Quick question/thought for making my final spirit run (rum)

swamp puppy · Post by **swamp puppy** » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:54 am

Here either tomorrow or Friday I will be doing my spirit run after stripping 20gal of rum wash (Four 5gal batches). Originally I was going to do 2 individual stripping runs for each of the last 2 batches and then combine all of my stripped rum (which should end up just over 2 gallons worth) back with 2 gallons of dunder from the last strip run...

Then something seemed a little redundant to me.. Why put back into the dunder what I just took out...only to run in out again? My question is, if I strip the first 5 gallon batch and load the still with the second batch, wouldn't it be just the same to add everything to that last batch and run it like a spirit run?

Also, I am keeping the dunder from each run to use in every next batch I make, so anything left behind from the stripping run will still be there to be captured later. Nothing is technically going to waste.

Post by **still_stirrin** » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:45 pm

You're just "thinning the herd".

Doing the strip runs pulls the good alcohol from the heaviest of the heavy crud in a molasses ferment. Adding back a little of the dunder (backset from the boiler) to the next strip will cascade a lot of flavor. Also, often the under (from the boiler) will be added to a "dunder pit" which will create its own set of unique flavors (and smells).

With 4 x 5 gallon washes for the boiler, you could add back some of the dunder (backset from the boiler) to a subsequent run (strip or otherwise) to increase the heavier flavors into your product.

Adding low wines to another strip run is sometimes called, "a 1-1/2 run" because you've essentially done a 2nd distillation on 1/2 of the 2nd boiler charge. Doing this will help with added flavor to an otherwise pure low wines run. It's somewhat a compromise from the "one & done" and the "strip + spirit" protocols, ie - "...a middle ground between light and shadows...", etc.

So, with your proposal of 4 strips collected to low wines and then run as a spirit run, you won't be "wasting" anything...just not augmenting the flavors often available in a molasses ferment. It all depends on how much flavor you want.

As a point of reference, the last "deer lick" molasses rum I did, I had to triple distill just to get the flavors down to where it was even drinkable. The deer lick molly had so much heavy oils in it that it was not palatable without at least 3 passes through the still...and one of those passes was through the reflux column too.

So, as I'm alluding here...there is no "right way" or "wrong way" to do the rum distillations. It just depends on what you've got and what you want. Experiment and learn. Nobody here should tell you "what to do" or "do it this way". You need to learn and know how you use your equipment and processes to produce the product you want. It ain't for me...it's yours!
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NZChris · Post by **NZChris** » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:54 pm

What is the abv of your low wines?

I've just done an experimental spirit run with uninfected dunder added and I can't say I thought the dunder added anything notable. I suggest that if you want extra distillable flavors from dunder, you should strip longer, rather than adding it to a spirit run. That said, if you have made the common newbie mistake of shutting down your strips at over 40% low wines, adding dunder would be better than adding water, but not as good as adding fresh wash.

swamp puppy · Post by **swamp puppy** » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:30 pm

NZChris wrote:What is the abv of your low wines?

I've just done an experimental spirit run with uninfected dunder added and I can't say I thought the dunder added anything notable. I suggest that if you want extra distillable flavors from dunder, you should strip longer, rather than adding it to a spirit run. That said, if you have made the common newbie mistake of shutting down your strips at over 40% low wines, adding dunder would be better than adding water, but not as good as adding fresh wash.

I ran them down to 40% and was going to take them just a bit further, but the still wasn't having any of that. It was pretty cold in my shop and that was pretty much where the run stopped "running" and turned into a slow dribble. I did a little sip from the middle of the hearts part of the run and it tasted decent enough at that point that I think (hope) a single spirit run should do it. I get some reflux action inside my tower so I think that helps out some.

NZChris · Post by **NZChris** » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:52 pm

All my rum strips finish at a slow dribble or drip. I always have a target abv and I'll do everything it takes to reach it, turn the heat up, stop any draughts, lag the still head, sit on my thumbs, whatever it needs.

swamp puppy · Post by **swamp puppy** » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:17 pm

NZChris wrote:All my rum strips finish at a slow dribble or drip. I always have a target abv and I'll do everything it takes to reach it, turn the heat up, stop any draughts, lag the still head, sit on my thumbs, whatever it needs.

I had read of a few people running them down to 20% and was going to give that a shot and see what happened being kind of the first go at it and all. 40% was where it ran out.. By lagging the still head I am taking you mean "lag" as in the insulation used on piping? I actually had to do that on the lower half of the column at the start just to get it going. It was a little cold out in the shop. Probably could have done it again at the end to get that last bit out. My hot plate was already maxed out for what it was going to do for a heat source and my extension cord was giving off some heat as well...so I wasn't going to do anything more in that department, but I was ok with 40 as that seemed to be the consensus target anyway.

At any rate.. It looks like this all might get tabled until next Wednesday as I just got home from work and checked the SG on both washes... 1.03 and 1.047 respectively with a little "life" still left in the ferment....So I either have to crash it now to run on Friday or just let it go and run it next week on Wed. I not actually sure where the "bottom" is on this as the black strap has a fair amount of un-fermentable things in it so I am skeptical it actually runs out to 1.0. I would have to look at my notes, but I think my last two batches both petered out just around the 1.03'ish line. I might just go ahead and pull that one out into the shop tonight and run it Friday and let the other one go.. 1.047 definitely has some work left to do.

NZChris · Post by **NZChris** » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:47 pm

By 'lag' I mean insulate with whatever is lying around my shed on the day.

I don't know that 40% is a consensus. It's a number I see bandied around a lot for various reasons, but I don't know that it's a low wines abv aimed for for any particular style of rum. I shut down at 40% for neutral sugar washes, but that is to get rid of flavor, not to capture it.

20% and less is more likely to be a target for someone intending to triple pot still a rum or whiskey, something that is not common among home distillers for time and cost reasons.

Don't be confused by stillers saying they stop at an abv when they really mean the abv off the still or at the parrot. That is very different to the abv of their total low wines, Newish Rum, whiskey and brandy pot stillers who are shutting down stripping runs at high YouTube & forum recommended output abvs are probably making the mistake of shutting down their stills while they still contain good alcohol and flavor.

swamp puppy · Post by **swamp puppy** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:14 am

NZChris wrote:By 'lag' I mean insulate with whatever is lying around my shed on the day.

I don't know that 40% is a consensus. It's a number I see bandied around a lot for various reasons, but I don't know that it's a low wines abv aimed for for any particular style of rum. I shut down at 40% for neutral sugar washes, but that is to get rid of flavor, not to capture it.

20% and less is more likely to be a target for someone intending to triple pot still a rum or whiskey, something that is not common among home distillers for time and cost reasons.

Don't be confused by stillers saying they stop at an abv when they really mean the abv off the still or at the parrot. That is very different to the abv of their total low wines, Newish Rum, whiskey and brandy pot stillers who are shutting down stripping runs at high YouTube & forum recommended output abvs are probably making the mistake of shutting down their stills while they still contain good alcohol and flavor.

Yeah I am catching your shade at my relative newness to what I am doing. That said boiling something to a vapor and then making that vapor back into a liquid isn't rocket science. I ran the seawater distillation plant on my Navy ship that made the freshwater for the whole crew. I work now in a varied chemical environment. I get the concepts. I took high school chemistry. Truth be told I could keep on my current path and probably do just fine. Actually that is looking like that anyway. I was just hoping someone might kick up a little extra something to cut the curve a bit.

40% is consensus as far as I have read.. and you posted earlier about hitting 40.

NZChris · Post by **NZChris** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:32 am

Boiling a mixture of various components with different boiling points and affinities for each other is closer to rocket science than is desalinating sea water

swamp puppy · Post by **swamp puppy** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:04 pm

NZChris wrote:Boiling a mixture of various components with different boiling points and affinities for each other is closer to rocket science than is desalinating sea water

Ya think? Truth be told turning sea water into potable water for an entire ship to survive on is a pretty extensive process. I think you over estimate yourself a bit. If you miss a cut in your run here or there..you get some funky thing that you can just do over. If you miss a run making a real thing you fecked an entire 500 person community.

I actually appreciated some of your advice. That is the reason I am on these forums. The idea that you would like to talk down to me like you are the holder of the secrets of the holy grail is undignified to say the least.

Am I relatively new to this? Yes. Have I done this before? Yes. I cut my teeth making all corn/grain runs. I just didn't post here about it. Rum is now my new thing.

I have a back ground in Nuclear engineering and know far more that is required for basically boiling beer and making booze. Again this isn't rocket science. There is at least a few dudes back in the day with one tooth and some shit they put together in their barn that made better shine than you, me, or anyone here. And they didn't know anything about ABV, or Specific Gravity.

So, I come here with questions as to maybe how to improve my process. I don't need a lecture from some high and mighty.

In other words. You don't have a clue what actual "rocket science" is and I actually have done real rocket science. I appreciate your input for what I am doing as you seem to know a bit about it. Anything rum run related you would like to share I am all ears.

Hellbilly13 · Post by **Hellbilly13** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:27 pm

I run my strip runs down to 10%, especially on rum. That makes my low wines end up between 35-40% which is perfect for the spirit run. You left a whole lot of rum flavor behind if you shut down at 40% off the still.

swamp puppy · Post by **swamp puppy** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:33 pm

Hellbilly13 wrote:I run my strip runs down to 10%, especially on rum. That makes my low wines end up between 35-40% which is perfect for the spirit run. You left a whole lot of rum flavor behind if you shut down at 50% off the still.

Yeah that is what I was thinking which is why I held back everything (dunder) from the run. It was really cold in my shop and nothing was coming out below 40%. I know there is still good stuff in there which is why I am rolling to my next batches. When I do my spirit run I am going to add back the left over from the stip. I think I should get that flavor back.

Hellbilly13 · Post by **Hellbilly13** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:39 pm

That’s what I would do if I were you. It sounds like you may also need a more powerful heat source if you are having that much trouble getting below 40%. I tried a hot plate at first and not only did I have trouble fully completing the runs, but it took forever.

swamp puppy · Post by **swamp puppy** » Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:47 pm

Hellbilly13 wrote:That’s what I would do if I were you. It sounds like you may also need a more powerful heat source if you are having that much trouble getting below 40%. I tried a hot plate at first and not only did I have trouble fully completing the runs, but it took forever.

I think you are 100% correct on me needing to up my heat source. I am currently running out my last two 5 gallon batches before I combine it all for the spirit run and I can see I am just not getting the bottom end out.

Upside is this run is my first run from my backset/dunder ferment and the quality coming out is noticeable. looking forward to adding this strip to the first for the final. I'll be keeping backset/dunder from this run for the next..but that may be awhile before I get to it again. I don't have total impunity. I have to time my ferments and runs.

Post by **DetroitDIY** » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:58 pm

Same thoughts as Hellbilly from me. When running a pot, I stripped down to 10-ish (I wasn't live adjusting for temps at that time, so I'm sure my variation was large), and double distilled as you're doing. I heated with a healthy propane burner, a hot plate sounds... miserable.

I did some poor fermenting on my first batch, ended up combining everything in oak, and it was good after 12 months and great after 18 months.

I now run a flute, and still pull down to about 10%... this time paying attention to the corresponding temps and adjusting my calcs on the fly. I'm one and done on the flute... have five gallons aging for about 3 months now... have yet to see how it's doing.

You're on the right path. Rum is great, and in my experience, forgiving.

DetroitDIY

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