Single Malt Brew

[punkin]

Just doing an experiment on my hijacked barley. I believe it to be malted, but i'm pretty sure it's been treated somehow (heated?) after that. If i understand the theory correctly, malt barley (or any other malted grain) should already have the conversion done of the starch to sugar by the actual process of germination?

Therefore, the carefull mashing at 65 degree c should not be nessercary?
Or is the mash process still nessercary for converting the sugars into simpler sugars with the gluco part of the grain?


Just trying an experiment now to see if there is any malt at all in the barley.. (it sure tastes malty) or maybe it is already mixed at the correct ratio with unmalted barley ?

Got this stuff while it was en-route to a beer brewery so i don't know anything about it besides looks and taste and that it won't convert my corn


I've brought 32 litres (8.5 gall) of water to 75 degrees C (170 F) added 7 kilo (15 pounds odd) of ground suspectedtobemalt barley which brought it back to about 67 degrees C (152 F)

I'll let it steep for an hour or two in my BOP with the lid on, then do an iodine test.

[Dnderhead]

The malt you want with "enzymes" is light golden color and would be crunchy -- it is more efficient to convert at 65 c but not necessary

[punkin]

That's what it looks like D.

I've just done an iodine test (at 1 hour) it's at about 64 C now and the iodine showed about the same browny colour that the straight iodine shows. There's no black or purple, just a golden brown?

Is that what i'm looking for?

Can i do a potential SG with my hydrometer by cooling some and taking a reading?

Ok, tried it and got a pot SG of 1045.

Looks like it'll convert itself anyway, so it IS malted. Just has none of the diastic power of the brew shop stuff....

[Dnderhead]

This is starch -----

[Dnderhead]

this has bin converted----

[punkin]

It's all good and getting better D, just checked OG again and it's up to 1054.

Should give me somewhere tween 7 and 8 %.


Should i add some DAP or has it got all it needs just with the barley?

[Dnderhead]

I do not use any thing in mine just the grain ,corn is hard to convert not shore but seems that more starches keep coming out but maybe more starch in it than I thank
and needs more enzymes than other grain?

[gitchegumee]

Malted barley is always kilned (heated & dried to about 4% moisture) after steeping & germination. You can tell if it's been malted by chewing some. Malt will have a soft interior, raw barley will be very hard. Malted barley still needs to be mashed. Depending on the diastatic power of the malt, you may add up to 20-35% other non-enzyme containing starch--rice, corn, oats, wheat, potatoes. These other starches must be cooked to gelatinize the starches to make them available for the barley malt enzymes to work. There are different cooking times & temperatures depending on the grain/starch. Rice is easy, corn is more difficult. If using corn, crush it to "grits" and cook it till soft. Add to your barley malt when you add the hot water. One hour at 60-65C should degrade the starches to simpler sugars. Malted barley has all the nutrients that a good fermentation needs. Adding a significant fraction of other starches will skew this, so you may wish to add DAP and possibly some zinc if your non-malted fraction is high. I hope this helps. Cheers!

[Dnderhead]

I thank you could do some more reading Iv made malt at 50--200lbs at at a time it does not need to be heat dried as a mater of fact it does not have to be dried at all called green malt (quite spicy) and you need between 10-20% malt (barley malt)to grain unless malt is deactivated (by heat-age) and you do not have to cook grain for it to work but much more effective Iv made malt out of many different types of grains and it all worked some better than others

[Dnderhead]

this is wheat in proses--------<a href="http://s303.photobucket.com/albums/nn14 ... 010039.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn14 ... 010039.jpg" border="0" alt="spruted wheat"></a>

[punkin]

Does indeed Gitchy, although the popular amount of non malted adjuncts i've read here is up to 90%.

Might try another corn brew at 50/50 after this one is done and see what happens








BabyStepsForNowPunkin

[trthskr4]

Well Punkin does that answer the question thoroughly? I'm having trouble with my malted barley converting my corn and have been following your questions and posts about yours. I had even worried that not keeping mine refridgerated caused problems. Even started using double or so on my cooked corn mashes up to 35% malted. After this post I'm back to thinking it's my mashing techniques. It's wheat harvest season now so I'm gonna try to get a few bushels of fresh wheat to make a wheat whiskey and I'll try the corn again later.

[Dnderhead]

This is finished---wheat air dried-------<a href="http://s303.photobucket.com/albums/nn14 ... 010041.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn14 ... 010041.jpg" border="0" alt="malt"></a>

[Dnderhead]

Ill try this again---

[Dnderhead]

That's better this is finished air dried wheat malt----

[Dnderhead]

this is my malt mill can do 200+ lbs a hour ( depending on grain) --------

[punkin]

Well Punkin does that answer the question thoroughly? I'm having trouble with my malted barley converting my corn and have been following your questions and posts about yours. I had even worried that not keeping mine refridgerated caused problems. Even started using double or so on my cooked corn mashes up to 35% malted. After this post I'm back to thinking it's my mashing techniques. It's wheat harvest season now so I'm gonna try to get a few bushels of fresh wheat to make a wheat whiskey and I'll try the corn again later.

No but it's made a good start on my problems.

It's a breakthrough for me to be able to just prove a mash.
It's now a matter of experimentation to be able to see how far i can go with these grain combinations and still get conversion.

I have two different batches of malt barley, both ahhhh... liberated...
One from Joe Whites Malt Plant (suppossed to be destined for Tooheys New, and the other from a brewery truck in Qld.

I've got a stack of just about every grain here to test out (save Rye, which is not freely available round here) so i could use Steam rolled barley, corn, Wheat etc to try out my malt.

Will keep posting in this thread on results.







ExcitedAsAPervertWithASchoolBusPassPunkin

[Dnderhead]

I thank you will fiend all the rest of the grain will mash much more easier than corn why I do not know may be starch is more compacted -maybe more starch?
I usually cook corn add malt and dump all in fermenter it works out just takes longer (enzymes will work even with yeast working)

[punkin]

Yeah, i've tried it with the malt up to 20% mate, just doesn't seem to get the conversion. I'm still guessing it's my malt but plan to find out for sure, now i know it's not a technique problem.







WorstComesToWorstThere'sTheEnzymesPunkin

[Dnderhead]

Iv seen most distilleries when doing corn do thin mash --1 1/2 lbs of corn to gal of water but much more heat for boiler and a lot less yield per btu

[gitchegumee]

Granted that I'm coming from a brewing (beer) perspective. Given a certain diastatic power of your malt, it will convert lots of adjuncts if given enough time at the right temperature and the right pH. Depends on whether you want your sugars simple (mono, disaccaride), or complex (tri, tetra, polysaccaride) as to what these optimums are and when you have the correct sugar makeup for your wash. Dnderhead, I appreciate your extensive experience here. I've never used the sprout part of the grain (culm)--it's removed for brewing purposes. Isn't that what makes things spicy? If you use this grain immediately, then green malt is fine. It won't store well that way, however and must have it's moisture % lowered to keep.

[Dnderhead]

What im saying is that malt does not have to be dried and heat and age destroyers enzymes as what punkin has mite be deactivated (to an existent)threw shipping -storage and handling mite need more to do the same thing as fresh malt

[punkin]

What im saying is that malt does not have to be dried and heat and age destroyers enzymes as what punkin has mite be deactivated (to an existent)threw shipping -storage and handling mite need more to do the same thing as fresh malt

Gotcha D, but you gotta remember, if it's been deactivated (and i think it's possible) it's for a purposefull process of the breweries. The malt i have is hot off the press and came from 1) the biggest malt factory in australia, and 2) a truck on it's way to the brewery.

I dunno how the big boys do it, but i WILL settle this argument through demonstration.
I ground twelve more kilos up this afternoon, and will try it with steam rolled barley, progressively greater percentages till it fails the iodine test.

I'll report back to this thread over the coming weeks.

The only thing that's slowing me down is the downunder winter is fast approaching. Fermenter room in a heated enclosure is at a premium. But i want it sorted, so it'll be done

[Dnderhead]

maybe do small samples as in 1 liter as 1to1 -1to2 -1 to3 and so on and Iv never had problems with anything but corn seam to need much more malt/or time
for whatever reason and on beer, what Iv seen they use over 1/2 base malt so they have no issues with converting

[punkin]

It's taken off like a house on fire, the cap swelled so much yesterday that the drum overflowed with the pressure and i lost a few litres of wash. I had to top the drum up with a couple litres of water before i could even punch the cap down it'd dried that much and felt about a foot thick.

Got a lovely light vomit smell atm, so i guess there's some bacterial action too?

[trthskr4]

Figuring I'd test my malt I did an oat recipe that I had to do from memory as close as I could remember before the site went down yesturday. I used 10lbs. whole oats, 2lbs. of my 2-row, 5 lbs. sugar and 5.5 gallons water. Boiled the water put the oats in a 8 gallon cooler and poured the boiling water over the oats let the temp get to 160* and tossed in the 2-row and covered overnight. This morning the OG was at 1.025 after a little stirring, added in the sugar and got it up to 1.05 let it cool and pitched dry yeast. Over the course of the day it puked through the airlock and filled up the top of the fermenter and is violently bubbling away spitting like crazy. Also got a light vomit smell. It sounds like we have a similar problem Punkin. I'm gonna get me some enzymes and try that with corn next and say to hell with the 2-row and corn together if that works.

[Dnderhead]

Hy punkin how much malt to grain you end up with? it probably has infection but dont worry it will work off Iv had some like that especially corn it all came out in the end

[punkin]

Hy punkin how much malt to grain you end up with? it probably has infection but dont worry it will work off Iv had some like that especially corn it all came out in the end

It's all malt barley Dunder. 15lbs in about 9 gallons.