Peated Whiskey

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LordL
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Re: Peated Whiskey

Post by LordL »

Hi LordL. To start with, I’m not an expert so consider the source of this answer. ;-)

In the original batch that I fucked up, I added one liter of sweet water to eight liters of spirit that made my cut.

A few things led to my F up. First, I was taking a little wider tails cuts than normal. Lots of what I made during that period of time had heavier tails in them as I was learning how wide I could go and still like the spirit. Second, my sweetwater was taken too early in the run, I think. I was still seeing 2% ABV off of the still, and I think I should have run it down further, maybe 0%, before using that water. This is just speculation on my part, because I have not tried this a second time (yet).

I have made whiskey with a small amount of packing and some reflux. I don’t recall any issues with that, but I decided at some point just to stick with pot stilling for my whiskey and rum. I don’t do nearly as many batches as I used to, so now I focus on what I have proven to work well for me with more predictable results. That said, If you have a serious tails problem with a batch a little reflux and packing will help you get more good stuff out of it.

Best of luck. Let me know what you end up doing and how it turns out.

Otis
Thank you for clearing things out! Still reading on the subject and as you, I think it will be wise to take the forceful pot still approach, and be picky with my cuts. 10kgs of 35ppm malt, 4kg of 50ppm malt. Found some cobra scottish whiskey yeast with enzymes that breaks the last CH's in the fermenter. loads of water, I would rather try to get as low as i can on the water side, but I know its quite a stretch to go below 3liters per kilo malt. In the past I brew AG Beers, quite a lot, spirits is when the time gives me an opportunity (God it takes time!)
Will strip hard and to the 0.1% ~ish mark and then try to be brave and try to go as hard as I can on the spirit run as well. Me thinking that an empty column still isn't a pot still onion.. if it gets to smeared up, i'll just do "an Otis" and redestill the "bad jars" more slowly. Hoping to get those phenols over to the other side without to much of the bad stuff..
I'll keep you posted!
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Re: Peated Whiskey

Post by nsgibson »

so i know this is an older thread but still active so figured i'd share my experience. I did a few peated scotch runs 1-2 years ago, 60% peated barley and 40% regular distillers malt. My first run was 50/50 but didn't taste much peat so the next ones I upped to 60/40. Still didn't taste much peat. These were stripping runs only, to accumulate enough for a spirit run to then go on oak first used in my bourbon. Took a break for a year, things got busy. Decided last week to try a snort of the peated stripped product just because. And holy crap the peat was coming through strong!! The aging let those peat flavors come through! I will hold off changing anything until after the first spirit run and some aging to see result in final product. My overall message is that the peat flavor changed substantially with age in my experience. YMMV.
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Re: Peated Whiskey

Post by LordL »

nsgibson wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 2:20 pm so i know this is an older thread but still active so figured i'd share my experience. I did a few peated scotch runs 1-2 years ago, 60% peated barley and 40% regular distillers malt. My first run was 50/50 but didn't taste much peat so the next ones I upped to 60/40. Still didn't taste much peat. These were stripping runs only, to accumulate enough for a spirit run to then go on oak first used in my bourbon. Took a break for a year, things got busy. Decided last week to try a snort of the peated stripped product just because. And holy crap the peat was coming through strong!! The aging let those peat flavors come through! I will hold off changing anything until after the first spirit run and some aging to see result in final product. My overall message is that the peat flavor changed substantially with age in my experience. YMMV.
Wow! Sounds like great news, cracking the peat code step by step!
How did you store the low wines? in an air tight glass jar? Dark place?
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Re: Peated Whiskey

Post by higgins »

This topic has been a good read. I'm glad you bumped it, LordL, so that it came up as an active topic. It just so happens that I'm in the middle of my 4th single malt. I just found this thread and see that a lot of us have differing results. I thought I'd share what I've done.

SM#1: 6.5% peat. Stripped only to 41% ABV collected (before I knew better by becoming a member here), very wide cuts approx 58%-78% ABV, aged in glass at 125p with previously used bourbon sticks (used for 3 months), now 2 yrs old.

SM#2: 100% Golden Promise malt (Highland style). Stripped to 28% ABV collected. Added feints from batch 1. Narrower cuts approx 64% to 77% ABV, aged in glass at 125p with previously used bourbon sticks (used for a year), now 1 1/2 yrs old.

SM#3: 11% Peat. Stripped to 26% ABV collected. Added feints from batch 2. Cuts approx 57% to 74% ABV, aged 6 months at 125p in a twice used 5L barrel (brandy), then moved into a prepped* BMOB, now 1 yr old

SM#4 is 40% pale malt, 20% each peated, vienna, munich. My second fermentation is about finished so I'll be stripping it soon. I don't have feints from SM3 to add, but I'll definitely save these feints separately for further single malts.

*prepped BMOB: Put a pint of 60% neutral in a Med Char 3 BMOB, set it face down for a month, then empty it, to simulate a 'used' barrel. I reserve the word BadMo for barrels made by BadMotivator ... and use BMOB - Bain Marie Oak Barrel - for ones that I made.

I think I'll break them out and proof down for a taste test, also comparing with a few commercial Scotches I have. More later.
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Re: Peated Whiskey

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higgins wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 3:30 pm This topic has been a good read. I'm glad you bumped it, LordL, so that it came up as an active topic. It just so happens that I'm in the middle of my 4th single malt. I just found this thread and see that a lot of us have differing results. I thought I'd share what I've done.

SM#1: 6.5% peat. Stripped only to 41% ABV collected (before I knew better by becoming a member here), very wide cuts approx 58%-78% ABV, aged in glass at 125p with previously used bourbon sticks (used for 3 months), now 2 yrs old.

SM#2: 100% Golden Promise malt (Highland style). Stripped to 28% ABV collected. Added feints from batch 1. Narrower cuts approx 64% to 77% ABV, aged in glass at 125p with previously used bourbon sticks (used for a year), now 1 1/2 yrs old.

SM#3: 11% Peat. Stripped to 26% ABV collected. Added feints from batch 2. Cuts approx 57% to 74% ABV, aged 6 months at 125p in a twice used 5L barrel (brandy), then moved into a prepped* BMOB, now 1 yr old

SM#4 is 40% pale malt, 20% each peated, vienna, munich. My second fermentation is about finished so I'll be stripping it soon. I don't have feints from SM3 to add, but I'll definitely save these feints separately for further single malts.

*prepped BMOB: Put a pint of 60% neutral in a Med Char 3 BMOB, set it face down for a month, then empty it, to simulate a 'used' barrel. I reserve the word BadMo for barrels made by BadMotivator ... and use BMOB - Bain Marie Oak Barrel - for ones that I made.

I think I'll break them out and proof down for a taste test, also comparing with a few commercial Scotches I have. More later.
Wow! Exiting! Remember how respective white dog tasted? :)
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Re: Peated Whiskey

Post by Renhoekk »

der wo wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:25 pm Swedish Pride,
A normal tails cut point for a commercial double potstilled peated Malt is 60-65%abv in the parrot.
I ducked in here to say this too. The “peat smoke” compounds come over later in the run. When you’re stripping, aim to take the run right down to 10–15% ABV at the offtake at least. Scottish distilleries go much lower, but that’s also for tax reasons. Either way it ensures that a lot of peat compounds come over into the low wines.

On your spirit run, aim to go down to at least 60% ABV. Again, the peaty Scottish producers tend to take the latest tails cuts in the industry for this reason.
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Re: Peated Whiskey

Post by SaltyStaves »

With commercial producers, deeper tail cuts are only one factor. After the cut is made, the tails (which are coming over with peat-heavy water left in the boiler) is diverted to the feints receiver.
This potent, low abv liquid is recycled into the next batch of low wines where it ups the peat concentration in the hearts of the subsequent batch.

I've only made one run of peated single malt that didn't have peated feints. My first batch..
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Re: Peated Whiskey

Post by Canuckwoods »

When doing a peated run I always collect through a coffee filter into my jars it really helps to get right into the tails. I get a lot of brown gook by the end. Every 250 jars get a new filter.
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Re: Peated Whiskey

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Canuckwoods wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 2:55 am When doing a peated run I always collect through a coffee filter into my jars it really helps to get right into the tails. I get a lot of brown gook by the end. Every 250 jars get a new filter.
You get brown gook out of the late spirit run?
And that brown stuff is what you don't want to have i presume? :)
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Re: Peated Whiskey

Post by LordL »

SaltyStaves wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:49 pm With commercial producers, deeper tail cuts are only one factor. After the cut is made, the tails (which are coming over with peat-heavy water left in the boiler) is diverted to the feints receiver.
This potent, low abv liquid is recycled into the next batch of low wines where it ups the peat concentration in the hearts of the subsequent batch.

I've only made one run of peated single malt that didn't have peated feints. My first batch..
Have you noticed the peat just increasing to a point where you have to stop collecting feints for a while?
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Re: Peated Whiskey

Post by SaltyStaves »

LordL wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 4:48 am Have you noticed the peat just increasing to a point where you have to stop collecting feints for a while?
I haven't. Then again, I'm not one to shy away from peat. The higher the concentration, the better. If I want a less peated peaty single malt, I can always blend down.
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Re: Peated Whiskey

Post by OtisT »

You guys are making me want to crack open those barrels to see how their doing.
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Re: Peated Whiskey

Post by LordL »

SaltyStaves wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 12:53 pm
LordL wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 4:48 am Have you noticed the peat just increasing to a point where you have to stop collecting feints for a while?
I haven't. Then again, I'm not one to shy away from peat. The higher the concentration, the better. If I want a less peated peaty single malt, I can always blend down.
Absolutely, I was just wondering if it was possible to oversaturate it to a degree that would make the tongue crawl up and take suicide.

So, it seems really hard to overdo the peat, even when collecting generations of tails and from mashes of 100% peat malt. Tricky stuff! Thanks for all the help! Hoping to get started with new equipment in may, but the prepwork is at least as fun!
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Re: Peated Whiskey

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LordL wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 4:46 am
Canuckwoods wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 2:55 am When doing a peated run I always collect through a coffee filter into my jars it really helps to get right into the tails. I get a lot of brown gook by the end. Every 250 jars get a new filter.
You get brown gook out of the late spirit run?
And that brown stuff is what you don't want to have i presume? :)
Yes out of the late spirit run, The brown stuff is all the oils that give the tails their off flavour I find that by using the filters I get the good flavours from the late run but leave the off ones in the filter.
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Re: Peated Whiskey

Post by LordL »

Canuckwoods wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 1:20 am
LordL wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 4:46 am
Canuckwoods wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 2:55 am When doing a peated run I always collect through a coffee filter into my jars it really helps to get right into the tails. I get a lot of brown gook by the end. Every 250 jars get a new filter.
You get brown gook out of the late spirit run?
And that brown stuff is what you don't want to have i presume? :)
Yes out of the late spirit run, The brown stuff is all the oils that give the tails their off flavour I find that by using the filters I get the good flavours from the late run but leave the off ones in the filter.
This will end up on the must try tip. Any shortcuts to the right flavour will be tested! :)

Many thanks!
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Re: Peated Whiskey

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So I just finished a run of 100% peated barley I will be getting rid of some of the heads but as of tonight can't find any of the other jars that I will not be using and I took the run down to 20%
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Re: Peated Whiskey

Post by Canuckwoods »

filters.jpg
The last filter is the upper left the first is the lower right its hard to tell but they all have some discolouration.
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Re: Peated Whiskey

Post by VLAGAVULVIN »

OtisT wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:55 pm Yes, the sweet water I am referring to is taken off of the still very late in the spirit run.
There's one dude who adds the sweet (peaty) waters of the previous runs to his subsequent ferments. Since the hobby is still legal in my unfortunate country, this dude participates in all kinds of homecrafters' fests. And he often wins awards there. That was just my small copper coin into your piggy peaty bank here.

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Re: Peated Whiskey

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Canuckwoods wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 1:24 pm filters.jpg
The last filter is the upper left the first is the lower right its hard to tell but they all have some discolouration.
This just seems to good to be true! :D Thanks!
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Re: Peated Whiskey

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VLAGAVULVIN wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 9:54 pm
OtisT wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:55 pm Yes, the sweet water I am referring to is taken off of the still very late in the spirit run.
There's one dude who adds the sweet (peaty) waters of the previous runs to his subsequent ferments. Since the hobby is still legal in my unfortunate country, this dude participates in all kinds of homecrafters' fests. And he often wins awards there. That was just my small copper coin into your piggy peaty bank here.
Maybe it's time we collect all the tips into a large collected "Peaty tips thread"? :)
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Re: Peated Whiskey

Post by higgins »

higgins wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 3:30 pm
SM#1: 6.5% peat. Stripped only to 41% ABV collected (before I knew better by becoming a member here), very wide cuts approx 58%-78% ABV, aged in glass at 125p with previously used bourbon sticks (used for 3 months), now 2 yrs old.

SM#2: 100% Golden Promise malt (Highland style). Stripped to 28% ABV collected. Added feints from batch 1. Narrower cuts approx 64% to 77% ABV, aged in glass at 125p with previously used bourbon sticks (used for a year), now 1 1/2 yrs old.

SM#3: 11% Peat. Stripped to 26% ABV collected. Added feints from batch 2. Cuts approx 57% to 74% ABV, aged 6 months at 125p in a twice used 5L barrel (brandy), then moved into a prepped* BMOB, now 1 yr old

I think I'll break them out and proof down for a taste test, also comparing with a few commercial Scotches I have. More later
I'm currently running my 1st strip on my 4th Single malt.

While sitting beside my still, I sampled my 3 single malt whiskeys along with Grangestone, a 12 yr highland, and Glenrothes, a 12 yr speyside. all were at 80 proof.

#1 had a light peaty nose along with a slight sweetness to it. It compared well with the speyside

#2 had a mildly sweet grain aroma, and compared well with the Highland

#3 has a bit more of a peaty nose than #1, but more oak and less sweetness. It also tasted somewhat young.

I have to say that I got less bite and more smoothness in mine than in the 2 commercials. But the complexity isn't there yet.

Again, #1 was 6.5% peat and it came thru in the final product. #3 was 11% peat and it came thru slightly stronger than #1.

There were no special steps taken to preserve the peaty character.
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Re: Peated Whiskey

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higgins wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:04 am
higgins wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 3:30 pm
SM#1: 6.5% peat. Stripped only to 41% ABV collected (before I knew better by becoming a member here), very wide cuts approx 58%-78% ABV, aged in glass at 125p with previously used bourbon sticks (used for 3 months), now 2 yrs old.

SM#2: 100% Golden Promise malt (Highland style). Stripped to 28% ABV collected. Added feints from batch 1. Narrower cuts approx 64% to 77% ABV, aged in glass at 125p with previously used bourbon sticks (used for a year), now 1 1/2 yrs old.

SM#3: 11% Peat. Stripped to 26% ABV collected. Added feints from batch 2. Cuts approx 57% to 74% ABV, aged 6 months at 125p in a twice used 5L barrel (brandy), then moved into a prepped* BMOB, now 1 yr old

I think I'll break them out and proof down for a taste test, also comparing with a few commercial Scotches I have. More later
I'm currently running my 1st strip on my 4th Single malt.

While sitting beside my still, I sampled my 3 single malt whiskeys along with Grangestone, a 12 yr highland, and Glenrothes, a 12 yr speyside. all were at 80 proof.

#1 had a light peaty nose along with a slight sweetness to it. It compared well with the speyside

#2 had a mildly sweet grain aroma, and compared well with the Highland

#3 has a bit more of a peaty nose than #1, but more oak and less sweetness. It also tasted somewhat young.

I have to say that I got less bite and more smoothness in mine than in the 2 commercials. But the complexity isn't there yet.

Again, #1 was 6.5% peat and it came thru in the final product. #3 was 11% peat and it came thru slightly stronger than #1.

There were no special steps taken to preserve the peaty character.
Great info! Thanks!

Yeah, to compare with commercial, side by side makes me always stunned by the amount of heads going in. Sometimes I wonder if the just take everything after a small fores and hope the angels will take the light stuff fast. Tails seem to change over the years in the barrel though.
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Re: Peated Whiskey

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Funny while touring Glenora Distillery in Nova Scotia last summer I had to laugh at the tour guide. First he told us the mashing process rinced the sugar from the grain. And then when it was time to taste their single malt he gave us the cockamamie story about the wild apples giving the taste to the weisky from their roots in the water and the blossoms in the air. I took a taste and all it was was a really bad heads cut, but I could buy a bottle for $150.
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Re: Peated Whiskey

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[media][/media]
Canuckwoods wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:13 am Funny while touring Glenora Distillery in Nova Scotia last summer I had to laugh at the tour guide. First he told us the mashing process rinced the sugar from the grain. And then when it was time to taste their single malt he gave us the cockamamie story about the wild apples giving the taste to the weisky from their roots in the water and the blossoms in the air. I took a taste and all it was was a really bad heads cut, but I could buy a bottle for $150.
🤣
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Re: Peated Whiskey

Post by higgins »

I did the spirit run on my SM4 single malt last week - 40% pale malt, 20% each munich, vienna, and peated malt. US05 yeast.

11 gallons low wines @ 28%, ran at about 1.5 LPH until last jar collected was 9%. It was a 12 hour run netting 48 12oz jars. Once it was down to 60% I began collecting thru coffee filters as Canuckwoods recommended, but I only changed the filter every 3 or 4 jars. NONE of the tails jars were cloudy or had any film on top, and the last jar was loaded with peatiness.

It was a little tough doing the cuts, but I ended up keeping 17 jars of hearts (60-76%) and added the last jar (very peaty, but no bitterness or tails detected) at 9%. The keep smells and tastes quite peaty, and now I have about 1.5 gallons of peaty tails for the next run and about 1.25 gallons of heads for a neutral run.

I made an 8 qt BMOB using a head made from a used bourbon barrel stave, and after adding the last jar it only took 8 oz water to cut to 62.5% for the barrel.

On a side note, I did the entire run without thermometers (I usually have one in the vapor path) or ABV measurements* cuz I wanted to see how good I'd be at cuts without knowing ABVs. I chose jars 14-31 without knowing ABVs. Then I went back and measured the ABVs on jars 12 thru 34 just to compare to my blind cuts, and I was pretty darn close - I narrowed the keep by 1 jar on the tails end. 12 and 13 were 76% but still fruity sweet with ethyl acetate, 14 was 76% but without that fruitiness. 31 was 58% and slightly tailsy, so I dropped that one. I'm pretty happy with the result - I just hope it ages well.

* I had predicted it would take 45 jars, so I did take ABV readings with a refractometer from then on and ended up with 48 before it dropped below 10%
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Re: Peated Whiskey

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higgins wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 5:35 am I did the spirit run on my SM4 single malt last week - 40% pale malt, 20% each munich, vienna, and peated malt. US05 yeast.

11 gallons low wines @ 28%, ran at about 1.5 LPH until last jar collected was 9%. It was a 12 hour run netting 48 12oz jars. Once it was down to 60% I began collecting thru coffee filters as Canuckwoods recommended, but I only changed the filter every 3 or 4 jars. NONE of the tails jars were cloudy or had any film on top, and the last jar was loaded with peatiness.

It was a little tough doing the cuts, but I ended up keeping 17 jars of hearts (60-76%) and added the last jar (very peaty, but no bitterness or tails detected) at 9%. The keep smells and tastes quite peaty, and now I have about 1.5 gallons of peaty tails for the next run and about 1.25 gallons of heads for a neutral run.

I made an 8 qt BMOB using a head made from a used bourbon barrel stave, and after adding the last jar it only took 8 oz water to cut to 62.5% for the barrel.

On a side note, I did the entire run without thermometers (I usually have one in the vapor path) or ABV measurements* cuz I wanted to see how good I'd be at cuts without knowing ABVs. I chose jars 14-31 without knowing ABVs. Then I went back and measured the ABVs on jars 12 thru 34 just to compare to my blind cuts, and I was pretty darn close - I narrowed the keep by 1 jar on the tails end. 12 and 13 were 76% but still fruity sweet with ethyl acetate, 14 was 76% but without that fruitiness. 31 was 58% and slightly tailsy, so I dropped that one. I'm pretty happy with the result - I just hope it ages well.

* I had predicted it would take 45 jars, so I did take ABV readings with a refractometer from then on and ended up with 48 before it dropped below 10%
Information money can't buy! Thank you! :)
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