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Rookie man right here, learning this thing. I'm currently doing ~6-gallon AG fermentations with a 4:1 corn:malt ratio and using 5g champagne yeast to start the party. I wanna cut back to 5-gallon runs -- can I still pitch the whole 5g yeast packet? I would assume so but thought I'd check with the Lords of the Likker.

PopcornJr wrote:AG fermentations with a 4:1 corn:malt ratio and using 5g champagne yeast to start the party.

I would have thought there would be better yeasts to use rather than champagne yeast for a AG recipe like that. Champagne yeasts are usually used for Neutrals, Vodkas and fruit based washes.
I doubt that the difference in yeast quantity will make much if any difference.

The amount of yeast can effect esterification, over pitching or underpitching both have an effect

If 5g is working fine for six, it'll be fine for five I'd say

From my experience it makes no real difference if you fluctuate by a few grams. I do all-bran batches to run for neutral and for a 6 gallon batch I will usually use 12Tbsp or 84g of yeast (bakers). I have tried using less out of interest, I did a run with 7g and it took an age to brew and needed a lot of additional help to brew but no noticeable difference in taste after distilling or in the smell or taste of the wash. You will be fine running the same amount for 5 gallon as 6.

I am getting a little lazy with my brews to be honest. When I started out I was rigorous with measurements, grams of this, cups of that and ml of that it has moved on to a bag of this, box of that as I realised that I was being silly with the specifics. I accidentally pitched my yeast with the brew at 56'c last night, I didn't mix the batch up after chucking in the cold water with the boiled sugar and all bran and the temperature at the top of the barrel that I measured with a probe was 35'c but then I pitched the yeast and stirred it and the hot mix from the bottom brought the temp right up, I didn't know until I put my brew controller temp probe in and all the alarms started going off. It is, however, busy bubbling away today so there seems to be A LOT of room for error when it comes down to the measurements!

On a hobby level I doubt that many people would taste the difference in the finished product when it comes to to much or not enough yeast being pitched. There may be a discernible different between the end products ....but is it better , worse or just different?
The difference would be even harder to pick in brown spirits that have been aged long term on oak, again they would just be different and whether the difference was good or bad would depend on the tastes of the individual drinking the spirit.

I’m running batches of bourbon mashes now and used a single pack of lager yeast to start it this time. I’m gonna see if I can keep this culture strong and going through all 9-10 13gallon batches. I’ll save enough from this first batch and repitch it into each new mash once I build the colony a little. Winter bourbon and the weihen stephan lager strain. One small packet. Hoping for some estery experiences

Cheers!
-johann

Saltbush Bill wrote:

PopcornJr wrote:AG fermentations with a 4:1 corn:malt ratio and using 5g champagne yeast to start the party.

I would have thought there would be better yeasts to use rather than champagne yeast for a AG recipe like that. Champagne yeasts are usually used for Neutrals, Vodkas and fruit based washes.
I doubt that the difference in yeast quantity will make much if any difference.

Thanks! What kinda yeasts would work better for me corn whiskre?

Bakers works great for me. Fleishman's, Red Star, etc...…. YMMV

.

Got a bulk food / restaurant supply store near you? There's a Red Star and another similar brand in a two pound vacuum brick bag of 'bread yeast' for $5. Get that. Put 1/4 in a 'weekly use' container on the shelf and the rest wrap tight and put in the freezer -- it will keep for a year that way.

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If amount pitched is large enough you are good. The colony will self adjust. The only thing you are trying to do is get the yeast to get to full colony size before a bacteria takes hold.

I was curious about this as well. If you were to err on one side or the other, what would it be? Less or more yeast? I would like to see what the consensus would be on this.

Personally I err on the extra side..

As a rule of thumb, I use 0.7 grams of yeast per liter of ferment. That's 2.8 grams per gallon. Plenty fast, but no grassy flavors coming over during distillation (I do on the grain).

Baker's yeast is great for grains and rum. It is usually grown on molasses and intended to work with bread, which is grain based, and at higher temperatures.

Odin.

That's good info, but I doubt anyone here will bust out the triple beam scale to measure anything to .7 grams. I would assume most people do what I do and just do fuzzy logic computations and eyeing shit. In which case at some point you're erring on one side or the other. So I'm trying to deduce which is the lesser of two evils: erring on light side, then the yeast has to multiply accordingly to compensate, or go heavy, which I'm not even sure of any negative side affects as I thought any extra yeast just consumes itself.. hence why I would err on that side of things.

0.7 gram per liter means that on a 30 liter ferment you use 0.7 x 30 grams.

Odin.

Okay, so you only ever use precise to the fraction of a gram measurements for everything you do. Got it.

How about for the rest of us who don't, would you make a recommendation if one was to err a half gram on the light or heavy side which way would be better/worse and why?

Say I'm making your recipe for 30 grams but I only have two 16 oz jars.. more than likely I would say "close enough" and just dump them both in.

Spiff,
I'm with Odin and the folks that like to measure the ingredients in a recipe. It allows the chef to repeat known wanted results. Some chefs have cooked long enough they don't need to measure because they can see and feel the proper amount of some ingredients to be added. There are advantages and disadvantages to both over and under pitching yeast. There is no clear answer to your question as everyone has different tastes and pursue differing outcomes. Depending on what your goal is you could pitch a known amount recommended, over pitch to achieve something else or under pitch to get yet another result. And then there's the other camp looking for "close enough". I guess the end results wouldn't really matter that much to that group.They can just dump the yeast in and wait for it to finish. Hope that helps...….YMMV

spiff wrote:Okay, so you only ever use precise to the fraction of a gram measurements for everything you do. Got it.

No one here owes you an education. Odin was nice enough to indulge your thoughts. Why don't you do 2 ferments, one a little under, one a little over, and report back to us with your findings? Unless that would be wasting your time when you can just grill other people for their conclusions.

I'm a fan of those that experiment and give back to the forum. Kinda paying it back where you can for the open door here to free wisdom.

Personally, I shake dry yeast directly into my mash right from the jar. I count three Mississippi's for every 5-25 gallons of ferment, and the speed and angle are determinant on the hieght of the barrel, and the wind velocity. Any fluctuation from this could skew the mark of perfection, and will go into the terroir of that batch of whiskey.

Do like I do or don't Won't effect my whiskey

spiff wrote:Say I'm making your recipe for 30 grams but I only have two 16 oz jars.. more than likely I would say "close enough" and just dump them both in.

Not only are those NOT "close enough" they're not even on the same continent.

Odin wrote:As a rule of thumb, I use 0.7 grams of yeast per liter of ferment. That's 2.8 grams per gallon. Plenty fast, but no grassy flavors coming over during distillation (I do on the grain).

Baker's yeast is great for grains and rum. It is usually grown on molasses and intended to work with bread, which is grain based, and at higher temperatures.

Odin.

I use champagne yeast for my apple brandy. That yeast is expensive and I am thrifty. I use about 0.063 gpl. Works for me. I don't get the fast 1 week ferments that many talk about here but patience is a virtue.

scale is kinda important here..

if i am fermenting a 145l wash at odin's 0,7 grams a litre then does anyone really expect 1,5g to make a difference if i round it down to 100g? does anyone really expect most people to be that exact?

conversely..

paddy1000111 wrote:From my experience it makes no real difference if you fluctuate by a few grams.

..a few grams could be 60% of the OPs yeast as stated. i really wouldn't recommend that as a swing..

for anyone who isn't finding what they need here the homebrew forums are a wealth of info on all aspects of over or under pitching yeast. then come back here and see what effects when distilling