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

Post by SnuffyG »

So how would this equate for a one gallon recipe using DADY and Fermax?
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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

Post by Sporacle »

Shadys is for a 20 gallon ferment, divide by 20 and then pitch the yeast and fermax as per their instructions, Shadys works because of his rule "don't stress the yeast" and the large volume of nutrients provided by the recipe in the form of vitamins and yeast. Bakers is cheap and so is DAP, just try the recipe as is, it's in the tried and true for a reason :D
" you can pick your nose and you can pick your friends; but you can't always wipe your friends off on your saddle" sage advice from Kinky Friedman
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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

Post by Stonecutter »

First attempt at this and after about 10 days it has finished dry.
I did stray a little from the original recipe in that I partially inverted 30lbs of sugar in 5.5 gallons of water as I’m using a SS conical, for the first time, and didn’t want to chance any sugar getting trapped in the elbow at the bottom. I did NOT use any citric acid while doing so. Also, I pitched EC1118 instead of bakers yeast because my basement stays cooler this time of year and the added fermentation time made little difference to me. Other than that I followed to the letter.
After topping up I did notice the boiled bakers yeast smell the most before I closed the lid. (Thanks PUGIDOG)
Man, after she got going it had an incredible floral/fruity note coming off the airlock, almost smelled like champagne, possibly the EC1118. For sure a steady bubbler with no off notes at all. Damn shame this whole batch gets sacrificed to make way for new equipment. However, I now feel confident in making more sugar shine to fill the rigs with.
Thanks for the recipe Shady! :clap:
You damn well deserve a bottle for your contribution.
A shot in your honor will have to do for now
Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

Post by shadylane »

Stonecutter wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 1:07 pm

Thanks for the recipe Shady! :clap:
You damn well deserve a bottle for your contribution.
A shot in your honor will have to do for now
How about we both take a shot in memory of PUGIDOG.
Our view of the world is so much better, when getting to stand on the shoulders of giants. :thumbup:
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Re: Shady's Sugar Shine

Post by Stonecutter »

Pouring some Rum now

Here’s to the Great Ones
Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
-Thomas Paine
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