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Anyone have experience with using oak that is toasted only, not charred (for whiskey, corn/barley)? I have not been able to read anything substantial about it. Seems there is always the charring after the toasting on the posts I have read. I am 100% sure it has been done, I just have not found a read on it. Just looking to hear results and technique to achieve those results.

Thanks

There is a good chart on toasting temperatures and times to garner different flavor profiles . Small batch folks here tend to balance charred and uncharred sticks in their jars for ageing .

Are you talking toasted oak chips? I have used medium toast American white oak chips with good results. I use 1/4 cup per quart and let them rest for a month or so. My first chips gave a nice color, oak char taste with a nose and finish of vanillia My last batch I purchased from the same supplier didn't provide the sweetness and vanilla taste. Different batch I guess. I will buy in small quanities from now on and will try different suppliers.

WithOrWithoutU2 wrote:Anyone have experience with using oak that is toasted only, not charred (for whiskey, corn/barley)? I have not been able to read anything substantial about it. Seems there is always the charring after the toasting on the posts I have read. I am 100% sure it has been done, I just have not found a read on it. Just looking to hear results and technique to achieve those results.

Thanks

You may have read through these already, but these are the ones I have bookmarked under the file "Aging".


viewtopic.php?f=4&t=50348

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=70639

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=67268



Although my aging experience is limited, I conducted a test that had various percentages of char on a number of toasted sticks. There was quite a variation in the taste of handles that had two 1/2' x 1/2" x 5" sticks inside, with 4, 6 and 8 sides charred. I really liked the bottle with 6 sides charred. Unfortunately, all of the sampling material (standard corn, rye, barley bourbon) has all but been consumed.

this is an excellent experiment with results by boisblanc boy

viewtopic.php?t=48480

IMO, for bourbon you'd want a bit of char, for Scotch it's not essential, I do find the a small bit of char goes a long way though

HDNB wrote:this is an excellent experiment with results by boisblanc boy

viewtopic.php?t=48480

Thanks. I asked him about his opinion on the toasted but not charred. He only commented that he liked DT/DC best.

Twisted Brick wrote:
You may have read through these already, but these are the ones I have bookmarked under the file "Aging".


viewtopic.php?f=4&t=50348

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=70639

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=67268



Although my aging experience is limited, I conducted a test that had various percentages of char on a number of toasted sticks. There was quite a variation in the taste of handles that had two 1/2' x 1/2" x 5" sticks inside, with 4, 6 and 8 sides charred. I really liked the bottle with 6 sides charred. Unfortunately, all of the sampling material (standard corn, rye, barley bourbon) has all but been consumed.

Thanks. I read 1 of the 3. I appreciate you pointing the others out. I really need to get better at searching with HD Google Search.

From what I can gather, I may run my white dog through some charcoal and just age on toasted oak (Medium). I don't think I would like the smoky flavor from the char, but running through charcoal (tennessee whiskey style) will help smooth out similar to what char does. The toasted oak will impart the sweet and vanilla notes I tend to like.

Thanks all.

if you like sweet and fruit, try a heavy char soaked in sweet sherry. take the chunks out and then do the whskey with them. the smoke will be left (for the most part) in the sherry.
or get an ex-bourbon barrel and use that. the first spirit in seem to take on the most smoke.

you could even wash the char with heads/tails/feints to get the smoke out.

the char also adds caramel and coffee notes and color that you don't get with toast only.

I also have had some success with apple wood, goes well in a all corn or as an adjunct in Irish style whiskey

WithOrWithoutU2 wrote: I may run my white dog through some charcoal and just age on toasted oak (Medium). I don't think I would like the smoky flavor from the char, but running through charcoal (tennessee whiskey style) will help smooth out similar to what char does. The toasted oak will impart the sweet and vanilla notes I tend to like.

Running it through charcoal will more than likely take most of the flavours you want as well, French oak produces a sweeter spirt in my opinion, its too sweet for my liking but many enjoy it.
If it vanilla your chasing Still dragon were selling High Vanilla Dominos at one stage of the game.....not sure if they still do / are. Pretty sure a couple of folk from this forum bought and used some. Not sure now if they were French or American Oak.

HDNB wrote:and color that you don't get with toast only.

I keep seeing this said by various people on various forums.....I and the distillers I know must have weird arsed oak or something,
Ive yet to seen charred wood of any kind out preform toasted when it comes to colour.

Saltbush Bill wrote: Ive yet to seen charred wood of any kind out preform toasted when it comes to colour.

Thats been my experince too Salty
Toasted gets dark deep rich colour where as the char just gives a piss yellow colour

You guys have an experiment you can post? Here's a good one by MCH.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=64107&p=7468728&hilit=#p7468728

Nothing that involves charred oak versus toasted oak.

ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote:You guys have an experiment you can post? Here's a good one by MCH.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=64107&p=7468728&hilit=#p7468728

sorry to say i don't, I don't take notes and never meassure the oak i put in.
I've been planning to do a oak test for a bit but have yet to get around to it.
If i do and it's anyway useful I'll post it up

My most recent batch of oak toasting consisted of cutting up a couple staves into longish fat-finger sized pieces.
Toasted in oven @ 300*F for 7h and it only got to med-light darkness... I usually do 400*F for four hours and get a med+ toast then char some too so wanted to try something different...

I used these un-charred-medium-minus-toast-fingazz maybe six weeks ago in some wines which are bulk ageing and also in some grappa & agave spirits... Those are all at six or eight weeks now and definitely need more time to smooth out the wood which is very powerful now. I'm not going to drink it now and i'm sure as hell not gonna chuck it so that's one way to make sure you get more time on it I might take a piece or two out and dry/retoast at higher temp for a while to add some variety but am running these without char....

Cheers and good luck!
-jonny

Saltbush Bill wrote:

HDNB wrote:and color that you don't get with toast only.

I keep seeing this said by various people on various forums.....I and the distillers I know must have weird arsed oak or something,
Ive yet to seen charred wood of any kind out preform toasted when it comes to colour.

i would refer you to this post again by BBB. the photos plainly show that NTNC doesn't really color at all and DTDC is the darkest and reddest. Toast only leans more towards yellow, the reds seem to come in from the caramelization of wood sugars with char.

i followed along with my own experiment, though not as involved as BBB's at the time and got the same results as him. my preferences went to LTDC, and true to that my aging likkier tends to lean towards red. but it is smokey...that's the first flavour note i get from it, a hint of smoke. I char very heavily. prolly a 5 on the scale of 1-4, because i'm trying for smoke notes.
after the wood has been used once, the color of the next spirit leans more amber/yellow and the smoke note is not as easy to detect.
just my experiences and preferences, of course those will vary for all.

SBB, maybe the wood you are using is once used- or simply not charred enough to get the redder colors.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=48480

thanks to all for the notes on chasing the taste i'm looking for. it is greatly appreciated.