Home Distiller

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:03 am**

I have built my first pot still.
I will be using a propane burner to heat. I want to wrap the keg/boiler with insulation.
I did a search on boiler insulation and read thru pages of results. I did not see any suggesting the type of insulation for wrapping the keg/boiler using propane.
If someone could steer me in the right direction, it would be appreciated.
I have looked at hot water heater insulation, but it is plastic on the outside. I thought about HVAC duct insulation, but don't need a giant roll, or maybe I do for the next build. LOL
I have posted a couple pics of the still to aid in a suggestion.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:01 am**

Use ARMAFLEX, 13mm thick. Google for suppliers.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:35 am**

Why not use water heater insulation? Fiberglass with an aluminum covering. Tape it in place with aluminum tape. Leave the bottom skirt uncovered so it doesn’t interfere with your burner rings.

Natural gas water heaters are insulated with fiberglass, so why not use the same stuff on your boiler? It can be purchased at your local big box store.
ss

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:47 am**

I don't imagine that many people bother to insulate gas heated kegs, they're pretty inefficient as a sizable portion of the heat is being lost immediately to the air. Gas compensates for this by having lots of energy to spare. But...

If you did, the only insulation I would trust to be that close to a flame would be something like rock wool aka roxul.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:52 am**

Expat wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:47 am I don't imagine that many people bother to insulate gas heated kegs, they're pretty inefficient as a sizable portion of the heat is being lost immediately to the air. Gas compensates for this by having lots of energy to spare. But...

If you did, the only insulation I would trust to be that close to a flame would be something like rock wool aka roxul.

I looked at the rock wool first. It was kinds price prohibitive for me, but you are correct it is designed for boilers. It is rated well above the 1000º.

richard1 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:01 am Use ARMAFLEX, 13mm thick. Google for suppliers.

I've got armaflex on the copper pipes on the pot. I am talking about wrapping the keg.

still_stirrin wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:35 am Why not use water heater insulation? Fiberglass with an aluminum covering. Tape it in place with aluminum tape. Leave the bottom skirt uncovered so it doesn’t interfere with your burner rings.

Natural gas water heaters are insulated with fiberglass, so why not use the same stuff on your boiler? It can be purchased at your local big box store.
ss

The heater blankets Lowes and Home Depot sell here are plastic over fiberglass. The plastic would melt. If I could find some with the aluminum colored paper it likely would be suitable. I'll see what I can find on-line.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:19 am**

I found a hot water heater blanket at Home Depot. R-16 rating with foil outer and inner layer. I ordered a roll of aluminum tape as well, to insure there is plenty of tape around the bottom of the insulation a few inches above the bottom of the keg. I'll also have enough insulation to make a round piece for the top of the keg to keep that heat in as well.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:23 am**

Hi ER. A related but a bit off target comment/suggestion for you to consider. Consider un-insulating the condenser jacket portion of your rig. I find it helpful to touch the outside of my liebig’s cooling jacket to tune cooling water flow and heat during a run. If the jacket is cold top to bottom you can decrease cooling flow to conserve water (or you could increase heat if desired.). Turn flow down until only the top few inches of the jacket is hot and the lower section is cool. As heat begins to overpower your condenser you can feel the warmth move down the jacket so you know to either increase cooling flow or reduce heat.

Otis

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:52 am**

OtisT wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:23 am Hi ER. A related but a bit off target comment/suggestion for you to consider. Consider un-insulating the condenser jacket portion of your rig. I find it helpful to touch the outside of my liebig’s cooling jacket to tune cooling water flow and heat during a run. If the jacket is cold top to bottom you can decrease cooling flow to conserve water (or you could increase heat if desired.). Turn flow down until only the top few inches of the jacket is hot and the lower section is cool. As heat begins to overpower your condenser you can feel the warmth move down the jacket so you know to either increase cooling flow or reduce heat.

Otis

Thanks for the suggestion. I may just cut a couple sections out to do as you suggested.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:21 am**

Eire Rider wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:52 am I looked at the rock wool first. It was kinds price prohibitive for me, but you are correct it is designed for boilers. It is rated well above the 1000º.

Not sure what format you saw, but rockwool battens are available from most big box building stores. A bundle is about $50 and would be plenty to do 3 boilers. Challenge will be making a nice permanent job of it.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:07 am**

Expat wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:21 am
Eire Rider wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:52 am I looked at the rock wool first. It was kinds price prohibitive for me, but you are correct it is designed for boilers. It is rated well above the 1000º.
Not sure what format you saw, but rockwool battens are available from most big box building stores. A bundle is about $50 and would be plenty to do 3 boilers. Challenge will be making a nice permanent job of it.

The stuff I was looking at was the roll type with a backing a couple inched thick. I found something at Depot R-16, with reflective backing on both sides of the insulation.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:35 am**

I use an industrial steam pipe jacket. I was lucky enough to get given this at a hospital I was working at.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:39 am**

DSmith78 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:35 am I use an industrial steam pipe jacket. I was lucky enough to get given this at a hospital I was working at.

Free is always good.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:02 pm**

Expat wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:47 am I don't imagine that many people bother to insulate gas heated kegs, they're pretty inefficient as a sizable portion of the heat is being lost immediately to the air. Gas compensates for this by having lots of energy to spare. But...

I do. I use a simple oversized cotton towel double-wrapped and fastened around the sides and top. At the keg wall temperatures involved (~200F) during mashing and distilling, all that is needed is a layer of air, which the towel provides. Known as Air Space R-Value, this layer is integral to commercial building wall insulation and residential double-paned windows. Although reflectix is prominently used as a radiation barrier, it recommends said layer of air to be most efficient in hot face applications.

The bottom skirt on a keg does a masterful job of maintaining a thick (3-4") layer of concentrated heat from my burner, and is further testament to why kegs are truly elegant solutions for what we do.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:27 pm**

Twisted Brick wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:02 pm
Expat wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:47 am I don't imagine that many people bother to insulate gas heated kegs, they're pretty inefficient as a sizable portion of the heat is being lost immediately to the air. Gas compensates for this by having lots of energy to spare. But...

I do. I use a simple oversized cotton towel double-wrapped and fastened around the sides and top. At the keg wall temperatures involved (~200F) during mashing and distilling, all that is needed is a layer of air, which the towel provides. Known as Air Space R-Value, this layer is integral to commercial building wall insulation and residential double-paned windows. Although reflectix is prominently used as a radiation barrier, it recommends said layer of air to be most efficient in hot face applications.

The bottom skirt on a keg does a masterful job of maintaining a thick (3-4") layer of concentrated heat from my burner, and is further testament to why kegs are truly elegant solutions for what we do.

Yep, the bottom of the keg seems the perfect. A few inches off the flame and plenty of air to circulate, cut the top off and you'd have the perfect pot for boiling shrimp!

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:20 pm**

I use that bubble wrap with Mylar skin to reflect heat back in to boiler.
Much less heat coming off it now.
Get it at any big box store

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:56 pm**

some folks using gas opt for a shroud to utilize that escaping heat, instead of insulating.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:00 pm**

Expat wrote:
I don't imagine that many people bother to insulate gas heated kegs, they're pretty inefficient as a sizable portion of the heat is being lost immediately to the air. ....

What is important for a gas heated boiler is a shield.

I use a simple cylindrical tin shield around the boiler. As a barrier between the boiler and the surrounding air it keeps the heat in (rising around the sides of the boiler instead of being dissipated) so it is MUCH more efficient. And if the boiler is in the open it shields the whole thing from breezes that would affect the proper burning of the flame as well as cooling the boiler.

Then if you like for greater efficiency insulate the SHIELD.

Geoff

(what cob said)

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:15 pm**

A second wrap of metal a half inch off the first is cool to the touch while running, your shield should

extend from the bottom of your burner to 2/3 the way up your boiler.

what Geoff said.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:08 pm**

cob wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:56 pm some folks using gas opt for a shroud to utilize that escaping heat, instead of insulating.

That might cause problems. If you try this, make sure you have easy access to the boiler to scrape off the mess.viewtopic.php?f=88&t=57668#p7346290

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:47 pm**

NZChris wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:08 pm
cob wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:56 pm some folks using gas opt for a shroud to utilize that escaping heat, instead of insulating.
That might cause problems. If you try this, make sure you have easy access to the boiler to scrape off the mess.viewtopic.php?f=88&t=57668#p7346290

A very good point that I would certainly have overlooked. Thank you!

Posted: **Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:32 am**

I don't believe I'll be using a shroud. I understand about utilizing the heat from the burner rather than allowing it to escape. As for breezes, I should not have this issue since the area I have chosen to cook is fairly protected except from the stronger winds, and I would not cook on those days anyway.
I am very thankful for all the support/ideas everyone is giving.
My water pump and grains will be here today, the insulation blanket will be here Tuesday.

On my vinegar run how much vinegar should I use? A gallon with a couple gallons of water?

Posted: **Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:17 am**

Eire Rider wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:32 amOn my vinegar run how much vinegar should I use? A gallon with a couple gallons of water?

Yes, that’ll work. I typically run a 1:4 (acetic acid to water) ratio. Your still house will smell like a picklery when you’re running. And remember, you’ll have to use a lot of heat as the boiling point of vinegar is high.
ss

Posted: **Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:49 am**

still_stirrin wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:17 am
Eire Rider wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:32 amOn my vinegar run how much vinegar should I use? A gallon with a couple gallons of water?
Yes, that’ll work. I typically run a 1:4 (acetic acid to water) ratio. Your still house will smell like a picklery when you’re running. And remember, you’ll have to use a lot of heat as the boiling point of vinegar is high.
ss

Vinegar is my friend. LOL
Here is another pic of the still on the burner. My drip tube is approx. 2 feet off the ground should I extend it or leave it be? I did not think ahead when making the tube.

Posted: **Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:32 am**

There are a number of variables that will factor into changes to your product condenser. Assuming it is a liebig, its current length will limit the amount of heat you can apply to the boiler and ultimately your max takeoff speed. Lengthening it to 36" - 40" will greatly increase efficiency, but doing so will place your takeoff point prohibitively near the floor.

You can raise your burner (concrete blocks) to help, or if your PC isn't one already, build a shotgun . Doing so would maximize takeoff speed and shorten run times significantly. Even if you don't modify your current condenser, definitely remove all of its insulation and, assuming its made of copper, let it emit heat as it will.

Posted: **Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:01 am**

Twisted Brick wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:32 am There are a number of variables that will factor into changes to your product condenser. Assuming it is a liebig, its current length will limit the amount of heat you can apply to the boiler and ultimately your max takeoff speed. Lengthening it to 36" - 40" will greatly increase efficiency, but doing so will place your takeoff point prohibitively near the floor.

You can raise your burner (concrete blocks) to help, or if your PC isn't one already, build a shotgun . Doing so would maximize takeoff speed and shorten run times significantly. Even if you don't modify your current condenser, definitely remove all of its insulation and, assuming its made of copper, let it emit heat as it will.

Everything is copper, except the keg. When I insulated the condenser I was thinking of the hot summers here and keeping the water cool. I will check out the other things you mentioned like the shotgun. I do not know what that is yet, but will in a few minutes. I'm sure since this is my first pot, the second one will be vastly improved thanks to everyone here.

Posted: **Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:09 am**

Twisted Brick wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:32 am if your PC isn't one already, build a shotgun . Doing so would maximize takeoff speed and shorten run times significantly. Even if you don't modify your current condenser, definitely remove all of its insulation and, assuming its made of copper, let it emit heat as it will.

So the shotgun thing goes inside the two-inch pipe and the two-inch pipe is the condenser that the water is hooked to, and then the four inside tubes feed into the one that drips into the jar?
If the shotgun is as I described above are you using 4 1/2 inch copper pipes on the inside with the spacers?

Posted: **Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:24 am**

Huh?

A shotgun has multiple vapor tubes inside the water jacket and shell (a tube(s) in shell) condenser. Google it.

The vapors enter in one end (a plenum) and then divides to the tube bank. At the other end, the tube bank again opens to the central pipe outlet. I use reducers on either end for the plenums. And baffles on the tube bank ends. I also have intermediary partial baffles to create a swirling “crossflow” of the water in the shell. This improves the heat transfer efficiency, allowing a slower water flow rate.
ss

Posted: **Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:31 am**

still_stirrin wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:24 am Huh?

A shotgun has multiple vapor tubes inside the water jacket and shell (a tube(s) in shell) condenser. Google it.

The vapors enter in one end (a plenum) and then divides to the tube bank. At the other end, the tube bank again opens to the central pipe outlet. I use reducers on either end for the plenums. And baffles on the tube bank ends. I also have intermediary partial baffles to create a swirling “crossflow” of the water in the shell. This improves the heat transfer efficiency, allowing a slower water flow rate.
ss

You just explained the half plates he had in his shotgun. I was wondering about them. Thanks, Man!

Posted: **Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:35 am**

I had a response typed up but S_S nailed it.

re: insulation, as it does its job of condensing hot vapor, a product condenser can get very hot, and insulating it will make it work harder.

Posted: **Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:45 am**

Twisted Brick wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:35 am I had a response typed up but S_S nailed it.

re: insulation, as it does its job of condensing hot vapor, a product condenser can get very hot, and insulating it will make it work harder.

Gotcha on the heat.

I was reading this article: https://scotchwhisky.com/magazine/ask-t ... t-flavour/
And it sounds like the bigger distillers run the cold water thru the tubes rather than the shell. Am I reading it right?
If I'm seeing your shotgun correctly the vapor is going thru the tubes, and the cool water is in the shell cooling the tubes. Is this correct.
Man, y'all have me thinking on the next build already and I haven't even cleaned the first one yet. LOL

Home Distiller

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