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first ferment, a sugar wash, Red Star Premier Cuvee?

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:57 pm
by distill58
I'm following the McCone protocol that's in Tony's site. I've kept the Ph between 3.4-4.0 aerated heavily for 1st 2 days, and added sugar after it gets to about 4 brix until it's back at 10 brix (started at about 20-21 brix) I used Red Star's Premier Cuvee, which I understand is a copy of Ec 1118, sac. bayanus Formerly known as Prise de Mousse. I added 10 gm. Fermaid, and I started a starter with the 10 gm. Premier Cuvee, added 1-1/3 gm. DAP (with 2 more additions of 1-1/3 gm. DAP over the 1st 4 days), I have 3-5 gallon fermentation buckets that I started a different times. The first batch is at SG of 1014 now. I've added a total 5.8 kg. to a total of 4.5 gallons, and Tony's site calculator (for yield) says it's got a potential alcohol of 19%. It's been 3 weeks since I started it, with a total of 3 additions of sugar. It hasn't changed for the last 5 days basically, although I can see a little activity (some bubbles).
Batch #2 has had the same treatment (except I used about 1/2 gallon of fermenting batch #1 instead of starting from scratch). I've made 2 additions of sugar for a total of 5.3 kg and I'm seeing a potential of between 17.3 and 17.4% if it completes to dryness). It hasn't changed in 3 days, although I can see it's bubbling slightly more than batch #1.
Batch #3 has had the least amount of sugar added, total of one addition of sugar for 4.6 kg with potential alcohol of between 13-14% if it completes to dryness. It's actually bubbling steadily and the sg has gone down daily, it's now at 1012 balling 3.
I'm just wondering if my first two batches are 'stuck' and if I should add more sugar to my 3rd batch seeing how the first two batches aren't doing anything now (anything much that is)
I kept a pretty good eye on the ph and tempature, although it did go to ph 2.6 (batch #2) for a short period, but I added potassium carbonate to get it back up to the 3.4-4.0 range.
Is this Premier Cuvee basically the same as Lavlin ec-1118? Is there anything that anybody is seeing that I'm doing wrong? I expected to get around 18% alcohol, and to get it in a shorter amount of time than it's taken.

Re: first ferment, a sugar wash, Red Star Premier Cuvee?

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:24 pm
by Hawke
If this is for drinking, you are pushing the first two batches way too hard. Most of us shoot for no more than a 12% finish. Makes for a cleaner final product without having to resort to carbon filtering and all the other BS steps involved.

Re: first ferment, a sugar wash, Red Star Premier Cuvee?

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:37 pm
by distill58
Really, only 12%? I guess that I'll definitely have to get a stripper going then.
What about neutral spirits-is that a higher ABV?
Is there some type of diabetic test you can easily (and cheaply) use to see if the wash is 'to dryness' or is just stuck? Shouldn't my TG be under 1.000?
Thanks for the info--

Re: first ferment, a sugar wash, Red Star Premier Cuvee?

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:48 pm
by Hawke
Most here shoot for a start of 1.09 and finish around .990 - .995
Neutral spirits is anything without taste. Can be made from any type of mash or wash, but usually from sugar.
Yeast starts to get stressed over 12% and starts dying off at 14%. Turbo yeasts have been cultivated to take the strongest of the strain to achieve the high % washes. All the DAP, clearing agents and carbon filtering are just extra expense and steps that usually ends up with a product that tastes and smells like paint thinner.

Re: first ferment, a sugar wash, Red Star Premier Cuvee?

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:56 pm
by distill58
So what do you use for a decent tasting inexpensive wash? I heard bakers used worked well (and I used Bokabob's 'supermarket moonshine' that's on his Bokabob page for his mini-still, but I was using the 'Amazing Still' then, and I was amazed that after a long time, and keeping the temperature at between 45 and 50 C, that I had something that was only 20%)
I heard baker's yeast (or I read that) would go to 14%?

Re: first ferment, a sugar wash, Red Star Premier Cuvee?

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 2:39 pm
by Dnderhead
In my opinion you will never git a all sugar wash to taste "good" most is sharp and bite. adding grain helps. if you want high percent alcohol
either use a reflux still or do multiple runs.

Re: first ferment, a sugar wash, Red Star Premier Cuvee?

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:43 pm
by trthskr4
I would think potatoes would make a better, less harsh vodka than pure sugar. Some folks push their fruit washes up to 14% but beyond that is countering the point of the handcrafted, better than top shelf commercial stuff.