Keg heating element placement and welding technique

[Big L]

Hi All,

Having a fabricators weld 2" ferrules to my SS keg for triclamp heating elements and am wondering:

1. How close to the bottom ridge of the keg can i get- is closer than in the picture possible? I Want to be able to do runs with as little in as possible so have the minimum fill volume (there will also be a second element at a right angle to the first and higher up for stripping runs).

2. Is purging necessary when welding? There are two local places that can do the welding, one that has said company policies means they've got to purge (they do welding for brewers) as its going to come into contact with food/drink stuffs. The other place hasn't mentioned anything and I dont think are bothered.

3. I want to put a drain valve on the keg too.. I have plenty of 2" ferrules and an endcap for them so could just use that till a valve arrives. But am thinking maybe a 2" drain is a little overkill for this. So wondering if any advice on this? Also whether I should get a butterly/ball valve. I would wait for a smaller ferrule to arrive but want to get the welding done now and dont fancy having to do the cleaning runs twice just to have a valve added

Thanks all.

[still_stirrin]

Hi All,

Having a fabricators weld 2" ferrules to my SS keg for triclamp heating elements and am wondering:

1. How close to the bottom ridge of the keg can i get- is closer than in the picture possible? I Want to be able to do runs with as little in as possible so have the minimum fill volume (there will also be a second element at a right angle to the first and higher up for stripping runs).<— You could move up above the lower head radius, but stay as close as possible.

2. Is purging necessary when welding? Yes, you should purge the air/oxygen.

There are two local places that can do the welding, one that has said company policies means they've got to purge (they do welding for brewers) as its going to come into contact with food/drink stuffs.<— This is the place I would go for a sanitary weld. It’ll cost more, but you’ll get a quality weld. The other place hasn't mentioned anything and I dont think are bothered.

3. I want to put a drain valve on the keg too.. I have plenty of 2" ferrules and an endcap for them so could just use that till a valve arrives. But am thinking maybe a 2" drain is a little overkill for this. So wondering if any advice on this? <— 2” is overkill, but I wouldn’t go smaller than 1”, especially if you’ll have some solids in the boiler. Mine has 3/4” drain and I wish it was 1”. I suggest using the keg spear and flush welding it to the bottom and route it through the skirt and putting a 1” T/C ferrule outside the skirt. Also whether I should get a butterly/ball valve. I would wait for a smaller ferrule to arrive but want to get the welding done now and dont fancy having to do the cleaning runs twice just to have a valve added.

Patience, man. Don’t get hasty...do it right...you’ll be glad you do.
ss

[pope]

It'll be way cheaper to do it right than to rush it. Purge for sure, and 2" isn't too big just get a reducer if you have a smaller fitting. Yes TC fittings are a little pricey but you only buy them once, and the difference between 1/1.5" parts and 2" parts isn't that big of a gap.

If you go to the other welders, insist on a purge and get them to do 5-6x the volume of the keg, 15.5 gal is roughly 2 cu ft, a 5x purge is 10 cf, at 5 cfh flow it'll take 2 hours to purge it fully. Fast purges will introduce turbulence and may reduce the quality of the purge. 5-6x might be overkill and 5 cfh might be too, I'm not a pro but my welds are decent, maybe a pro will chime in.

You can get PTFE packed ball valves but butterfly valves are usually silicone, viton, or epdm (or something like that) never seen them with ptfe - probably because of the mechanics of a butterfly valve you'd never get a seal with ptfe.

[pope]

Also going that low on the keg will be fine but you will need to shape the ferrule to the curve of the keg first, otherwise your element will slope upward into the keg. IMO welders weld, they won't see what you're trying to do and change it for you, they'll just stick the ferrule on the keg.

[Big L]

I suggest using the keg spear and flush welding it to the bottom and route it through the skirt and putting a 1” T/C ferrule outside the skirt.

Thanks for the answers!

Do you have any pictures or further elaborations on this? Is this picture what you mean? i cant really see it working and the keg spike has a 0.75" diameter so seems counterproductive adding a large valve the other end? I am probably not understanding though

I was also wondering if i dont decide to put it on the bottom and just go for a side valve, can i use the top of the keg without welding another ferrule onto it? It seems to fit pretty well with my triclamp and another ferrule - just wondering as there is no grove for the ridge of the gasket


Thanks pope too for that answer really helpful will have a look at reducers

[still_stirrin]

For the Sanke outlet common to your T/C ferrule, just sand the bead off of the teflon gasket. I put 120 grit sandpaper on a flat surface and hold the gasket with the ferrule, slowly sliding it back and forth. The bead will sand off and you’ll have a flat surface on the gasket to match the keg fitting.

For the spear drain, you’ll have to trim it to contour to the bottom head. And you’ll need to drill a hole in the skirt to pass the spear through. And finally, you’ll have to drill a drain hole, or more appropriately, a slot in the keg bottom where the spear pipe will fit. Then, you can have your welding contractor weld it in place to the bottom surface as well as the skirt penetration. The spear will fit a 1” T/C ferrule very nicely too. So, you’ll want to order one asap so your welder can weld it on the spear too.
ss

[HomerD]

I put a 4” triclamp on the top of my keg. It helps with filling and cleaning. I just use a concentric reducer to change it to what ever size still head I want to run.

[zapata]

If you're paying for sanitary welding, definitely flip it upside down, use the existing 2" as your drain and weld at least a 4" in the top. Parts are cheap compared to quality welds, and a larger opening is fantastic for cleaning and future proof if you get a bigger still. Also have him weld some nuts to the bottom to screw in some legs so your drain can clear and to keep it up off the floor.

That said, I would be remiss if I didn't suggest you can make whatever mods you want yourself. SS can be soldered with results as good as most welders (far better than any I have locally). Brewhardware has fittings designed for solder that are either contour cut for the sidewall or that install through a dimple, and dimple pulling tools. Not as "easy" as dropping off at a welder, but my local guys take months for small jobs, and do a shit job anyway.

Also, my kegs don't have bottom drains, just side drains. With a pick up tube they are fine. Leaves a dash for me to have to dump out, but, yeah, it's fine. Bottom drain would be better for sure.

[The Baker]

I put a 4” triclamp on the top of my keg. It helps with filling and cleaning. I just use a concentric reducer to change it to what ever size still head I want to run.

Turn the keg over, use the existing 2" fitting to locate your drain, put the 4" triclamp on the top (which used to be the bottom.

Geoff

[HomerD]

I put a 4” triclamp on the top of my keg. It helps with filling and cleaning. I just use a concentric reducer to change it to what ever size still head I want to run.

Turn the keg over, use the existing 2" fitting to locate your drain, put the 4" triclamp on the top (which used to be the bottom.

Geoff

I wish I would have had that idea before I did mine.

[Big L]

For the Sanke outlet common to your T/C ferrule, just sand the bead off of the teflon gasket. I put 120 grit sandpaper on a flat surface and hold the gasket with the ferrule, slowly sliding it back and forth. The bead will sand off and you’ll have a flat surface on the gasket to match the keg fitting.

For the spear drain, you’ll have to trim it to contour to the bottom head. And you’ll need to drill a hole in the skirt to pass the spear through. And finally, you’ll have to drill a drain hole, or more appropriately, a slot in the keg bottom where the spear pipe will fit. Then, you can have your welding contractor weld it in place to the bottom surface as well as the skirt penetration. The spear will fit a 1” T/C ferrule very nicely too. So, you’ll want to order one asap so your welder can weld it on the spear too.
ss

Is this what you mean? Just to confirm before i go away and do it sorry again if it should be obvious. The sanke outlet is then sealed with the endcap and teflon gasket as you've described?

"you’ll have to drill a drain hole"

"The spear will fit a 1” T/C ferrule very nicely too"

"you’ll have to trim it to contour to the bottom head"

[NineInchNails]

For a 1" drain, I just weld a 1" stainless steel coupling as low as possible on the side of the keg. On the inside I use 1" copper fittings and 1" copper pipe routed down the the center, lowest part of the bottom of the keg. On the outside, I use a 1" stainless close nipple & 1" brass ball valve. Most of the time when I'm draining the keg, I have a hose connected to the valve. Whether it is a short or long hose it will drain & siphon the keg all the way down to the bottom just as fast as any other type of drain. Maybe there's an ounce or so remaining ... I don't care. I prefer to keep my kegs upright in the manor they were intended because I like to use the carry handles.

The only hick-up with this type of drain is that if you begin filling it with water for instance ... it will NOT begin draining until the water level reaches the height of the halve. Once it reaches the height of the valve it will begin siphon and drain very fast.