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Hello all,

I have five gallons of fresh dunder left from my last molasses rum run. I would like to put it to good use. Since molasses is the most expensive ingredient that I am using. I was thinking that I would try the following recipe:

2 gallons fresh dunder
12 pounds brown sugar
1 ounce DAP
1 tablespoon yeast nutrient
Baker's yeast
Spring water topped up to 6 gallon total volume

I would use some type of calculator to adjust my starting gravity (brown sugar) to put me somewhere around 10% potential alcohol.

Has anyone used just dunder and brown sugar to create a wash? I am hoping to get some more molasses flavor from the dunder without the addition of more molasses. Seems worth a try.

Thoughts anyone?

Thanks,

JB

Hey JB. What you're suggesting will definitely work. The generic brown sugar you can buy at most stores is actually white sugar to which they add back a small amount of molasses. So essentially you're ending up with a low molasses wash.

If it we're me, I'd probably up the dunder content and try to maximize the flavor. In which case close attention to the ph would be a good idea, as it'll be more acidic.

Thanks for the response Expat. Should I up it to 50% or higher?

Ultimately it's up to you, nothing to loose.

I've done as high as 75% as an experiment, and the taste was very good imho. After three generations of adding molasses it was really thick with a coffee and black licorice aroma. Unbelievable.

As mentioned though. Be prepared to bring the pH back up as it gets really acidic after it's been through the boiler. A good quantity of oyster shell (calcium carbonate) in the bottom, and check the pH before you pitch.

If you get a animal feeds store in your area go there and ask how much it is to fill a 5 gallon bucket with molasses
Thats alot less expensive then buying Cosby molasses from the bulk store

I haven't found a feed store around here that carries molasses. I might need to drive further into the country. I did find a unsulfured fancy molasses for $15 a gallon. The Golden Barrel black strap molasses I used was closer to $20 for a gallon. I definitely want to find a lower price.

If you have access to webstaurant.com, set up an account.
The blackstrap is 25 ish per 5 gallons. I always buy 4 to justify the shipping.

Good luck with the rum!

JeeterBee wrote:The Golden Barrel black strap molasses I used was closer to $20 for a gallon. I definitely want to find a lower price.

https://www.goldenbarrel.com/product/go ... llon-case/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

has it for $26 for 4 gallon jugs, plus $15 shipping per box, so that's $10/gallon. Maybe shipping is different depending on where you live related to Pennsylvania. Still double the webrestaurant price.

I heard about this place somewhere .....

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/search/molasses.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Pretty good pricing, plus they have all sorts of good stuff.

Well, I did a dry run for a 5 gallon bucket of blackstrap molasses.

Shipping sucks !!!!!!!!!!!!

$52 and change with shipping. I guess that ends up just over $10 a gallon.

I got a 2 1/2 gallon jug at Fleet Farm. Can't remember the price, but it was a lot less than $10 a gallon.

I just bought 15 gallons, 3x 5g buckets, of blackstrap from Golden Barrel on Amazon for $77 total with free shipping. Check it out!

Beerswimmer wrote:I just bought 15 gallons, 3x 5g buckets, of blackstrap from Golden Barrel on Amazon for $77 total with free shipping. Check it out!

Sounds like a great deal. Not seeing that on my amazon. Can you hit share on the product page and paste the link to the product in here?

I don't see where it says to share, but I just searched Amazon for "molasses 5 gallon" and it was the first result, $26 per pail.

Beerswimmer wrote:I don't see where it says to share, but I just searched Amazon for "molasses 5 gallon" and it was the first result, $26 per pail.

Ok, I see that, but for me it says:

Price: $26.00 ($0.04/Fl Oz) + $52.99 shipping

Weird

5 gallons of BS is pushing 70# (depending on brix), a nice deal indeed if you can get 200# of material shipped for free.

Jeeze, I swear I ordered 3 with free shipping......cancelled that order Yeah, it was 1 bucket with $52 shipping, that's worse than what I can get locally.


I guess ordering before my morning coffee isn't a good mix

That's a shame.

Beerswimmer wrote:Jeeze, I swear I ordered 3 with free shipping......cancelled that order Yeah, it was 1 bucket with $52 shipping, that's worse than what I can get locally.


I guess ordering before my morning coffee isn't a good mix

Too bad. I was really hoping you were on to something. I’m less than 2 hours from where the Golden Barrel warehouse in Pa. Maybe I should rent a truck and load up. I find the 1g bottles pretty convenient to use and only slightly more expensive than the buckets. Much more convenient than a 5 g bucket. I pour out the molasses and put some hot backset in it and shake it to get it all out.

This thread is way off track, but their blackstrap is very nice and buttery, not nearly as sour as some I’ve tried. I love it, wife uses for cooking too. We put it on waffles. To get it back on track, my brown sugar rum was a totally different thing than molasses. Came out like a normal sugar wash, just slightly brown colored. Molasses is like fermenting crude oil.

MtRainier wrote:, my brown sugar rum was a totally different thing than molasses. Came out like a normal sugar wash, just slightly brown colored. Molasses is like fermenting crude oil.

Not supprised MtRainier . Brown sugar is refined white sugar with just enough Mollases mixed through it to darken it .

Check online at Cabela's. A couple weeks ago I got 3 one gallon jugs of Evolved Habits jugs ($7.99) plus $5 shipping. I could have got a few more jugs for $5 shipped, but didn't need the extra molasses.

JeeterBee wrote:Hello all,



Has anyone used just dunder and brown sugar to create a wash? I am hoping to get some more molasses flavor from the dunder without the addition of more molasses. Seems worth a try.

Thoughts anyone?

Thanks,

JB

HI , YES it works , and i think that it has enough nutrients , in my experience i discovered it accindentally when i put together the dunder (fresh) with the "wash" left after having siphoned it into the still , the yeast was still alive and it started work without add anything...( so i thought there are still "sugar" to convert ) i added more sugar et voilà !!!

there are alot of example about in this forum

one difference between add molasse Vs sugar is that sugar doesn't add more flavor , only alcol...

cheers

AlChemE wrote:Check online at Cabela's. A couple weeks ago I got 3 one gallon jugs of Evolved Habits jugs ($7.99) plus $5 shipping. I could have got a few more jugs for $5 shipped, but didn't need the extra molasses.

Just noting, that's not blackstrap molasses, it's feed molasses. There are three grades, baking/supreme (places call it different things), blackstrap, and feed.
The high grade molasses has over 3000g sugar per gallon, typically 34-3800
The medium grade, or second run, blackstrap molasses has around 2200 +/- 300g of sugar per gallon.
The lowest grade, and last remnants of the 'molasses' process from sugar cane processing, is feed grade, it's typically 1400 +/- 200g of sugar per gallon.

Feed molasses is also typically including propionic acid as a preservative; this can be a plus or minus. Propionic acid is a carboxylic acid, or fatty acid, and is one half of the formula/process that creates flavor and smell esters in rum that are so sought after. A feed molasses wash would theoretically be higher in esters, therefore, than other molasses due to the propionic acid addition. The down side is it is NOT as flavorful (good or yum flavors) as other grades of molasses, and is almost always labelled 'not for human consumption'. This is fine since you're fermenting it, but you need to add sugar, and in my personal opinion feed molasses would best be left as a portion of a planned wash, as opposed to the sole source of molasses 'flavor' in the wash.

You can taste and see the differences between high grade and blackstrap molasses, beyond just the 'sweetness'. High grade is almost fruity and punchy, blackstrap is heavier and bold, less sweet, and 'denser' with more non-fermentables that raise brix and gravity but not sugar content for potential ABV. Feed molasses smells musty to me, and lacks the character of the other two grades, in its raw form, and its evident when you're using it that you wouldn't want to 'consume' it as you could blackstrap or baking/hq molasses.

On to the thread/topic - fermenting from dunder as your sole wash volume can create a very high gravity, and it might be better to ferment around 80-85F to stress the yeast less than it would be around 92F (where I run my ferments). You may need to over pitch as well, and you will need to keep a careful watch on PH as others have mentioned, because dunder is very acidic and it will want to drop way down as it ferments 'again' (being used, cooked wash). As others also mentioned, oyster shells in the bottom are a good way to keep PH up around 5.0 throughout the ferment, as they will self-correct and dissolve as PH drops, but stop once it's around 5.

distiller_dresden wrote:As others also mentioned, oyster shells in the bottom are a good way to keep PH up around 5.0 throughout the ferment, as they will self-correct and dissolve as PH drops, but stop once it's around 5.

I don't know where you got pH 5 from, but I've never seen any actual science to support calcium carbonate buffering anywhere close to that. If you get caught out and let a wash go alkaline, you will probably kick the barrel over rather than run it.

distiller_dresden wrote:This is fine since you're fermenting it, but you need to add sugar, and in my personal opinion feed molasses would best be left as a portion of a planned wash, as opposed to the sole source of molasses 'flavor' in the wash.

Much of the worlds rum is made from feed grade Molasses, its simply a by product of the sugar industry that needs to be disposed of somehow. Feeding it to animals and making rum from it are probably the two most used methods of disposal.
The stuff we get here in Australia ferments out just fine without the addition of extra sugar.
Very few commercial distilleries would pay the extra for the more refined versions of molasses.

Saltbush Bill wrote:

distiller_dresden wrote:This is fine since you're fermenting it, but you need to add sugar, and in my personal opinion feed molasses would best be left as a portion of a planned wash, as opposed to the sole source of molasses 'flavor' in the wash.

Much of the worlds rum is made from feed grade Molasses, its simply a by product of the sugar industry that needs to be disposed of somehow. Feeding it to animals and making rum from it are probably the two most used methods of disposal.
The stuff we get here in Australia ferments out just fine without the addition of extra sugar.
Very few commercial distilleries would pay the extra for the more refined versions of molasses.

May be true, but i think equipment is playing a big role in the production of rum. I used feed molasses, fortified with a bit of sugar and the the resulting distillate was so powerfully flavoured it was unpalatable. quadruple distilled it was still very strong, far too much molass to drink white. It did however age out on oak nicely after 2 years and was pretty good on it's 3rd birthday.

my last rum was a very small portion of blackstrap and white cane sugar and is significantly better young. still a very strong molass at 2 x distilled. I think it will age out to be nicer sooner. obviously no where near as robust.

as a side note, the still puked about halfway through the run. it added a nice bit of dunder to the final blend...but piss me off it took two full loads of whisky wash to wash out the golden hue of that puke. apparently i should have broke out a caustic bath for the still and PC.

HDNB wrote: I used feed molasses, fortified with a bit of sugar and the the resulting distillate was so powerfully flavoured it was unpalatable.

There is the difference , different people like different sorts of rums and have different tastes, you obviously don't like heavy flavored rums, many do though.

HDNB wrote:quadruple distilled it was still very strong, far too much molass to drink white.

Very few people in this country drink white rum, It is almost always oaked and aged. I guess that's another reason for differing opinions and tastes.

HDNB wrote:It did however age out on oak nicely after 2 years and was pretty good on it's 3rd birthday.

Age and oak hearts only and you will find it mellows more quickly, it wont take 3 years to come good.

In short there is no right or wrong way to make Rum....its up to individual taste.

Agreed SBB. what i was saying is a rum factory with a boiler and double retorts is likely better equipped to produce rum from heavy molasses than I, with my single pot still.
(plus they be way smarter and had more practice.)

The answer is in cuts and then in blending after aging, you don't have to take only one cut from a pot still run. I often do two different cuts, wide and narrow.

If intensity is a problem for you, you can dilute it with neutral, which is effectively what you do if you add sugar to the ferment.

Another trick I've used is to make a 'rum grappa' using dunder, lees, heads, tails and sugar to make a lightly flavored rum for blending, making essences for blending, experimental fast aging projects, etc..

HDNB wrote: what i was saying is a rum factory with a boiler and double retorts is likely better equipped to produce rum from heavy molasses than I, with my single pot still.

Four perferated plates in a column get a good result, Ive never tried to make all molasses rum using a pot still.

All molasses rum from a pot still is fine as long as you are patient, have good quality molasses, and don't expect it to be ready in months.

I have just produced a stockfood & sugar rum that is very nice white with only a few weeks of aging and I'm sure that the origin of the molasses has a lot to do with how well it turned out, terroir, cane variety and all that stuff.

As part of the same series of ferments, I'm now producing rums that won't be ready any time soon.