Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Other discussions for folks new to the wonderful craft of home distilling.

Moderator: Site Moderator

User avatar
LWTCS
Site Mod
Posts: 12836
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: North Palm Beach

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by LWTCS »

shadylane wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:28 pm
Slow42 wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:05 pm Add or subtract power the temperature will rise or lower.
A boiler has to be heated until it boils
Far too cryptic. He has no idea how to comprehend the nuance of that fact.
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
cob
Master of Distillation
Posts: 2691
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:38 pm
Location: little puffs of dust where my feet used to be

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by cob »

this is just like the good old days when the exiles were still here.

from a post in 2015

viewtopic.php?f=85&t=56081&p=7319151&hi ... r#p7319151
be water my friend
User avatar
cranky
Master of Distillation
Posts: 6505
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:18 pm
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by cranky »

Slow42 wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:21 am Crankey said “It would be interesting to see what really happens when you run in the way Cayers, Charcoal, Slow42 and George claim you can.” Crankey, George has several good videos already showing how it works. He has as much to offer as all the experts he.


From what I have seen George is trying to make stills work using equipment intended for mashing and hopping beer not running a still. They are totally different animals. I've also seen George using extremely outdated, inefficient column designs and synthetics where they shouldn't be and that was just watching 2 videos referenced by you or one of the other two who seem to be trying to promote him and his business / Youtube channel for some reason.

You and George obviously don't know what is going on inside the column, you see that is where I have an advantage over the average distiller, I can. As a result I can run my still not only by sound, power input, output temperature and ABV but I can see if my column is trying to flood or isn't getting enough heat input.I can actually see the reflux happening, I can also see if something interrupts the heat input to cause a ripple up the column, or cause the equilibrium to collapse and I can run with a fully or partially fluidized bed to maximize both the purity and time spent running my still. If George had access to a glass column he might actually learn what he is talking about.
Slow42 wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:21 am He may not be of your caliber in the experience department but he does offer valuable insight. It’s not like every piece of information on this site is correct, again matter of opinion.
You see I think that is really the biggest problem, he (and you) are trying to present him as some sort of expert or at least knowledgeable person but when said expert can't even get the most basic things right they are not only doing a disservice to the distilling community they are often unknowingly promoting dangerous activities. If you can't do it right and give correct information it's best not to make videos of it that this community then has to spend far too much of it's time trying to un-do. Unfortunately Youtube, and the internet in general, is full of people giving bad distilling advice that only results in poor and often dangerous results.

If you want to spend your time watching youtube videos that will actually teach you the facts about distilling and not give you false information try looking up a channel called Stillit. Better yet, I'll just give you a link
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCThY8l ... 9HVBT59zCg


People are here to help you and others learn the right way to distill, they don't get paid and they aren't here just to insult people or make themselves feel superior. It gets very frustrating when you give someone good advice and they argue with you because they just can't understand no matter how simple you try to make it.



As a side note it seems you don't seem to know how to properly quote someone so I would like to give a little tutorial on that.

Lets say you want to quote me but you only want to quote a little bit of what I'm saying.

If the thread hasn't moved too far hit "Post Reply" at the bottom of the page.

scroll down to the post you want to quote

highlite the part you want to quote
Capture 1 - C.JPG
Hit the little quote symbol
[/quote]
Capture 2 - C.JPG
and there you have it
Capture 3 - C.JPG
You see when you quote someone properly they get a notice that they have been quoted so they can more easily answer the person quoting them. When someone doesn't quote someone properly it's often intentional in the hope that the person won't respond.
User avatar
Tater
Admin
Posts: 9678
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:19 am
Location: occupied south

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by Tater »

You can take a horse to water but ya cant make them drink .Some just dont get it and seems they never will.Slow 42 this just isnt the forum for you I wish you luck in where ever you go next .However your time here is at a end .
I use a pot still.Sometimes with a thumper
User avatar
cranky
Master of Distillation
Posts: 6505
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:18 pm
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by cranky »

HDNB wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:57 pm
we could ignore it, it will go away. or i could padlock it and it will for sure go away.
Pleas don't lock the thread yet, I am really wanting to see what Charcoal comes up with on Tuesday.

Slow42's failure to grasp the concept is largely irreverent given he said he has a controller that doesn't use a PID and will probably run his still correctly in spite of what he might think it's doing.
User avatar
Saltbush Bill
Site Mod
Posts: 9675
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by Saltbush Bill »

cranky wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:27 pm If you want to spend your time watching youtube videos that will actually teach you the facts about distilling and not give you false information try looking up a channel called Stillit.
Cranky its not as simple to escape Georges ramblings as you might think, hes begun giving his expert opinion in Stillit clips such as this one as well. :(
charcoal
Swill Maker
Posts: 262
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:28 pm

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by charcoal »

Respected members,

How much is the expected ABV from a 500cm copper mesh packed column?

Thanks in Advance!
User avatar
thecroweater
retired
Posts: 6079
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:04 am
Location: Central Highlands Vic. Australia

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by thecroweater »

This will depend a lot on how it is packed, what sort of condenser and how it is run including take off rate. There is a little home brew shop type still made in Geelong called the Ultra Pure still that wouldn't be too much bigger than that and it will get 95.63 % ABV out of just about any wash, if you pull it off too fast it won't be much less than that either but that 4.37% will have some nasty Krud in it. By extending the column you can increase the purity and run speed/take off rate significantly but the 500 mm column will do the job all be it damn slowly :thumbup:
Edit
Ok seems I miss read that on account I haven't used centimetres since school some 35 years ago. 5 metres is kinda over the top for a normal column length.
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin
User avatar
LWTCS
Site Mod
Posts: 12836
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: North Palm Beach

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by LWTCS »

500cm is more than 16 feet tall
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
User avatar
Saltbush Bill
Site Mod
Posts: 9675
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by Saltbush Bill »

:shock: thats one hell of a column......5 meters :shock:
User avatar
LWTCS
Site Mod
Posts: 12836
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: North Palm Beach

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by LWTCS »

Hopefully they'd want a do over on that vid.
George repeatedly references "temperature control".

Also mentions early on how that little peepee still will "strip" out all the flavor. There simply is not enough plates (theoretical or actual) to scrub out enough flavor to call the finished product too neutral (or the like).

The other fellows did a far better job of remaining less committed to making statements that are just straight up inaccurate. George comes off as an expert but his comments are rife with inaccuracies.
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
User avatar
LWTCS
Site Mod
Posts: 12836
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: North Palm Beach

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by LWTCS »

And even remotely implying that the second liebig displayed was too big is completely misrepresenting the need to conserve cooling medium (water) consumption for folks that live under constant water restrictions.
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
User avatar
jonnys_spirit
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 3630
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:58 am
Location: The Milky Way

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by jonnys_spirit »

Those look like sales and marketing videos lol.

-jonny
————
i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
————
User avatar
LWTCS
Site Mod
Posts: 12836
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: North Palm Beach

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by LWTCS »

jonnys_spirit wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:47 am Those look like sales and marketing videos lol.

-jonny
Problem is the internet really is a self policing community with respect to distilling. Saying things that are less than accurate will just compromise any real credibility eventually.
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
StillerBoy
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3387
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:27 pm
Location: Ontario

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by StillerBoy »

charcoal wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:32 am How much is the expected ABV from a 500cm copper mesh packed column?
This question has got to be a joke ? ?

Why waste your time on question such as that one, or even ours as there many reason it's not feasible..

You've further expose yourself to the lack of understanding of the hobby, and a loss of reality..

Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "

– Albert Einstein
charcoal
Swill Maker
Posts: 262
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:28 pm

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by charcoal »

I shot the video last night. New PID came early.

The so called controller got an upgrade too!

For people who want some fun, there is a water related blooper at the start. There is a lot there to make fun of.

The rate was 1L in 33 mins. I had to adjust water once because of the water accident in start.
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by NZChris »

1l of what?
charcoal
Swill Maker
Posts: 262
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:28 pm

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by charcoal »

You will see. I did measure the temps and if my memory is correct used two hydrometers. I also did a dilute and burn test.

There is an image of a Hindu God, a brown man, a water accident, unfinished controller and few more things to talk about.

Video will be up in 11 hours or so.
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by NZChris »

I'd rather you just told me what came out of the spout than waste two hours of my life watching Youtube :D
User avatar
Saltbush Bill
Site Mod
Posts: 9675
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by Saltbush Bill »

charcoal wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:20 pm I also did a dilute and burn test.
And it told you????????
StillerBoy
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3387
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:27 pm
Location: Ontario

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by StillerBoy »

Will it be amateur hour.. again ? ?

Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "

– Albert Einstein
charcoal
Swill Maker
Posts: 262
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:28 pm

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by charcoal »

NZChris wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:58 pm I'd rather you just told me what came out of the spout than waste two hours of my life watching Youtube :D
Around 90 percent came out
User avatar
cranky
Master of Distillation
Posts: 6505
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:18 pm
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by cranky »

charcoal wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:20 pm I did measure the temps and if my memory is correct used two hydrometers.
Do you know what temperature the hydrometers are calibrated for?

I would also like to know what temperature you took the measurement at.
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by NZChris »

Are you happy with that?
charcoal
Swill Maker
Posts: 262
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:28 pm

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by charcoal »

cranky wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:40 pm
charcoal wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:20 pm I did measure the temps and if my memory is correct used two hydrometers.
Do you know what temperature the hydrometers are calibrated for?

I would also like to know what temperature you took the measurement at.
20c . The liquid was @22 C yesterday night
charcoal
Swill Maker
Posts: 262
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:28 pm

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by charcoal »

NZChris wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:26 pm Are you happy with that?
Did not get to check the quality or even ABV properly but the below things are good.

2 litre per hour on 2" 2200 watt setup.
No water adjustments in a cm still
And very high ABV with around 25 percent strip run.

It is an experiment like my other experiments in this hobby so far.
User avatar
shadylane
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10363
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by shadylane »

Experimenting is good :thumbup:
First things first

Run the CM rig @ a constant 2200w with no cooling water to the dephleg
And measure the take off rate.

On a side note
Don't trust a 2200w element to be exactly that
Even at it's rated voltage
It could easily be as much as 10% off or more.
Last edited by shadylane on Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by NZChris »

Quality and ABV has priority over speed, electric and cooling water expenses with my only reflux still.

I've never built a CM, but if I did, I would want fine quality, high abv, output from my first run and would do everything I could to get that. I doubt I would get what I need at 89.5%
User avatar
shadylane
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10363
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by shadylane »

NZChris wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:12 pm
I've never built a CM, but if I did, I would want fine quality, high abv, output from my first run and would do everything I could to get that. I doubt I would get what I need at 89.5%
It depends on what's in the boiler
What your attempting to make out of it.
And the rig being used.
My hydrometer is somewhat accurate, but sadly very short on taste buds :lol:
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Me running my CM reflux still by using a PID controller

Post by NZChris »

shadylane wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:09 amIt depends on what's in the boiler
What your attempting to make out of it.
And the rig being used.
I've never put wash in my Bokakob. I should try wash sometime because I do have a fusel side draw section that should work well for wash, but so far it's only had low wines or feints intended for gin through it. One day....
Post Reply