Home Distiller

I heard a brief mention of this on a Utube video by a small distillery in the US.
flavored by hazelnut, cinnamon and vanilla. sounds good, but how would it be done?
by maseration, distilling with the ingrdients in the still, or with a gin head?
what do you think?
I'll probably get around to trying all three methods untill I figure it out. starting with maseration.

Violentblue

I saw your post and I wanted to respond to it. I don't know how far you have gotten on your Hazelnut Gin yet; you probably already worked it out! My family are major gin lovers, and sippers. Okay, gin whores!! My great-grandmother spent some time in Geneva and London and came to love "Geneva Wine". She always called it that; never Gin She lived to be 110. I was there for her last birthday, and when she passed in her sleep, 6 months after her last birthday. She had an entire notebook of 'geneva wine' recipes that I have now. Anyway, some friends of our family have a smallish regional distillery in the province bordering ours. They make mostly liqueurs that are just now getting out of the region and into the world market. They just rolled out a cherry and fortified wine beverage based on a homemade liqueur that most households make. They are working on several other liqueurs as we speak, including a Hazelnut Liqueur. I asked if they would not mind disclosing the information on how they are making it. I hope you can incorporate some of the ingredients into your Gin. I could not get exact measurements because they know that I was just approved and licensed to open my own winery/ distillery in my province!! I’m going to be leaving the States in September. Annual harvest time and then I’ll be getting married out there in November, and we will not be coming back to the States. I’m rambling on.

I still want to relay the basic outline recipe that Michael gave me. Here is the list. I hope that you can find something useful from it. I know he is still tweaking it to get it closer to Frangelico, but still be distinct enough to stand apart for judging purposes. I wanted to get this to ya sooner but I had to do the translation plus, ya know, live life, LOL.

Ingredient List:
1)Neutral Ethanol of 75%- from corn distillate
2)Distilled Water
3)Shelled Hazelnuts, toasted and ground medium fine
Do not discard any of the skins that may come off during chopping.
4)Vanilla Beans, split lengthwise and contents scraped. Pod chopped into small pieces
5)Dried Angelica Root, ground medium
6)Allspice Berries, ground coarse
7)Ambrette Seeds, ground coarse
8)Cassia Cinnamon, ground medium
9)Cloves, ground medium
10)Coriander Seeds, ground medium
11)Mace, ground medium
12)Dried Raspberry leaves, chopped
13)Dried Rhubarb Root, ground medium
14)Dutched Cocoa Powder, sifted
15)Whole Coffee Beans, dark roast, ground very coarse
16)Dried Bitter Orange Blossoms/ Flowers, broken up
17)Dried Bitter Orange Peel, ground medium
18)Fresh Citron Zest, chopped
19)Invert Syrup
20)Caramel Syrup, as need to correct color/ flavor of final product
(Sorry, I was given a list of E numbers with notes attached that I had to look up)
21- 22)Red E120, E129, if needed for color adjustment
23- 24)Brown E150a, E150c, if needed for color adjustment
25- 26)Orange E110, 160a, if needed for color adjustment
27)Potassium Metabisulphite E224
28)Potassium Sorbate E202
29)Xanthan Gum E145
30)Glycerine E422

Process:
Mixing
Maceration
Pressing
Filtering
Settling
Nut Oil Removal
Quality Control
Aging- In Oak
Quality Control
Filtering
Quality Control- Sweetening, Caramel, Coloring, Adjuncts
Settling
Bottling
Aging
Quality Control
Packaging & Distribution

As to your question of distilling with the ingredients in the pot, or using a gin head. I have never used a gin head in my life. No one in my family has. We warm macerate the botanicals for up to 72 hour, then distill, ant cut. A few of her recipes have sugar in them at the end and are sweet! Odd, but good mixers. I have been abe to reproduce my favorite Gin, Bombay Sapphire, fairly close to the real thing. I'm not saying this to ring my own bell, but I've been around a still since I can remember! As for my great gramdmother's brews; she was always looking for some new herbs or spices for hers. Hops grow wild where I live in Italy as does many varities of mint. Well, great gran must have been a bit "happy" one day when she decided to combine hopps and peppermint with one of her basic gin recipes. I reproduced it from her notes and I thought I was gonna never stop hurling into the toilet! The next time around I upped the mint and cut way back on the hopps and it was actually good! Fiance and I were having some nice G&T's with it, but it was reminisicent of drinking a mint julep, a bit of beer, a bit of gin, and tonic water at the same time. What a freaking combo huh.

Good luck with your Hazelnut Gin. If you do make it, gotta let me know how ya did it and if its worth it! I'll still have online access while I'm gone for a while until I close my Internet account in the States. My broter is moving from th UK so he will be using my house until it sells. Thank God for PC Anywhere and wireless modems!!

ES- The Doctor

Big gin post in a rum thread. Some of the info may still be useful and all, but... bit of an odd place to put it.
Any progress on the tests?
An interesting subject... Haven't actually heard anyone mention using actual nuts until now, but I have heard of nut flavors in spirits... Until now I'd assumed a unique wood or specific toasting method or something... Like getting an almond flavor from a hotter toast of oak, but maybe a different wood...
Certainly interesting.

concept is the same, except with rum as a base rather than neutral.
I think I'm going to try your recipe exactly as is, then try a modified version for rum.

EuroStiller wrote:Process:
Mixing
Maceration
Pressing
Filtering
Settling
Nut Oil Removal
Quality Control
Aging- In Oak
Quality Control
Filtering
Quality Control- Sweetening, Caramel, Coloring, Adjuncts
Settling
Bottling
Aging
Quality Control
Packaging & Distribution

noticed there was no mention of distillation. so flavor would be aquired through the maseration process rather than the distillation.
that solves that question.

Crap! For the love of God! That was truly a sign that I need to a) be checked out for dyslexia, b) need new eyeglasses, and c) need to slow down. It is more of b and c than anything else!!


Violentblue
I wish that was my recipe! Please don’t forget that recipe is for a macerated liqueur. If I were in your place I’d add my favorite Gin botanicals as well as what’s on the list. I wish you Good Luck!


Stabby
I hope that some of the information is useful. Yes, I do agree about the use of wood types to impart flavors and the degree or char!! There are a slew of other woods used for cask aging (and fermenting) in Italy and other European countries like acacia, ash, blackberry, cherry, chestnut, cypress, juniper, mulberry, and pine. This is in addition to French oak (Q. petraea), American oak (Q. alba), and the wide variety of oak imported into Italy or produced within the country Q. robur., Q.Ilex., and others. Certainly some form of one of these woods would give the desired effect. One would think. The problem with oak in Italy is that a lot of it has been deforested. A good portion of Italy is still rural to very rural. Timber is the most common source for heating, cooking, roof/ ceiling timbers (in the restoration of older homes), and charcoal making. Oak burns long and hot, hence its popularity and it’s lacking.

The making of liqueurs is very different from mash/ wash distillation. Especially when a liqueur is only macerated. I’m very sure that my friend is leaving out a good deal of information. I am most certain that he is using a warm or hot maceration process to fully extract the flavor from the nuts. Hence the need to clean up the oil in the processing, rather than using an emulsifier to bind it to the water in the finished product. If he were distilling his macerated base, a good deal of the oil would be left behind along with the flavor of the nuts. Hazelnuts are very hard to work with, as they are over 50% fat. The shells have some flavor, but need to be toasted slightly. I have done this with Grappa and shell fragments. They did acquire some of the nut taste. This test was done with several half-pint jars. The jars that had the shells in them the longest had a pronounced flavor but were bitter and required the addition of sugar, pushing the Grappa from a higher quality non- sugared Aromatized to a sugared Aromatized Grappa. Not that it was inferior quality, but it was harsh and is bottle aging to temper it some. The other jars, which were lighter in flavor, were fit for immediate consumption. The flavor was very light, the color was amber, and yes we drank it all!

With regards to liqueurs from my general area of Italy one rule applies: K.I.S.S.
Keep It Simple Stupid! Many of the liqueurs are macerated for a set period and then usually strained through linen or muslin, to squeeze out every drop of goodness. The liquid is left to rest again. It is racked sometimes another round of filtering, this time usually through paper, then bottled and left to age.

I still feel like a horses ass about my mistake! I just had the image of a pot still and a loaded gin head in my mind the entire time; I guess, subconsciously, the word RUM got overlooked. Duh!!

I promise to stay out of this post unless I have information that pertains to HAZELNUT RUM only, LOL. Thanks for pointing out my blatant error and the moderator can delete these posts if they want. I take no offense at it in the slightest.


Gin is great,
Rum sounds nice,
Whatever it is, pour me one
Cuz I think I need it!

EuroStiller- The Doctor

EuroStiller wrote:Yes, I do agree about the use of wood types to impart flavors and the degree or char!! There are a slew of other woods used for cask aging (and fermenting) in Italy and other European countries like acacia, ash, blackberry, cherry, chestnut, cypress, juniper, mulberry, and pine. This is in addition to French oak (Q. petraea), American oak (Q. alba), and the wide variety of oak imported into Italy or produced within the country Q. robur., Q.Ilex., and others. Certainly some form of one of these woods would give the desired effect. One would think. The problem with oak in Italy is that a lot of it has been deforested. A good portion of Italy is still rural to very rural. Timber is the most common source for heating, cooking, roof/ ceiling timbers (in the restoration of older homes), and charcoal making. Oak burns long and hot, hence its popularity and it’s lacking.

I have been searching for a cooperage that will make barrels out of fruit wood for me, but everyone I speak to says that such a thing isn't done.
around here you have a choice between natural, toasted or charred white oak, and thats it.

I'm going to have to lean some basic cooperage skills and make my own.

Violentblue

Depending on where you live, there are still alot of cooperage schools in the US!! I've had to fix a few of my own casks over the years and have learned alot. The staves are the worst part. The sides have to be beveled then fitted into place by steaming the wood. And you have to work fast with the hoops once you get that stave back in! In Italy, and I am sure elsewhere, people are going to the Inox (Stainless Steel) tanks that have plastic liners. Then they just add the wood chips. Damn shame if you ask me!! Put that is progress for ya! I have been told by the coopers that I buy casks from in Italy that it takes a nearly a lifetime to learn the trade, and the skills are passed down within the families. Alot of times from harvesting to sale. Generally, the less common used woods are not made into large casks. Have a look into the way balsamic vinegar is made. Many use alot of these woods, waxed and un-waxed, charred, and un- charred. If you go abroad you can always Fed Ex a nice little something back to the States. Just don’t forget to give her some air- holes so she can breathe, LOL. Bad joke. But seriously, if push does come to shove, you may have to result to wood chips/ blocks of these non-standard cured woods and hardwoods. OH fudge! I just remembered the other little barrels we have. We have 2 small barrels (5 L) each, made of Pernambuco that are at least 100 years old. Pernambuco is now only used to make violin bows and is an endangered species, but we do age grappa in it. It comes out with a red color (from the wood), it is sweet, pungent, and still like when the cask were new.

Even the price and availability of glass carboys are beginning to increase at a ridiculous rate! Sad, plastic world we are moving into. Planned obsolescence for ya!!


EuroStiller- The Doctor

Violentblue

This is one of the companies that I have done business with that I can direct you to. They will pretty much custom make what ever you want. They have Barili, (Fruitwood barrels), and Barili/ Fusti (Primarily oak, but they will do other woods upon request). The website is:
http://www.renziartigianobottaio.com/
Then you can click on the flag for English, unless you can read Italian, then products.
I know you were looking for something closer to home, but these guys are great and they do great work! Just be sure that when you place your order, you give all the specifics that you want. Char or no char, and if so to what degree. Waxed or un- waxed. They will ask you too, so don’t worry. I will try to get some more makers for you before I leave. Hopefully, I can find one in the States that will do it for ya. If not, you know what to ask Santa for this year!

EuroStiller- The Doctor

EuroStiller wrote: Crap! For the love of God! That was truly a sign that I need to a) be checked out for dyslexia, b) need new eyeglasses, and c) need to slow down. It is more of b and c than anything else!! ... I still feel like a horses ass about my mistake!
EuroStiller- The Doctor

Like I said recently ES, we all make mistakes.

Hi Violentblue,
I was trying to find casks made from fruit trees here in France... Apparently most fruit woods are no good for cask making because they allow too much to leak through the walls. I'm just going to use oak casks that are old enough to have lost most of their oakiness and to add applewood chips.
phanmo

phanmo wrote:Hi Violentblue,
I was trying to find casks made from fruit trees here in France... Apparently most fruit woods are no good for cask making because they allow too much to leak through the walls. I'm just going to use oak casks that are old enough to have lost most of their oakiness and to add applewood chips.
phanmo

thanks for the info, good to know that that particular avenue isn't worth persuing.
I think for the ime being I'll be aging in glass with wood added, I really don't produce enought to fill a kask anyway.

Neither do I really, but I got my hands on a little 15l cask and 20 kilos of organic barley so I might give a single malt scotch a go. Alternatively, I make a fair lot of apple brandy so I might try a properly aged Calvados.
Cheers

Are you refering to Rogue Distillery? Did you notice how much plastic they use? They collect off the still into a 5gal plastic pale then dump that into a 55gal plastic barrel ....Obviously not members of this forum... at least at the time of filming.

I would suggest toasting the hazel nuts to intensify the flavor. Rough chop and then put them into the oven at 275 for 30 min. or so, stirring every 10 min. You might try adding them to your liquor while they are still hot. If you don't get enough flavor through maceration, then try adding them to the still.

always have hazelnuts at christmas, als going to do a batch or two of pugirum, we'll see how the two work together.

I don't Know if you would want to make hazel nut rum this way or not. but at our local Kroger grocery store on the coffee isle they have DA-Vinci Gourmet Hazel-nut syrup flavoring for coffee.

I have not tried Hazel Nut, but love the caramel, vanilla, pumpkin pie, and a few other flavors they offer.
It is sold in 750 ml bottles

You might get more info here. DaVinci Gourmet LLC
Seattle WA 98108.

I take 750 ml of sugar distillate,. and add the caramel flavor to taste. So far it has been a hit with everyone that has tried it.
My general mix is 750ml plus 10oz of caramel. works great. use different measures for your taste.