First concentric condenser and column.

[derrumbes]

Hello. This is my first build ever. I did a test run for non potable vinegar, using crappy scrubbers for packing, using a stoovetop coffeepot, flour paste and Vaseline saturated cotton for seals. No leaks and nice condensate!

I am feeling very proud. I live in what some call a subtropical emerging economy. This means many trips on my bicycle to scrapyards and making do with whatever fittings I could find.

Lack of the right reducers means I had to hammer a lot of thick wire to fill the gaps. First condenser required some patches and a few hours to fix all the leaks.

Second condenser took 45 minutes, got it on the first try.

Pipes are 1.25", 1" and 3/4".

Now I just need to figure out a boiler and product condenser.

Thank you for looking.

[Samyguy]

Good start!!

[StillerBoy]

That's my favorite unit, the concentric.. I have them in 1,5", 2" and 3" design.. best all around unit for versatility..

Pictured below is my mini liebig which I can use across all my other units.. it's 1/2" outer, 3/8" inner X 8" cooling area..

Mars

[StillerBoy]

In looking at the first picture posted, the one that has the vapour throat body in it.. would it be possible to have a picture of it closer up.. for one thing, cut you outlet pipe down to about 1 1/4" from the cup.. reason being that if its to long from the cup, once the liebig is attached to it and filled with water, the liebig will apply weight on it and that not a good thing..

Mars

[derrumbes]

StillerBoy, I'll build a liebig once I have enough scrap and have figured out the needle valve. Bookmarked for reference.

Regarding pipe lengths, I'll post a close-up when I get back home. What are you interested in seeing so I can take a picture?

I intentionally left the 1/4 pipes too long, to cut down to size later, but I never thought about the weight with the water in it and the lever arm, thanks for the critique.

Anyone who builds stuff should read Structures : Or Why Things Don't Fall Down by J. E. Gordon.

In the worst case I could add a gusset to reinforce the stressed area, like on my bike.

[StillerBoy]

In the worst case I could add a gusset to reinforce the stressed area, like on my bike.

No need for gusset if time is taken to understand what needs to be done and why..

Regarding pipe lengths, I'll post a close-up when I get back home. What are you interested in seeing so I can take a picture?

There's a few issues I would like to address with your built, but I'll wait until you post the picture, so that everyone can follow..

Which thread on HD did you get your idea from to build a concentric..

Mars

[derrumbes]

Photos attached of the vapor throat and how it connects to the condenser. Let me know if you need more photos. I think I could cut some of the protruding vapor pipe from the condenser for a tighter fit.

Thanks again for looking and advising.

I am not sure which thread I got the idea from, I've been reading this forum on and off for many years, taking notes and drawing sketches.

[StillerBoy]

TY for the pictures.. there are a few issues off hand that I can see with the built..

What you have built is a stripping throat body at best, and you will not be able to use it to reflux with.. so at this stage of your built, there is no need for a valve at the cup..

Reason for the about statement..

the 3/4" vapour throat pipe is extending beyond the top of the reducer (the cup).. by doing so there is no way of allowing the condensed vapours to run back down the column.. and the condensed vapours not being able to run down the column will flood over the reducer to the outside..

your reflux condenser will not properly work based on the fact that it the inner tube is bottoming out very near the outlet within the cup..

also on the bottom end the vapour throat pipe, it will work better if it project at least by a 1/4".. this allow the condensed vapour to be centered, or it stop it from running down the column wall..

as to the reflux condenser, 1 1/4: outer with an 1" inner, it will not be very efficient due to it's limit cooling ability.. it will work, but you will not be able to use much power..

I've attached a picture of how I build my..

Mars

2" vapour throat body setup

lower end of throat body pipe

upper end of throat body pipe

[still_stirrin]

Here’s a link to a thread for how the concentric head works: viewtopic.php?t=54183&p=7291535#p7291535
ss

[StillerBoy]

The quote by Still Stirrin "Rad's concentric condenser design is a great example."

Here's the link to Rad's built that SS referred too and was improved on.. the original design was done by member back in 2008 but the pictures are no longer available since the new web browser update of HD.. and Rad followed up with the design back in 2013 and that's went I first build my and that the design I go back to most often and build for new comers for an LM..

viewtopic.php?t=36382

Mars

[derrumbes]

the 3/4" vapour throat pipe is extending beyond the top of the reducer (the cup).. by doing so there is no way of allowing the condensed vapours to run back down the column.. and the condensed vapours not being able to run down the column will flood over the reducer to the outside.

I see. I used flour paste to seal the resudcer to the condenser, the alcohol would touch it... Could this be used with Teflon tape?

This is the only way I could keep some 39 ml of condensate in the cup.

your reflux condenser will not properly work based on the fact that it the inner tube is bottoming out very near the outlet within the cup.

I am not really sure I understand what you mean by this... But looking at the assembly again, it looks like if enough condensate pools for reflux, it would be pooling inside the cool part of the condenser, is that what you mean?

also on the bottom end the vapour throat pipe, it will work better if it project at least by a 1/4".. this allow the condensed vapour to be centered, or it stop it from running down the column wall.

Got it.

as to the reflux condenser, 1 1/4: outer with an 1" inner, it will not be very efficient due to it's limit cooling ability.. it will work, but you will not be able to use much power..

This is the one that does not worry me, this is intended for small runs of a few gallons of was, 4 or so at most.


At the end, is this build salvageable at all?

Thank you.

[StillerBoy]

Posted twice..

[StillerBoy]

At the end, is this build salvageable at all?

Not really.. there's to many flaws in the building of it.. look at how I built my and review that with Rad's thread.. that should give you a better understanding of the design..

The reason you needed to seal it with flour paste was because the throat pipe extended to long or to high.., remember, the liquid has to go somewhere.. in your setup, that was back up the condenser to the level of the throat pipe, before it could go back down.. causing it to leak.. shortening of the throat pipe will change anything it needs to be shorter than the top of the cup..

One way you may be able to salvage the unit would be in doing the following.. get a coupling of the same size as the reducer that forms the cup, cut coupling in half just about the stopper on the coupling, cut the throat pipe even with the top of the reducer (cup top).. solder the cut coupling piece to the top of the cup with the stopper next to the cup.. then cut the inner tube on the condenser down some.. that should make it workable with no needing to be sealed..

Mars

[derrumbes]

Thanks. I am looking at your pictures and reading Rad's thread. A lot of information to digest. It'll take a while.

This is a spoon-feeding request, could you point me to a post with actual dimensions?

[StillerBoy]

Not sure what it is you want me to point out for you..

But.. here's my dimensions of the vapour throat on the ones I've built... all reducers on the small end are trimmed down.. the vapour tube are design to give about 1" space between the two reducers, with one end extending about 1/4" out past the reducer holding, and the other end extending enough to give a cup size of about 25ml.. with a coupling cut in half, retaining the stop on one side and soldering it to the cup side.. (with this info check it against the picture)

on a column size of 1 1/2".. reducers of 1.5" x 1".. and vapour throat pipe of ".. condenser inside pipe of 1"
on a column size of 2"... reducer of 2" x 1 1/4".. and vapour throat pipe of 1 1/4"
on a column size of 3".. reducer of 3" x 2".. and vapour throat pipe of 2"

Mars

[derrumbes]

I read Rad's thread and looked at your pictures. It is hard to get measurements, the information is spread over many comments. Some I got from the text, some from counting pixels in the pictures.

What keeps tripping me out is the idea that the cup should hold between one and two ounces of condensate before refluxing. Is this correct?

I made some sketches, could you take a look and let me know if they make sense to you?

This is how Rad's build looks disassembled.

This is how it looks assembled.

This is from Rad's thread on building the small apartment still. Based on the pictures I asume Rad is reusing components for the concentric build.

This is how it should fit together if Rad reused components without modifying them.

And maybe this is how I can fix mine?


Thank you again for helping an utter noob.

[StillerBoy]

Yeah they make sense.. and you are starting to understand the principal of the concentric.. once that is understood, then the rest will come easy..

I've attached a picture of what I was saying in a prior post.. with what I have said on how you can maybe save what you have done so far, and what's in the picture, maybe there's hope yet with you unit.. anyway, you are gaining experience with it all.. it's for a 2" design, but you should be able to scale it to what ever size..

Mars

[derrumbes]

Thank you, I'll look for some couplers and build a new one.

At least the one I have worked as a pot distiller for cleaning vinegar (some weeks I can't move enough kombucha and let it go to vinegar) and distilled water, my windows will be cleaner than ever.

[StillerBoy]

I'll look for some couplers and build a new one.

Before you build a new one, PM me the sizes or available piping you have, and I will guide you to the best way to build..

Mars

[StillerBoy]

At least the one I have worked as a pot distiller

What you have right now, will do a good job as a stripping setup, which is just like running the concentric as a pot setup, with no valve needed to do the job..

Mars

[derrumbes]

This is the copper I could get laid out before I start soldering. The largest diameter I can get is 1.25", I have to base everything on this.

I had to make the cup very long to be able to hold 28 ml.

The bottom of the condenser's 1" inner pipe is just a few mm above the top of the throat's 3/4" pipe.

The 3/4" pipe extends into the lower reducer, I have marked where I would notch.

I am not sure if I should make the take off tube 1/4" or 3/8", what do you recommend?