Irish Whiskey Recipe ??

[Bombo80]

I am planning to do an Irish Whiskey, without having to do three different washes and blending the spirits together.

Here is what I am think of ...
For a 10 gallon wash
9 pounds of Maris Otter, Fawcett Pearl Malt, or a UK Pilsner Malt.
9 pounds Flaked Barley
12.5 pounds of Scratch Grains.

It looks like about a 2:1:1 ratio of corn to wheat and oats. The label doesn't say.

Hopefully getting about a 1.085 SG

Thoughts ??

[OtisT]

That’s pretty rich for a whiskey ferment. What you have is about 3 lb of grain per finished gallon of ferment, and most whiskey recipies call for about 2.25 lb per gallon. Your potential ABV as is would be 13.x%. Going that high can stress the yeast, and stressed yeast produce off flavors. (Happy yeast = Happy ferment.)

Just my opinion, but I would either back off on the grains to about 23 lb total, or make your ferment 13 gallons total for that amount of grain. That would put you at roughly 2.25 lb of grain per gallon of ferment.

Just a note of interest. It looks like there are soy beans in that scratch (hard to read that label.) I’ve never ferment soy beans, and wonder what that does for a ferment. I believe they are high in fat and low in carbs which maybe is why I don’t hear about folks using them. Just thought I would call this out to see if others know much about fermenting soy beans. Do they produce good/off flavor? Do soy beans produce more methanol like a fruit ferment does? I’d recommend you research the use of soy beans and se what you find.

Otis

[Bombo80]

Otis, It is soybean oil. I have read that others have just rinsed the grains and have not had any problems. It doesn't seem oily, so there can't be much there.

I will look at the end result after mashing. If it is too high, I will water it down to keep it in the 1.080 area. That should give me a 10% to 11% mash. 12 to 13 gallons should be no problem, since I have a 16 gallon setup.

Thanks

[Swedish Pride]

I did something similar for the same reasons, I found that more malt is better, I'd not go under 50% of malted grains these days. Its still nice with less malt its just not all it can be.

[kiwi Bruce]

A typical Irish goes along the lines of a lowland Single Malt Scotch and is as popular for that reason. Don't forget most commercial Irish whiskeys are blends. Pick a good low ester yeast, and as OtisT said...DON"T STRESS THE YEAST! (can't be stressed enough...I couldn't help myself ) You can even use up to 20% table sugar to cut back on the "up-front" malty taste, that is not typical of this style :- which is... light, slightly fruity and with a sweet caramel taste. Understand this is for your "typical" Irish BLENDED Whiskey, but there are many non-typical Irish Whiskey as well. It's what makes them so enjoyable to so many.
The "sweet caramel taste" comes from a very low toast on the oak, no heavy char here.

[OtisT]

Hey Bruce. Do you happen to know what temp of a toast is used for Irish whiskey style aging? I have been using 400 F for my oak toasting that seems to do nicely for my bourbon, though I know some who toast hotter than that. I think I need to try a cooler toast for this style, but I’m not sure how much lower that would be.

Thanks,
Otis

[kiwi Bruce]

I'll do a hunt for it in the morning...but your right, it's quite low.

[kiwi Bruce]

NOTE :- THIS IS FOR "THREE HOURS OF TOASTING"

It would appear that a toasting temperature of 340 to 380 F for 3 hours would give the oak flavor profile we would expect from a good Irish...any higher and you'll start to get the "Toasty, Almond and Acrid" flavors...needed for a single malt, not so much for an Irish.

[MichiganCornhusker]

Just my 3 cents, but I don’t like that toasting chart at all.

I find 90 minutes is long enough for toasting to penetrate a 1” square stick.

In my experience anything over 420f will start getting burnt and acrid quickly.
In fact, too much higher and the wood will damn near burst into flames on your quest for almond.

I also don’t care for flavors I get much under 370f, it usually just starts tasting woody to me.
I’ll say I’ve never tried anything as low as 250f, but in general I feel like that chart is pretty misleading.

Anybody else have experience that agrees with those numbers?

[kiwi Bruce]

"THREE HOURS OF TOASTING"
Unless this is for a whole barrel...it seems like a very long heating,

but what do I know...I use used bourbon staves, when I re-char them it's with a propane torch and we're not talking toast...It's char Baby CHAR!

[OtisT]

Just my 3 cents, but I don’t like that toasting chart at all.

I find 90 minutes is long enough for toasting to penetrate a 1” square stick.

In my experience anything over 420f will start getting burnt and acrid quickly.
In fact, too much higher and the wood will damn near burst into flames on your quest for almond.

I also don’t care for flavors I get much under 370f, it usually just starts tasting woody to me.
I’ll say I’ve never tried anything as low as 250f, but in general I feel like that chart is pretty misleading.

Anybody else have experience that agrees with those numbers?

400 F
I have done a lot at 400, and can confirm I get a decent toast and a whole lot of Vanilla. The chart seems accurate there.

480-500 F
I have tried higher temps 480-500 but did not like them. I was getting acrid smell from some, but not all of those. I was working with a small oven then and was having trouble getting the temp back up to 500 after opening it so some were lower temps. I think that explains why some were acrid and some not. Again, the chart seems good there.

360 F
I have done some fruitwood at 360. Can’t really compare this.

Time
I agree with your time. 90 minutes should be plenty to get through 1/2” of oak. I toast my oak on one side only (barrel heads) on a griddle. A 1500w hot plate with a 1/4” sheet of aluminum as the hot surface. It takes two hours for the toast to make it half way through a 7/8” thick QS oak board.

My experience is that time only impacts the depth of the toast, and not flavors.

I’m gonna do up a batch at lower temp next, and see how my rums like it, and will keep this in mind next time I’m making something Irish style.

Otis

[Irishgnome]

"THREE HOURS OF TOASTING"
Unless this is for a whole barrel...it seems like a very long heating,

but what do I know...I use used bourbon staves, when I re-char them it's with a propane torch and we're not talking toast...It's char Baby CHAR!

LOL
If using used staves I too char the hell out of three sides at a minimum. Usually, I char all four sides.
With aged oak or kiln dried, I've been happy with 380 Deg. for right around 90 minutes. I think you really need to take into account what your aging. For an Irish style, I'd go with 380 for at least 60 minutes and char one side.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,
Irish

[OtisT]

If using used staves I too char the hell out of three sides at a minimum. Usually, I char all four sides.
With aged oak or kiln dried, I've been happy with 380 Deg. for right around 90 minutes. I think you really need to take into account what your aging. For an Irish style, I'd go with 380 for at least 60 minutes and char one side.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,
Irish

I thought Irish style whiskey was aged on toasted but not charred wood? Am I mistaken? (I could be). Otis

[kiwi Bruce]

I thought Irish style whiskey was aged on toasted but not charred wood? Am I mistaken? (I could be). Otis

Yes your correct Otis, the goal for an Irish...is a whiskey that's very mild, quite pale, with a mild malt and oak balance...in order to get these results I believe ALL Irish whiskey is triple distilled, and only aged in toasted oak.

[Irishgnome]

OtisT & kiwi Bruce

It’s my understanding that a majority of Irish whiskey is aged in American bourbon barrels.
I guess the question to Bombo80 would be, what Irish whiskey(s) do you like most.
Follow what you know about that distillery’s traditions as much as possible and see what you get.

Best of luck Bombo80

Cheers.
Irish.

[Swedish Pride]

I thought Irish style whiskey was aged on toasted but not charred wood? Am I mistaken? (I could be). Otis

Yes your correct Otis, the goal for an Irish...is a whiskey that's very mild, quite pale, with a mild malt and oak balance...in order to get these results I believe ALL Irish whiskey is triple distilled, and only aged in toasted oak.

Not quite.

By and large, it's triple distilled, but there are some double distilled too.
There are even peated ones just to throw a proper curve ball.

ex bourbon barrels are whats used, so they are charred but the harshness of a newly charred barrel is gone as its once used.
some are finished in other casks cherry, port, stout, medeira etc.
the reason some of the irish whiskey is pale is just that it's been sitting in used barrels

[NZChris]

I wouldn't attempt to do an Irish style whiskey without triple distilling and without using traditional protocols that are currently frowned upon in this forum for safety reasons that are not compatible with the production of Irish Whiskey.

[kiwi Bruce]

ex bourbon barrels are whats used,

All used bourbon barrels sent to the British Isles are recooped, the American charring is removed, the barrel reassembled and refired...the degree of toast or char is at the request of the new owner...so you right...if they desire a heavy char, well that's what they'll get...a mild toast that's what they get.

[Swedish Pride]

never knew that, have you got a link where i can read more about it?

[Irishgnome]

kiwi Bruce,

I would like to read about this as well.
Can't seem to find any information on recooped barrels.
I found a video (https://youtu.be/Yer61iOwy84" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow) for Jameson Black Barrel, but they are re-charring the barrel after they scrape out the old char.
Please post a link if you have one.

Cheers,
Irish

[kiwi Bruce]

Yes, I'll have a look though my posts...may take a couple of days but I'll find it for you.

https://vinepair.com/articles/bourbon-t ... cooperage/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Swedish Pride]

Interesting read for sure, but to liken the Scotch to Irish whiskey isn't really factual.
Here is a much briefer article on how jamesson does it.
https://coolmaterial.com/food-drink/the ... ey-barrel/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[kiwi Bruce]

Irishgnome that video is showing one of the cooperages in Swedish Pride's link, that supplies Jameson...love the scene showing the guy ripping the old char out of the barrels, so they're recooping the barrels Stateside and shipping them over to Ireland...Are the cooperage's in the British Isles Union? That would be the only reason I could think of, to recoop them here and not there.