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Very new distiller here, have a 1 gallon pressure cooker pot still setup and the condenser is 1/4 inch copper. At first the condenser was way too long so I shortened it. My distillate has been coming off around 45% abv using some leftover homemade wine. I have ice water or very cold to the touch water in the bucket.

Is there anything that running too cold or too long of a condenser will do to negatively impact the run?

Any simple or complex answer is fine just looking for a general guideline as this is just a practice still before jumping into this full force.

It's fine provided you don't have any huffing or puffing going on
If it was a reflux condenser, then your best off running them close to the edge, over cooling the reflux wastes energy and can affect column stability

ok thanks I shortened it and I think I can shorten even more. even after a few hours the bucket of water is still pretty cool so I think im on the right track.

Your biggest worry should be the pressure cooker with it's ability to hold dangerous amounts of pressure and has seals that may well be 'food grade', but are not resistant to the hot solvents present in distillation.

It doesn't take a large object to block a 1/4" tube and turn a pressure cooker into a bomb, so upgrade to something safer very quickly.

Don't use iced water. I can't remember the exact reason but it's not so good for the vapors to be knocked down. The cooling has to go in a progressive way. Do a searchon the forum and you will findit for sure.

My first still was also a pressure cooker. Like NZ Chris said the seal is NOT resistant against the solvent. I wrapped the seals completely with tpfe tape. And replace it in the lid. Just be extra careful for leaks as the seal would be a bit bigger. You can use vise grip to make the lid tight again if necessary.

Have fun!

I guess you have a copper worm .
You would be better off with a shorter larger diameter condenser . As mentioned 1/4” is way to small . It is too easy to block up . Also the internal bore will have a very high vapour speed .

If possible switch , to a 1/2” worm . Least likely to block up . Also , on a pressure cooker size still on a hot plate , you would barely need more than a meter long ... however you will find most worms are a lot longer . . Use annealed copper , it bends easy . .

The ideal is to have your flake stand ; the bucket of water the cool is in , as tall as possible so the coil is long . Feed cool water into the bottom of the bucket very slowly ... so slowly that the water overflowing ( into a drain pipe) is almost too hot to the touch .

This creates a temperature gradient so that the hot alcohol vapour entering the top of the worm meets hot ( but cooler than it is ) water . The further it goes down the worm it gets progressively cooler .

The purpose is to slowly condense the vapour.

If yoy have a flake stand full of ice cold water ... or even just typical winters day ambient temp water , when the vapour hits the cold worm , it suddenly condenses, which causes sudden pressure changes in the worm sucking a gust of air in the end and up the coil . Once it has stabilised , more vapour arrives and the cycle repeats . We get huffing and erratic behavour like spurting out the spout .

IMO it won’t effect your booze but the still just runs shit house .

some bloke made a video to demonstrate huffing on their pot still

Great video kimbo. Excellent training. Thanks for sharing.
ss

NZChris wrote: ↑Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:33 pm It doesn't take a large object to block a 1/4" tube and turn a pressure cooker into a bomb, so upgrade to something safer very quickly.

I agree regarding the gasket.

Regarding safety, I don't know which pressure cooker the OP has but all pressure cookers here in Italy have a second safety valve, which is a breakable piece of plastic in the lid. If the main pressure valve gets clogged, and pressure mounts inside the pot, the moment arrives when the plastic plug inevitably breaks releasing the pressure.

This is the same logic that lead engineers of locomotive steam engines to place a lead plug in the engine. When the engine overheats, the lead - which has a low fusion point - melts and the water is discharged and the engine stops. It's a sort of ciruit breaker which works on physical properties and therefore cannot malfunction.

This makes a pressure cooker which has this safety mechanism actually safer than an ordinary still. Pieces of fruit debris can clog a still in a very powerful way.

In my still kettle I have a 0,5 bar valve on the lid, but certainly a pressure cooker is better made because the plastic plug cannot fail, it is certain that it will break at a certain pressure.

This is the lid of my pressure cooker. The round black plastic thing is the safety valve.

still_stirrin wrote: ↑Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:22 am Great video kimbo. Excellent training. Thanks for sharing.
ss

Just for the record, I did not make this excellent video, another member of this forum did, it is up to that person if they want to own up to making the video.

Classic stuff in the video. As the still operator unhooks the condenser hot/out and practically scalding water sprays out, he offers up a most appropriate safety disclaimer in language we all understand:

"Don't troi this at hime... you'll burn your fuckin' hand..!"

Twisted Brick wrote: ↑Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:38 pm Classic stuff in the video. As the still operator unhooks the condenser hot/out and practically scalding water sprays out, he offers up a most appropriate safety disclaimer in language we all understand:

"Don't troi this at hime... you'll burn your fuckin' hand..!"

I tried my best Twisted , but my voice over really sucks

Trust you to find that Kimbo .

Blow through your condenser before you start.
It wouldn't be the first time a wasp has set up a nest in one or an insect has died there.
Very dangerous.

Geoff

Yummyrum wrote: ↑Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:07 pm
I tried my best Twisted , but my voice over really sucks

No way! Your commentary rocks.... I loved the entire video. It's just the way you said it, had me laughing my ass off! (Been there! )

Thanks for taking the time. We need more like this.

Id forgotten about that old video ...where has it been hiding ? I like the shaped end on your condenser Yummy, very nice.

Birrofilo wrote: ↑Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:02 am

NZChris wrote: ↑Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:33 pm It doesn't take a large object to block a 1/4" tube and turn a pressure cooker into a bomb, so upgrade to something safer very quickly.

I agree regarding the gasket.

Regarding safety, I don't know which pressure cooker the OP has but all pressure cookers here in Italy have a second safety valve, which is a breakable piece of plastic in the lid. If the main pressure valve gets clogged, and pressure mounts inside the pot, the moment arrives when the plastic plug inevitably breaks releasing the pressure.

This is the same logic that lead engineers of locomotive steam engines to place a lead plug in the engine. When the engine overheats, the lead - which has a low fusion point - melts and the water is discharged and the engine stops. It's a sort of ciruit breaker which works on physical properties and therefore cannot malfunction.

This makes a pressure cooker which has this safety mechanism actually safer than an ordinary still. Pieces of fruit debris can clog a still in a very powerful way.

In my still kettle I have a 0,5 bar valve on the lid, but certainly a pressure cooker is better made because the plastic plug cannot fail, it is certain that it will break at a certain pressure.

This is the lid of my pressure cooker. The round black plastic thing is the safety valve.

DSC_0026.JPG

A still isn't a steam vessel. it's charged with fuel.

I don't know if you've ever been in a kitchen when a 'safety' has blown out of a pressure cooker, but it's dangerous enough already without the discharge being flammable. They don't stop discharging superheated liquid and vapor until the pressure reaches atmospheric and that takes quite a while. You wouldn't want to be standing in the wrong place. I was lucky both times and didn't get burnt. It was on a kerosene burner, so if it had been charged with likker rather than dinner, it could have escalated real quick.

Yes, the pressure pot will discharge, before exploding, a lot of very hot vapour which, in the case of a still, is alcoholic and therefore flammable.

My point is that such an event is preferable to an explosion of the pot, or the still. And that many stills don't have safety valves, so they can actually explode, while a decent pressure cooker positively cannot explode, and will "only" discharge hot and flammable vapour

That said, I am not distilling now because I have a rule that the window in the room must be full open. An explosion is dangerous also if the windows is open, a vapour discharge is dangerous if one is nearby (the heat) or if the window is closed (the concentration of alcoholic vapour).

All summed up, I would not feel less safe with a still made with a properly made pressure cooker than with an ordinary still. Actually I consider a pressure cooker safer than my kettle, and my kettle (which has to a pressure release valve) safer than most stills, which typically sport very expensive copper, plate windows etc. and lack a pressure gauge or a pressure release valve.
And I would not feel safe to distill in a confined environment as well, because stuff happens!

Birrofilo wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:52 pm Yes, the pressure pot will discharge, before exploding, a lot of very hot vapour which, in the case of a still, is alcoholic and therefore flammable.

My point is that such an event is preferable to an explosion of the pot, or the still. And that many stills don't have safety valves, so they can actually explode, while a decent pressure cooker positively cannot explode, and will "only" discharge hot and flammable vapour

That said, I am not distilling now because I have a rule that the window in the room must be full open. An explosion is dangerous also if the windows is open, a vapour discharge is dangerous if one is nearby (the heat) or if the window is closed (the concentration of alcoholic vapour).

All summed up, I would not feel less safe with a still made with a properly made pressure cooker than with an ordinary still. Actually I consider a pressure cooker safer than my kettle, and my kettle (which has to a pressure release valve) safer than most stills, which typically sport very expensive copper, plate windows etc. and lack a pressure gauge or a pressure release valve.
And I would not feel safe to distill in a confined environment as well, because stuff happens!

A pressure switch cutting the heat to the boiler will keep you safe better than any pressure relief valve on any vessel that is designed to contain pressure rather than leak or pop the lid off if it goes over pressure.

Also, there is no guarantee that a newbie with no experience and a pressure cooker isn't going to use the hole for the 'safety' valve for something else.

I agree, but for what I see most still don't have a relief valve, don't have a pressure gauge, and don't have a pressure switch cutting the heat to the boiler. The pressure cooker is safer than the ordinary still. The ordinary still has no safety measures against pressure, the pressure cooker has two (the pressure release valve, and the pressure plug).

In a pressure cooker, the hole for the safety valve is not a hole. You have to "break the plug" in order to exploit the hole. Such a person would certainly be dangerous to himself in many other ways

Thanks for the responses, I upgraded to a 8gal milehi still so I dont have to worry about this crap anymore and thanks for the responses they helped push me to buying a legit still quicker.

Side note Im just thankful nobody cursed me out and pasted the link to the newbie section lol... seems to be a somewhat normal a-hole type response on here lol.

Cheers and thanks for the recommendations lots of great knowledge on this site for sure!

Thebigbrewbowski wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:34 pm Side note Im just thankful nobody cursed me out and pasted the link to the newbie section lol... seems to be a somewhat normal a-hole type response on here lol.

That used to be a problem here at one stage . We are trying our best to reduce that old culture .

Appling CPR on this subject.
Is huffing the only issue with a long cold condenser?
If it's not huffing then its not to cold???
My 12" liebig goes into a worm inside of a swamp cooler. One pump serving the 12" liebig leaving the thumper going into the worm liebig inside the swamp cooler and water exiting liebig goes threw swamp cooler spider down the pads on the sides being cooled and starting all over. Major over kill but recycling the water. I turn on the swamp coolers fan when I switch to tails so I can run the still wide open to finish fast.
What are the effect on the spirits? Warm condenser vs Cold condenser?
Where can I find more info on condenser temp?
Does anyone do temperature holds or pause the still temp for a period of time while warming up or anytime during distilling?
Any info is helpful as long as Your not cussing me out. lol
Thanks

kimbodious wrote: ↑Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:49 am some bloke made a video to demonstrate huffing on their pot still

If You turned the heat up or down on the still would you get the same results as turning the water up and down?
Thanks

Runt wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:03 pm

kimbodious wrote: ↑Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:49 am some bloke made a video to demonstrate huffing on their pot still

If You turned the heat up or down on the still would you get the same results as turning the water up and down?
Thanks

Deleting this post for fear of causing confusion.

I didn't realize the video was of a column. But I would still think if he turned the heat down when it was huffing it would stop huffing and smooth out just like when he turned the water down?
So a condenser from a column can be to cold?
Can a condenser from a pot still with a thumper be to cold?
Thanks

Ignore that last post, I was ate up. I shouldn't have brought up columns at all that's just confusing.

Let's talk about what is happening here from a physics stand point.

Remember when steam turns to water it contracts to about 1/1600 of the steams volume. So when he rapidly cools a void is created, aka a vacuum. The vacuum gets filled by both ends of the condenser, that means an influx of hot vapor on the boiler side. In simple terms the condenser partly fills with hot vapor, heats up, rapidly cools, creates a vacuum, cycle continues.

What we see is what he is calling "huffing", spurting, whatever... it is violent and not controlled rather than a nice smooth trickle. By returning the condenser flow to a lower rate he is restoring the gradient, the heat (vapor) input from the boiler now better matches the cooling input from the water flow, so no vacuum is generated. Pay attention to how he is describing what his hands are feeling, you should be routinely checking temps with your hands during a run, its a valuable skill.

He is doing a stripping run, which means he is (hopefully) already at max heat output. So no more heat can be added. If he takes away heat the problem will get worse, at least to a point, where the production essentially stops. If he was on a spirit run where he was using a fraction of his output heat its possible to stop huffing that way, but it compromises the spirit, and the adjustments are comparatively slow. You need to adjust your coolant for the boiler side (vapor) production.

A condenser can't really be too cold, we can't freeze alcohol with cool water, but as he demonstrated it can be operated poorly. You are much better off to have too much condenser than not enough. It is easier to control an oversized condenser, less fiddly, more overhead.

Thumper is no different, the output from the thumper is "essentially" the same as the output from the boiler.


A final edit: What this all boils down to is matching your coolant flow to the vapor being produced by the still.
Use the heat input to the still to control the distillate take off rate
Use the coolant flow (valve) in the condenser to balance the vapor production.

I apologize for the confusion.

When ethanol vapor comes out of the product end it's too hot - a bit more water flow and you can feel the cool move up the length of the PC. If the PC is longer you can cool the product down more at exit but a gentle approach is ideal.

Cheers!
-jb

Nicely explained Ben .

And just too clarify , the guy in that video was not using a column still , it was a pot still with 2” x 1/2metre Riser . The Liebig was 1” over 3/4” x 5.5’ long