1.108 SG from 2.5lbs/gallon?

[Antler24]

Is this possible? I've got another hero on Facebook that has some pretty off the wall opinions. He owns/runs a distillery thats won several awards and claims he's getting a starting gravity of 1.108 in a bourbon mash of 1500lb grain and 600 gallon water. I know most guys here use the 2lbs/gallon rule with a goal of 10% ABV so is this guy blowing smoke or what?


Just to give a little depth, he also says that consistent results can't be had with open fermentation, 8-10% ABV mashes aren't worth the effort, fermenting on the grain is bad, and when I asked him to recommend a yeast strain he suggested liquor-qwik turbo.

PS- Before anyone thinks I'm a Facebook bully, I didn't argue with this one, I pretended to be impressed and fueled the fire lol

[still_stirrin]

I used Brewer's Friend recipe calculator to estimate extraction. I plugged in 1500 lb. of American 6 row malt (PPG 35) and 600 gallons mash water which gave a potential OG of 1.088.

So, I'd say your "hero" was smoking something...or exaggerating his yield...or adding sugar, which he didn't disclose.

Miracles happen...but not usually in the mash tun.
ss

[Antler24]

I used Brewer's Friend recipe calculator to estimate extraction. I plugged in 1500 lb. of American 6 row malt (PPG 35) and 600 gallons mash water which gave a potential OG of 1.088.

So, I'd say your "hero" was smoking something...or exaggerating his yield...or adding sugar, which he didn't disclose.


Miracles happen...but not usually in the mash tun.
ss

I asked about the sugar and he says nothing added, "just 60% corn 40% barley and a good mashing technique"

[HDNB]

i'm with still stirrin.

i got a good mill, fresh grains a 1HP mixer all the heat and most of the cooling a guy could want. fresh enzymes and not that yeast has anything to do with gravity...but a nice yeast too.

i done COBB, Rye and straight 2 row at 2.5lbs per gallon and the best ive ever pulled off is 1.084 even augmented straight 2 row malt with enzymes just to say i got it all...and got 1.082

so i'm gonna say no chancy Chauncy.

maybe if he's putting 1500lbs into a total volume of 600 gallons and making porridge.

[Twisted Brick]

Just to give a little depth, he also says that consistent results can't be had with open fermentation, 8-10% ABV mashes aren't worth the effort, fermenting on the grain is bad, and when I asked him to recommend a yeast strain he suggested liquor-qwik turbo.

LOL!!! Dude's pullin' yer crank! With such a 'depth of knowledge', ask him what his 5-year business plan looks like. And if he's a contributing member of ADI. Name of his distillery?

[Antler24]

Just to give a little depth, he also says that consistent results can't be had with open fermentation, 8-10% ABV mashes aren't worth the effort, fermenting on the grain is bad, and when I asked him to recommend a yeast strain he suggested liquor-qwik turbo.

LOL!!! Dude's pullin' yer crank! With such a 'depth of knowledge', ask him what his 5-year business plan looks like. And if he's a contributing member of ADI. Name of his distillery?

Probably. Nit sure if I should post the distillery name here or not.

[bilgriss]

He's exaggerating.

[Antler24]

He's exaggerating.

Ya think? Lol he did mention he boils after mashing and removing the grains, so I think if truth be told he's mashing a much bigger volume and boiling down to reach that gravity.

[DuckofDeath]

Lets do the math

Corn = 33
2-row = 28

33X2.5 = 82.5
28x2.5 = 70

so even if he used 100% corn and got 85% efficiency his SG would only be 1.083
Now he may cook that down so it actually is less water. But at 2.5 pounds of grain to 1 gallon it just doesn't jive.

[Pikey]

Is this possible? I've got another hero on Facebook that has some pretty off the wall opinions. He owns/runs a distillery thats won several awards and claims he's getting a starting gravity of 1.108 in a bourbon mash of 1500lb grain and 600 gallon water. I know most guys here use the 2lbs/gallon rule with a goal of 10% ABV so is this guy blowing smoke or what?


Just to give a little depth, he also says that consistent results can't be had with open fermentation, 8-10% ABV mashes aren't worth the effort, fermenting on the grain is bad, and when I asked him to recommend a yeast strain he suggested liquor-qwik turbo.

PS- Before anyone thinks I'm a Facebook bully, I didn't argue with this one, I pretended to be impressed and fueled the fire lol

Bring him on here to tell us about it !

[Antler24]

Is this possible? I've got another hero on Facebook that has some pretty off the wall opinions. He owns/runs a distillery thats won several awards and claims he's getting a starting gravity of 1.108 in a bourbon mash of 1500lb grain and 600 gallon water. I know most guys here use the 2lbs/gallon rule with a goal of 10% ABV so is this guy blowing smoke or what?


Just to give a little depth, he also says that consistent results can't be had with open fermentation, 8-10% ABV mashes aren't worth the effort, fermenting on the grain is bad, and when I asked him to recommend a yeast strain he suggested liquor-qwik turbo.

PS- Before anyone thinks I'm a Facebook bully, I didn't argue with this one, I pretended to be impressed and fueled the fire lol

Bring him on here to tell us about it !

I did! He says he's been a member for years as Mrwhiskeymaker, but don't log in often because it's the same old newbie questions over and over.

[bitter]

Even at 100% your only possible to get about 1.100 max

I normally get low to mid 1.080's with 2.5 lbs corn per gallon when things work pefect.. High 1.070's other times.

[zapata]

2.5 pounds of pure white sugar + 1 gallon of water = 1.096

Pretty damn good mash technique to make more sugar outta grain than from sugar.

Just calculate 1500 pounds sugar in 600 gallons, post a pic and walk away. Dumb fucks is dumb fucks. Ain't worth worrying over. Dumb ass probably "owns" a distillery, read:he invested a couple g's in his brother in law's distillery, and ain't never got his hands dirty in his life.

Just let irrelevant people be irrelevant unless you have a cape and your super power is purging the idiots off facebook. In which case, good luck, 73% of the US population is on facebook. Think of your average idiot, the half of the world dumber than them are all on facebook.

Edit, totally plausible scenario for the non-working partner to get confused about. It's a 600 gallon total capacity mash tun, fed 1500 pounds of grain to make a 1.108 concentrated mash which is then diluted in the fermenters with cooling water. All he knows about yeast is before his partner went pro, he mentioned using turbos... maybe just let the dude save face? Or fuck it, call him out, nobody who knows so little about booze ought to be reppin for a craft distillery.

He got a website? Can you find the real distiller that works there? Email them the exchange, anybody actually running the still would be so embarrassed they'll shut the guy up for you.

[Fraser]

Just my 2 cents. Agreed those numbers don't add up. It's not easy to consistently get better than 85% efficiency. Yes, it can be done of course. Some may do it, but in a business it usually isn't worth the extra time and effort to push it. Time is very precious when you're paying for the electric or gas, keeping the lights on.

And they may be out there somewhere, but I've never heard any reputable distiller in business talk about using turbos yeasts. It's just too much time, money and general bother to clean up a spirits that may have developed off flavors. Particularly if you're in business and like I said, your time is your money, using turbos yeast is just generally not something used. Lots of fancy pants ales yeasts that are super expensive, sure.

[Antler24]

I took a screenshot of the sugar calculator and posted, and said "so your telling me there's more sugar in your lb of grain, than in a lb of sugar" to which he replied "Yes, there is more available starches in this non-GMO corn than cane sugar."



Good God man lol

[DuckofDeath]

Please find out what his distillery is so we can avoid it!

[still_stirrin]

He says he's been a member for years as Mrwhiskeymaker, but don't log in often because it's the same old newbie questions over and over.

Must have been a different website because a membership username search does not return any member by that name here.

Obviously, his “word” is more than somewhat suspicious. I don’t trust anything he’s said....
ss

[zapata]

Yeah, screw saving face, what's the distillery?

[OtisT]

Just an observation: The OP says 1500lb grain plus 600 gallons of water. That means the final volume will be much greater than 600 gallons, and the OG would be even lower than 10:80. A lot of calculations on this thread assume a wash volume of 600 gallons. Just pointing this out. Maybe he meant 1500 lb with water added to make a 600 gallon ferment? This still will not produce the OG he is suggesting. So it could be even more ridiculous than that Facebook dude suggests.

Edit: . Oops. I see Zapata already pointed this out.

Otis

[Antler24]

He says he's been a member for years as Mrwhiskeymaker, but don't log in often because it's the same old newbie questions over and over.

Must have been a different website because a membership username search does not return any member by that name here.

Obviously, his “word” is more than somewhat suspicious. I don’t trust anything he’s said....
ss

I searched him as well and didn't find anything. I was pretty disappointed too, I was hoping for several threads of all you guys pointing him in the right direction and him being too stubborn and constantly defending his stupidity, lol

Just an observation: The OP says 1500lb grain plus 600 gallons of water. That means the final volume will be much greater than 600 gallons, and the OG would be even lower than 10:80. A lot of calculations on this thread assume a wash volume of 600 gallons. Just pointing this out. Maybe he meant 1500 lb with water added to make a 600 gallon ferment? This still will not produce the OG he is suggesting. So it could be even more ridiculous than that Facebook dude suggests.

Edit: . Oops. I see Zapata already pointed this out.

Otis

Yeah I asked him to clarify that before even starting this thread and he clearly states it was 1500lb grain into 600 gallons of water. Either way it was bogus.