How vital is mash clarity for running in a pot still?

[Bearpig]

Howdy folks,

I'm just getting into the world of mashing. I've read dozens of threads on it but there doesn't seem to be a clear answer: some run cloudy mash, some run it on the grain, some aim for crystal clear. It's also confusing because a lot of people here are using electric immersion elements (for which I assume clarity is important or it burns onto the element).

Virtually all my experience is with fruit brandies and wine, mashing is totally new to me. I typically use a double-walled still and low heat to do my first run on fruit must/pomace runs, then subsequent spirit runs are usually just in a single-walled keg or pot still since there's no way to burn them.

I'm doing my first experiments with a corn mash, and my double-walled still is put away for winter at the cottage. So it will be distilled in a single-walled, thick-bottomed pot still heated on an induction plate.
I don't have a brewer's bag yet, so I was planning on straining it through a cotton pillowcase to remove large solids, then putting it outside overnight to cold crash it, then siphoning the top off the lees. Will this be enough?

Cheers

[Swedish Pride]

I run as dirty as they come.
I just squeeze the grain and fire up the still, i run a internal 5500w wavy camco, never had a scorch

[rubelstrudel]

Thats way more than I do. When the wash has finished I simply pour directly from the fermentation vessel into my boiler trying to avoid solids that has fallen to the bottom. I have done this with both grain wash and molasses wash. My boiler is a 70l pot with a 4kw immersion heater. I never really run it any faster than 3kw, due to breaker limitations, and I have never had any scorching on the element. The molasses wash gave me a kilogram or two of gunk on the boiler walls, and the heater element was also covered in some stuff, but not scorced. Perhaps my element is large enough to not get to hot per cm2.

[seamusm53]

While I filter the mash before distillation removing most of the spent grain and yeast, the liquid is far from clear. Hasn't been a problem but there is some cleaning of the heater element needed when done.

[jonnys_spirit]

I’ve had a couple scorches when leaving solids in the electric element fired boiler. Smoke comes out of the PC and it makes everything smell bad.

Now I run it through the paint strainer bags and mop bucket then rack into carboys. I let it sit for a week or two to confirm AF completion and the allow the sediment to drop and compact. I’ll rack off the seeiment using my vacuum pump which also degasses and prevents puking.

You can probably be fine if you just squeeze and strip but once you experience a couple scorches you might be more conservative about it.

One day I’ll get a thumper for the slop.

Good luck!
Jonny

[Bearpig]

Thanks!

Well, I just discovered that straining corn mash is the most horrifying thing on earth. It's like trying to strain vomit mixed with elmer's glue

So out of a 5 gallon wash I managed to strain 2.5 gallons which is now outside being cold crashed.
The remaining 2.5 gallons I just dumped into the boiler, going to try heating it up slower and stirring, and putting the head on the still only once its past 55 degrees C.
I realize two 2.5 gallon runs are pretty small but I figure I'd try smaller runs until I get the hang of this.

Then I'll have a direct comparison of running dirty vs clean, taste and potential burn-wise.

[Anyhowe]

Up to you as you can see above. Want it crystal clear with little to no effort? Just add some gelatin. 1/2 tsp dissolved in 1/4 cup water per every 5 gallons. Let sit for a few days.

[StillerBoy]

Just add some gelatin. 1/2 tsp dissolved in 1/4 cup water per every 5 gallons. Let sit for a few days.

In agreement on this one.. I just recently started experimenting with gelatin for clearing for both a sugar wash and grain mash, and it does clear better and faster than the two clearing used in wine process in the sugar wash..

As for having 2.5 gal of mash left, you will have to get a setup for pressing the liquid out the mash, as you are losing a good part of the mash, and doing it by hand will not do the trick..

Mars

[Bearpig]

Well the dirty batch is done. Ran 2.5G of the unstrained stuff, it looked like watery porridge. The little pot still is a tri-ply base on an induction plate, and I brought it up to about 55 degrees C while stirring, then put the head on and ran it at 1000W until below 10% ABV then turned it off.
I was concerned about the potential smell but there was just a slight smell like cornbread baking. I could taste a bit of smoky flavor in the distillate about a third of the way through the run so I suspected the bottom had burned a bit, but it wasn't too bad.
When I opened it up at the end of the run it smelled like vomit with a hint of burnt toast
On the bottom there was a layer of gummy crap that was golden brown like bread crust, and only a small burnt spot about 3-4" across. I was surprised how easily it cleaned off by just boiling water in it and scraping a bit with a wooden spatula (in comparison burnt fruit like pears is like trying to chip off enamel, and needs to be scrubbed for an hour).

We'll see what happens with the clean batch but to be honest I'm thinking of leaving these corn mashes until summer when I can run them in my jacketed still, or maybe I'll make a thumper.
I don't see how I could have run it any slower than 1000W, so if I want to run these in a single-walled still it looks like either I have to go through the nightmare of straining or deal with a scorched bottom.

[seamusm53]

it smelled like vomit with a hint of burnt toast .

I think you might have the skills to be a wine connoisseur/sommelier.

[metalsmith]

it smelled like vomit with a hint of burnt toast .

I think you might have the skills to be a wine connoisseur/sommelier.

I will second that. The “hint of burnt toast”. Is so hard to pick up.......

[Bearpig]

Haha.
I thought the backset from fruit was bad, this stuff is positively vile

[Bearpig]

So I ran both. I can detect a faint flavor/aroma of smoke from the batch I ran on the grain.
The other batch I ran strained and somewhat cleared (cold crashed it for a few hours then siphoned the top off the dregs and it was the consistency of yellow skim milk), and it turned out perfect.
Mixed the two batches and ran them through together a second time and I'm surprised, straight off the still this is smoother and cleaner tasting than any store-bought whiskey, and it's only going to improve with a few months of aging.

I'll definitely be doing this again, but it doesn't seem worth the hassle in such small batches and in such a small still. This was just a test batch and my first run with corn.
My straining technique needs work, and perhaps I vastly overestimated the yield of my feed corn, but in the end after running 20L through my still (10 clean, 10 dirty) I ended up with just under 2 liters of 47% whiskey, about 600ml heads and 750ml tails (yeah I know I made a generous hearts cut but I went by taste/smell and it was fine), plus the foreshots I discarded from each of the three runs.

But this experiment also taught me that while a small still (10L) isn't ideal for efficiency or cuts, as a companion to a larger still it's a great tool to have for doing test runs.

Thanks for all the help and advice,
Cheers!

[Swedish Pride]

i think you did get a great yeald.
40l usually gives me about 2l of 60% ish keeps.

you're right though 10l still is great for wetting your feet but it gets tiresome in the end.
Good thing there are plenty of well documented keg builds for you to take inspiration from

[Odin]

It's a trade-off that you wanna try to get the best of.

In general more grains in the boiler means more esterification and potentially more Maillardization. This can add like 30% more flavor to your drink, so its worth pursuing.

But the Maillard reaction only takes place when there are temperature differences in your boiler, so it benefits from a more direct / local heat source (contrary to a big and even heat distribution).

So you want dirty washes and direct/localized heating. But guess what? With organics present, especially with direct / local heating with temp differences, the risk of scorching increases dramatically

An induction plate may be an ok compromise, since it just heats the bottom. Not as local as submersion heaters, but more so than a double boiler design. But grains tend to sink to the bottom, increasing your risk of scorching. So ... if you want to continue on the grain distillation, maybe a bigger pot and a small agitator would help you out?

Hope this info helps.

Odin.

[Bearpig]

i think you did get a great yeald.
40l usually gives me about 2l of 60% ish keeps.

I did 'cheat' a bit, the was a kilo of sugar and half a box of old cornflakes in there in addition to the corn.

So you want dirty washes and direct/localized heating. But guess what? With organics present, especially with direct / local heating with temp differences, the risk of scorching increases dramatically

This is what I currently have, a 15 gallon oil jacketed still:

Or a simple single-walled beer keg boiler, or the mini pot still I just used.

I thought of trying a 30 gallon mash and two 15 gallon runs in the jacketed still in spring and seeing how that goes.

The modern style agitator like some are using on HD is a totally new idea to me, I'll look into it.
We have some oldskool stills being crafted here in the Balkans with a device for stirring them but they always seemed like a poor design to me (and note all the brass in this still , and they typically use rubber or silicone for gaskets). Most of these stills, and ones with screens on the bottom, seemed like just a way to avoid the complexity of crafting a jacketed still. Plus they're useless for grappa: thre is no way you can stir that crap.