Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

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StillerBoy
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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by StillerBoy »

Slow42 wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:40 am I guess a matter of interpretation. Again your looking at it from the view point of an expert with at least a years worth of experience
See, there's where you and most others who get in the hobby done get.. it is not a matter of interpretation, it has all to do with taking the time to piece what is required in all four categories, nothing more, nothing less..

As to the years of experience, all that has done for me is make it much more enjoyable, because right from the start I took the time to learn what was required, how it all worked, and then started.. never created for myself any problems..

Just a point on a different subject.. I successfully defended myself in a court case a few years back.. did I know how law and the court system worked.. I'm just a common person with no degrees in anythings but the ability to learn how things work, as every one has.. well, I took the time to learn law and how the court work and saved myself over 25,000$ in legal fees.. anyone can do the same, its just takes the will to learn and understand first and foremost..

Mars
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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by Slow42 »

Mars I think up you underestimate yourself and others ability’s. This post is a perfect example of this. Everyone here has strengths and weaknesses it’s not a sign of ignorance just unique thoughts and individuals. Some except this and some don’t. There’s a lot of prejudice here and I’m quite surprised at this seeing it’s just a hobby! There is not one person here better than another they just think there are! I read a post here written by someone named Rad something can’t remember exactly. But it went something like this, you can educate the uninformed by you can’t fix stupid!
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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by Slow42 »

LWTCS I never noticed a glass column on any of his videos. I’ll mention it to him that you would like a comparison to that of a solid column. He’s pretty respective to a point. Myself I’m not sure what point your trying to make. A still needs heat correct? What controller are you using to make this happen? I assume you don’t believe a PID can be used in the same fashion as your controller. So let’s assume you are using the correct model PID that controls temperature, pretty much it’s only function, that it can’t do the same thing as your controller correct? Is that your premise? No need for a detailed explanation just a yes or no would suffice.
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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by thecroweater »

I would think a few of you jokers can thank your lucky stars Rad in not in a position to reply as I'm damn certain he would be all over this crap. One thing for sure he would point out is you can control what you post but not who replies or how.
You still don't seem to comprehend or believe how volitiles distill off at temperatures dependant on the boiling points of the various compounds present and the percentage of that compound at any given stage. Rad has some pretty brilliant posts on this if you care to do the research as to why as still won't boil off at the exact temperatures of those volitiles. What that means is even if you knew exactly every separate volitile, what percentage of the charge that volitile comprises of and all their exact boil points you still could not autamate the distillation process with a PID or any other temperature control because those volitiles form compounds with other volitiles continuously in an ever changing, ever rising boil point but seeing how you want an easy answer that a no there champ :thumbup:
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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by Saltbush Bill »

You seem to be missing the whole point slow. You CAN NOT CONTROL THE TEMPERATURE! You can only control the rate at which it boils.
Edit....posted As Crow posted.
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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by Slow42 »

I’m not missing anything! What your saying makes no sense. “ You can only control the rate at which it boils.” just how do you do that? Temperature?
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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by thecroweater »

Slow42 wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:28 pm I’m not missing anything! What your saying makes no sense. “ You can only control the rate at which it boils.” just how do you do that? Temperature?
I wrote my post slowly so read it slowly
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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by Slow42 »

I pretty much dismiss anything you post!!! You can read that quickly!!!
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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by LWTCS »

Slow42 wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:28 pm I’m not missing anything! What your saying makes no sense. “ You can only control the rate at which it boils.” just how do you do that? Temperature?
Nope. You are not paying attention.
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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by thecroweater »

Slow42 wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:35 pm I pretty much dismiss anything you post!!! You can read that quickly!!!
Yes myself and anyone else that posts in opposition to your preconceived notions and that is about where the problem lies. You can not reach a mind that is already firmly made up and you can think what ever bull shit you like but if you want to post those conclusions here for any length of time make them factual or keep them to your self
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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by Saltbush Bill »

This thread could be used as a classic example of why newbies should NEVER watch distilling tutorials on YouTube.
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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by jedneck »

Do what you want. Your gonna anyhow. Don’t come here crying when it don’t work
Last edited by jedneck on Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

Slow42 wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:28 pm You can only control the rate at which it boils.” just how do you do that? Temperature?
Not temperature. Power.

You can either boil water at a simmer, or a rapid boil. But it's still boiling at 212. You put more power to it (like turning up your stove top for pasta), it doesn't boil at 213. It just boils faster (more steam). Alternatively , you can lower the power, but it doesn't boil at 211. It just stops boiling.

That's the simple math. You can go to algebra with multiple chemicals and boiling points, but it's the same principal. You can't make it boil any different temperature than the average of what's in there. It will only boil through the different points faster or slower based on your power input.
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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by Slow42 »

LWTCS I respect your opinion and I am paying attention. Explain to me in a very short sentence how you control the rate at which something boils if it isn't by temperature. Yes the temperature will be different for everyone but it’s still a temperature.
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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by Slow42 »

Shineoncrazydiamond your just playing word games with power vs temperature. Add or subtract power the temperature will rise or lower. Everything is depended on power as you call it or temperature as I call it. Same meaning same outcome. If I want to boil something at 212 degrees, temperature, adjust power so it stays at 212 degrees, temperature! The key point is 212 degrees. Same goes for any temperature you want to set to. A PID adjusts the amount of power your talking about in milliseconds to achieve that temperature goal.
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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by jedneck »

Bullshit. Put pan of water on stove n get it boiling. Check temperature and turn knob lower or higher and check again. Long as boiling it be same temperature.
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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by LWTCS »

Slow42 wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:31 pm LWTCS I never noticed a glass column on any of his videos. I’ll mention it to him that you would like a comparison to that of a solid column. He’s pretty respective to a point. Myself I’m not sure what point your trying to make.
.
The point is that with a glass column, you would see that once a target temp is achieved with PID control, the heat input will stop and you will literally be able to watch the activity crash to a halt.
No heat= no pressure. No pressure = no gradient.

Within the context of distillation, do you understand what and how important a gradient is yet? Have you learned that yet? Evidently not.
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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by LWTCS »

Slow42 wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:05 pm Shineoncrazydiamond your just playing word games with power vs temperature. Add or subtract power the temperature will rise or lower. Everything is depended on power as you call it or temperature as I call it. Same meaning same outcome. If I want to boil something at 212 degrees, temperature, adjust power so it stays at 212 degrees, temperature! The key point is 212 degrees. Same goes for any temperature you want to set to. A PID adjusts the amount of power your talking about in milliseconds to achieve that temperature goal.

Yeah you can be quiet anytime now. You are quite literally clueless.
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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

And you're playing off like you want to learn, but refuse to listen. You are arguing just to be combative. An entire forum is trying to get you to connect the dots, not for their own good, as they are quite accomplished community of distillers. But for yours. I didn't post my simple explanation to play words, I did it to try and get your hard head to see it differently.

In any case, we've seen the likes of you many times over. If you think we're as you describe, then once more I invite you to find somewhere else that thinks like you. This ain't the only forum. Door's to the left.
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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by StillerBoy »

Slow42 wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:05 pm A PID adjusts the amount of power your talking about in milliseconds to achieve that temperature goal.
In stilling you are not trying to achieve a temperature goal.. you are trying to control the evaporation rate..

A PID will not do that due to it construction, whereas a potentiometer will allow the amount of power required to control the evaporation rate..

Temperature only relates to the vapors themself, not the boiling point of the liquid in the boiler..

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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by Saltbush Bill »

I've seen some slow learners on some forums but this current crop takes the cake.
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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controlle

Post by GCB3 »

Man, this thread makes me want to shoot myself.
Slow, I am sorry to tell you but you are really missing the point. Yes, heat input has the direct effect of raising the temperature of a liquid UNTIL it starts boiling. At that point the temperature will not rise no matter how much power you put into the liquid. Check out a chemical engineering textbook on distillation. This topic is well covered. Please do not take offense because none is intended
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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by StillerBoy »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:20 pm I've seen some slow learners on some forums but this current crop takes the cake.
10 yrs or so back, there was very little on youtube about the hobby..

Today people are trying to make a living using youtube.. so any garbage is permitted as long as it get some hits..

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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

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Slow42 wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:51 pm LWTCS I respect your opinion and I am paying attention. Explain to me in a very short sentence how you control the rate at which something boils if it isn't by temperature. Yes the temperature will be different for everyone but it’s still a temperature.
Boiling point will be somewhere between 173 and 212 based on the fact that ethanol is 100% infinitely miscible with water. So a 10% ABV beer will come to boil before an 8% ABV beer.
However, once you start to render alcohol out of the system, the boiling point of the miscible solution will change. The boiling point will increase as the run progresses with no additional heat input.

Do you not comprehend that FACT yet. How many times does it have to be said?
Last edited by LWTCS on Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by HDNB »

ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:13 pm An entire forum is trying to get you to connect the dots
often that's the goal of troll, to see how many will waste time on them, or otherwise lose their minds, blow up and get a board warning themselves.
just think of them snickering at their keyboards in mom's basement and go look at another thread.

part of the fun for us is to practice our keyboarding skills too...

we could ignore it, it will go away. or i could padlock it and it will for sure go away.
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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by jonnys_spirit »

AEE04020-BE8B-46E6-A892-AC084217D405.jpeg
Here’s a graph.

Here’s some notes:
http://www.kelleybarts.com/PhotoXfer/Re ... gMyth.html
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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Excellent link johnny :thumbup: Zymurgy Bobs explanation of how it works should have been posted up long ago.
Anyone who cant understand that has some serious issues.
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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

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+1 Johnny!
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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by LWTCS »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:12 pm Excellent link johnny :thumbup: Zymurgy Bobs explanation of how it works should have been posted up long ago.
Anyone who cant understand that has some serious issues.

100%.
And yet I somehow can't help but to think that Bob's write up will not be comprehended in any meaningful way. So much so that it's as if Bob is talking to a brick wall.
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Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by shadylane »

Slow42 wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:05 pm Add or subtract power the temperature will rise or lower.
The boiler temp will rise as the alcohol is flashed off.
More power can make that happen faster.
The vapor temp is directly related to the % of alcohol left in the boiler.
Long story short. A boiler has to be heated until it boils

Recon it's time for me and the old dog to go out to the shop and do something :wave:
Before She starts complaining about not getting anything constructive done. :lol:
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